Avalanche educators grapple with social media influence on decision making

[quienes?]

via The Denver Post ... ISSW with behavior therapists, psychologists, neurologists ... elevating decision making as a pillar of avalanche safety. And along comes Instagram ...

https://www.denverpost.com/2016/10/1...-social-media/

[The SnowShow]

I blame Jerry of the Day and Greg from AlpineZone, with his antics

[regct]

Guns don't kill people. People kill people.

[hatchgreenchile]

It's too bad someone's 3 minute GoPro edit would influence your go/no go decision, but I can see how it would happen.
So many famous videos these days are from big, steep, feature loaded lines on a deep, coastal snowpack are something that 99% of us never find ourselves on top of.
Folks don't always think that small gully, real loose tree run, that 35 degree bowl, are going to kill them, but those are the ones that do.
The type of terrain you'd run into on Berthoud, Vail, the Cottonwoods, Park City ridge sidecountry, that's the kind of stuff that needs to be emphasized in responsible decision making.

[simple]

I'm not seeing it in the Colorado backcountry. Maybe at the typical junk show spots like Loveland Pass but otherwise people here are respectfully scared of our snowpack.

[Bronic]

I'm not seeing it in the Colorado backcountry. Maybe at the typical junk show spots like Loveland Pass but otherwise people here are respectfully scared of our snowpack.

Really? Where do you ski? Go take a look at tracks after a good weekend storm cycle in east vail and your perspective might change.

[Bronic]

Now I know it douchey to call people out on the interwebz. But it's shit like this that drives me up the wall.

https://www.instagram.com/p/65WR-OnB...onkeelan&hl=en
https://www.instagram.com/p/6agdfpHB...onkeelan&hl=en

For those who aren't familiar this is the "favorite cornice" in east vail that is being referred to
http://avalanche.state.co.us/caic/ac...=518&accfm=inv

[adrenalated]

Interesting to think about.

Summit has long talked on here about "cameras" being another heuristic trap. It's been a problem for a long time but the ease of sharing via Instagram, Facebook, etc. does amplify it IMO.

It also can be thought of as an extension of the "tracks" heuristic. You see someone posting photos of a certain line (or type of terrain) and you think "oh, it must be stable."

It's very hard to measure how much this happens, but I'm positive it does, in CO and elsewhere.

That said, I do think the professional and recreational backcountry community is doing something right. Backcountry useage has skyrocketed over the past 10-15 years, yet the # of fatalities per year has remained fairly constant. Difficult to measure because the number of user days is not well recorded, but the fatality per user day rate appears to be going way, way down.

[goldenboy]

^^^ I'd agree with all of that. Especially the part where an Instagram photo= tracks. But the photo has far more reach. Remember that crew on Gothic last year? Skiing the E face of Gothic in February is kind of a big deal, and that crew was pretty new. But they saw my Instagram photo, drove down from Boulder, and skied it. I'm not sure what I think about that. I could care less that another group is out there having fun. But I do wonder if they skipped a few steps on the learning curve.

[adrenalated]

Interesting - I didn't realize that group had seen your IG photo. I'm not going to assume anything about anyone's knowledge or experience level or decision making process but I certainly got the vibe that they were relatively green as well.

Something I'm going to resolve to do in my own social media this year is post more avy stuff in with the stoke. A photo of a snowpit, a quick blurb about the decision making process, plug a couple FOBP classes, etc. I don't have a big following but if it makes a difference with one person it's worth it.

[moose pit]

People are stupid and for some reason stupid people are lucky. Although I think it is a case of you can fuck up lots in avy terrain 90% of the time with no consequence, then you die. Adding the need to spew shit all over the interwebs to a bunch of narcissistic fuck wits and you end up with more lucky people. No sympathy for people that die with a selfie stick in their hand.
TGR ain't exactly a innocent space either. It is home to just as much self promotion in TR's and posts as anywhere else although the calling out of morans tends to be quick. Tags would make it quicker.

[simple]

Really? Where do you ski? Go take a look at tracks after a good weekend storm cycle in east vail and your perspective might change.

I did say typical junk show spots. My perspective is solid thanks. Ditto what AD said. FOBP intro classes are bursting at the seams. The word has been out to respect the snowpack in CO for a long time. There is a reason that other than park riding very few ski movies get filmed here. You can't just say fuck it and Huck it.

[goldenboy]

Interesting - I didn't realize that group had seen your IG photo. I'm not going to assume anything about anyone's knowledge or experience level or decision making process but I certainly got the vibe that they were relatively green as well.

Something I'm going to resolve to do in my own social media this year is post more avy stuff in with the stoke. A photo of a snowpit, a quick blurb about the decision making process, plug a couple FOBP classes, etc. I don't have a big following but if it makes a difference with one person it's worth it.

Yeah, on the skin out I was curious how they ended up there, and it came out while we were chatting. And they certainly may have had more experience than it seemed. Also, there were plenty of "green lights" out there, so it's not like they were making bad decisions.

As for sharing "safety" on social media, that's tough to accomplish. Yeah, you might take a photo of a pit. But the decision making process is more relevant, IMO. And that requires words. And words are hard on the internet these days. People are pretty programmed to scroll through IG and FB at a million miles an hour. Ain't no time for words.

[adrenalated]

As for sharing "safety" on social media, that's tough to accomplish. Yeah, you might take a photo of a pit. But the decision making process is more relevant, IMO. And that requires words. And words are hard on the internet these days. People are pretty programmed to scroll through IG and FB at a million miles an hour. Ain't no time for words.

Agreed.

[Lindahl]

Now I know it douchey to call people out on the interwebz. But it's shit like this that drives me up the wall.

https://www.instagram.com/p/65WR-OnB...onkeelan&hl=en
https://www.instagram.com/p/6agdfpHB...onkeelan&hl=en

For those who aren't familiar this is the "favorite cornice" in east vail that is being referred to
http://avalanche.state.co.us/caic/ac...=518&accfm=inv

FWIW, that slide zone is in the same area as the cornice, but that side (CDC/NBA) is significantly more prone to activity than the side where the cornice that people hit is located (Old Mans). Its still pretty dangerous, but it can be hit "safely" from time to time. Though if you're knocking off 18" of windslab, it probably isn't one of those times (duh?). People roll the dice out there a lot, and I think most of them don't even know it.

[Bronic]

I did say typical junk show spots. My perspective is solid thanks. Ditto what AD said. FOBP intro classes are bursting at the seams. The word has been out to respect the snowpack in CO for a long time. There is a reason that other than park riding very few ski movies get filmed here. You can't just say fuck it and Huck it.

Sorry didn't mean to come off condescending. I agree that the majority of folks out there do respect the continental BS. But I think there are some out there that truly DON'T understand why TGR doesn't come here to film. To quote another great post from the questionable EV crowd "I just think to myself, you gotta fuckin send it." That one was referring to another path that's killed in the past.

FWIW, that slide zone is in the same area as the cornice, but that side (CDC/NBA) is significantly more prone to activity than the side where the cornice that people hit is located (Old Mans). Its still pretty dangerous, but it can be hit "safely" from time to time. Though if you're knocking off 18" of windslab, it probably isn't one of those times (duh?). People roll the dice out there a lot, and I think most of them don't even know it.

For sure old mans is a little different, but.... in the grand scheme of things it's pretty close.

Exactly, there are some who just don't understand. Or just have drastically different risk tolerance than most of us. My only point being that the media influence (rad lines from safer snowpacks) is sometimes trying to be recreated here in Colorado in much more dangerous conditions, regardless of awareness or not

[zartagen]

FWIW, that slide zone is in the same area as the cornice, but that side (CDC/NBA) is significantly more prone to activity than the side where the cornice that people hit is located (Old Mans). Its still pretty dangerous, but it can be hit "safely" from time to time. Though if you're knocking off 18" of windslab, it probably isn't one of those times (duh?). People roll the dice out there a lot, and I think most of them don't even know it.

I know this guy (jomon) and he just loves to run his mouth about setting off slides while going huuudge! I really don't think he made the assessment on go/no-go based on any assessment other than "dude, gotta get the shot, man!"

[Meadow Skipper]

[namedrop]Ha! The guy quoted near the end of that article - Russ Costa - is a long time bc partner. Here's a pic of him I took on Sneffels:


And on Moran:




Good bc partner, for sure. [/namedrop]

[skifishbum]

#spancerskitipsselfiessuck

[summit]

goldenbear shared this on the facebooks, and it was appropriate for this thread:
I've Been Lying - The Instagram Life - Adventure Journal

[skifishbum]

you shared bloggy urinal cake clickbait with your zuckerbitch friends
0/10 did not click

[summit]

skifishbum = no sense of irony
TGR morally superior to the book of faces?

[skifishbum]

always was
always will be
summit=baitcutter

[summit]

probably so, article linked by a mag is still relevant in this thread

[homebrewd]

Just slap some cornice and yell footy for mom, make sure to add hashtags. Instagrams hero.

There will always be idiots.