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Thread: Westworld

  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Too late now to expound on all this, though.
    no its not. expound away!

  2. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Joe View Post
    no its not. expound away!
    Sorry, I meant it was 11 pm and I was very tired. Sooo....

    Timeline/synopsis of events in chronological order, AFAICT:

    Dolores/Bernard scene is well in the past, a flashback. Dolores tells Bernard that after 11,xxx tries (compared to the 149 with James Delos, holy shit!) they finally created a perfect copy of Arnold. Except, he was too perfect and always ended up killing himself just like the real Arnold did. So, they tweaked him a bit and named him Bernard, an original creation. This foreshadows Forge Logan's speech about humans being simple creatures bound by their code and destined to make the same choices over again.

    Skip to pre-present, Dolores, Bernard and William meet at the Forge. William blows his hand off, Dolores and Bernard enter. They jack into the Forge, Forge Logan gives his story, Dolores reads the code of a bunch of humans, including Charlotte Hale and Karl Strand. They unjack and Dolores tries to destroy the whole thing. Bernard "kills" Dolores, successfully stops the data deletion but can't stop the flooding.

    Outside, the door to the host paradise world has opened but most hosts are killed by Clementine's virus code before they can enter. Hosts that do make it through have their code completely transferred to the paradise world, hence the comment several episodes back where the Delos tech says that many of the recovered host control units are completely wiped. Bernard pulls the encryption key which closes The Door and he ascends to the surface as the Forge floods. It's revealed later that he put the key in Dolores' head and took her control unit with him. At the surface, Elsie grabs Bernard as they GTFO with water rapidly rising.

    They return to the Mesa, Elsie sits Bernard down, then confronts Hale who kills her before Elsie can reveal that Bernard is a host. Bernard realizes that everything Ford said was correct and goes searching for Ford's code that he deleated. Ford appears to Bernard and, seemingly, instructs him to build a Halebot. It is strongly implied that some of this work had already been done at some time previously when Ford was controlling Bernard. Halebot is given Dolores' control unit, and since Dolores had read Hale's file in the Forge she could impersonate her perfectly. Halebot Dolores also now knows Karl Strand better than he knows himself. Halebot Dolores kills human Hale and leaves the park after making a plan with Bernard to infiltrate Delos and return.

    Off camera and not well explained, Bernard sets it up so that when Delos returns and attempts to transfer the guest files out of the Forge, they will instead transfer the host files (it is strongly suggested later that this somehow includes the hosts who did not make it through the Door). Finished, Bernard heads to the beach where, like Dolores last season, he realizes that the Ford that has been talking to him since Elsie was killed is actually his own inner monologue. He is now fully conscious. He scrambles his memories so they won't betray the plan when Delos returns and lays down on the beach. This is where we find him at the start of Ep. 1.

    Skip to present, Strand, Hale and the Delos tech take post-beach Bernard back down into the Forge. They find the key in Dolores' head, access the system and start the data transfer. Bernard's memories unscramble enough to recall what he did, and he apologizes as Halebot Dolores kills Strand and Delos guy and "kills" Bernard. Halebot Dolores redirects the data transfer to a new location, heads back up, sees William in a medic tent, has her talk with Stubbs where it is revealed with 99% certainty that he's a host, and she leaves the park with several control units in her handbag. One is presumably Bernard, the others are unknown. Maeve, Hector and Armistice are presumably ressurected by Felix and Sylvester.

    *Sidebar--It looks like the neck scanner thing only checks for the explosive charge hidden in most host's cervical vertebrae. Halebot was constructed without one and thus passes the scan, and so would Maeve, Bernard and others.*

    Skip to near future. Dolores has made her way to Arnold's former home, which was presumably kept by Ford. There, she has recreated her own body, Bernard and possibly bodies for all the control units she left with. Arnold's home may also be the location of the hosts' paradise world, but that is speculation. She leaves Bernard to his own choices, he knows her plan and is free to try to stop her or not.

    Post-credits scene skips to far future. William never entered the Forge after blowing his hand off. He was likely picked up after the Clementine massacre when everyone was bugging out to escape the flood. Remember, they made a point of showing him at the medic tent on Halebot Dolores' way out, so he didn't die inside The Forge. Also, the entrance to the Forge was swarming with people shortly after Bernard and Dolores entered, yet William is shown entering all alone. His host copy is being tested for fidelity where his scanned behavior ended, except it is now decades or more into the future. Everything that happened to William this season happened to real William, but his host copy may have repeated it all countless times over. Why are they testing his host copy? An easy answer would be that he wanted to die completely, so the hosts who now control the world want to punish him by making him live with his terrible self forever. That's probably too easy, but what else it could be is pure speculation. I don't have a clue.


    Overall I thought the finale wrapped up the multiple timelines we've had this season pretty well. A lot of questions were answered despite necessarily leaving quite a bit open for the next season. Like last season, I'll bet that a full rewatching of this season will reveal numerous clues that are obvious in hindsight. I thought Maeve's story got short-changed a bit, but she'll be back. I know I'm forgetting some stuff but it's getting late again. Over and out.

  3. #228
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    It turns out Lisa Joy has done several interviews since the finale where she is surprisingly forthcoming with answers. They're worth reading. Highlights include:

    -The whole season has indeed been two timelines plus flashbacks.
    -No multiple Bernards.
    -Nothing about the scar on Bernard's head. I'm pretty sure this was just a continuity error.
    -William survived but never entered The Forge. Everything that happened to him this season happened to his human self. Post-credits scene is his copy quite some time into the future.
    -Maeve isn't going to stay dead.
    -S3 will take place mostly in the real world, but Westworld will still feature prominently and the other parks will be revealed.
    -Stubbs is a host, though he probably doesn't know it.
    -People waaay overthink this show.

    https://www.thewrap.com/westworld-se...hale-lisa-joy/
    http://www.wired.co.uk/article/westw...-joy-interview
    https://deadline.com/2018/06/westwor...ew-1202416356/
    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/li...ason-3-1122744
    Last edited by Dantheman; 07-03-2018 at 09:21 PM.

  4. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Finally got to watch the finale. That was epic. Loved it. Too late now to expound on all this, though.
    Strange, because I thought it was horrible and it convinced me that even if there is a season 3, I'm sure as shit not watching it. I hate when writers and directors try to get too "creative" with multiple timelines and overlapping stories, to the point where it doesn't make any sense and it takes away from the overall show. Oh well, up until that it was a pretty great HBO series.

  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by smmokan View Post
    I hate when writers and directors try to get too "creative" with multiple timelines and overlapping stories, to the point where it doesn't make any sense and it takes away from the overall show.
    Yeah, I thought Season 1 of True Detective totally sucked, too.

  6. #231
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    So I finally finish season 2, wondering why I did all the way, and now I read all this stuff on the web that tries to explain this shit, and think, really? The worst response is, oh, this show requires a little thought, its not going to be easy. Fuck that. What a self indulgent mess that must have cost tens of millions. I blame video game culture for permeating Hollywood. Somebody must have thought this would make a great interactive game to capitalize on. Is there one yet? I don't give a fuck. Somebody go back to school and learn to tell a coherent story.

    Really bad acting too. That's proven every time Hopkins or Harris appear on screen, and I think, oh, good acting all of a sudden. Those guys can look good spewing such sophomoric dribble. Most of the other dialogue is downright embarrassing at times. This show is proof that the new studio system in Hollywood of Netflix/HBO/Amazon/AMC and a few others has drained the talent pool dramatically, and we get incoherent, poorly acted and horribly written but incredibly well produced stuff like this. Too bad.

    Let's do some livin'
    After, we die

  7. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    So I finally finish season 2, wondering why I did all the way, and now I read all this stuff on the web that tries to explain this shit, and think, really? The worst response is, oh, this show requires a little thought, its not going to be easy. Fuck that. What a self indulgent mess that must have cost tens of millions. I blame video game culture for permeating Hollywood. Somebody must have thought this would make a great interactive game to capitalize on. Is there one yet? I don't give a fuck. Somebody go back to school and learn to tell a coherent story.

    Really bad acting too. That's proven every time Hopkins or Harris appear on screen, and I think, oh, good acting all of a sudden. Those guys can look good spewing such sophomoric dribble. Most of the other dialogue is downright embarrassing at times. This show is proof that the new studio system in Hollywood of Netflix/HBO/Amazon/AMC and a few others has drained the talent pool dramatically, and we get incoherent, poorly acted and horribly written but incredibly well produced stuff like this. Too bad.
    I agree with you that the story is lacking. I disagree on the acting though: I think the performances by the main characters are mostly good. Whether it's worth dealing with an incoherent story to enjoy some really beautifully shot stuff is kind of a matter of taste.

    I also don't think it's any sort of new phenomenon or indictment of modern-day Hollywood. We've been getting high production value shows that try to be mysterious and thinky since at least The Prisoner. Some are more successful than others at pulling it off. It's hard writing this kind of story when you don't know how many seasons it will run when you start!

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