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Thread: WTF Silverton?

  1. #76
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    Well this whole thing went off the rails quickly....

    The real skiers debate is completely irrelevant. What is relevant is that Silverton originally formed to provide a ski-centered experience to expert skiers. No real estate, no glitz, no glam, no bullshit. Just skiing. It doesn't fucking matter if you're a "real skier" or not; in fact, that was exactly the point of Silverton's original mission. It wasn't about your social status (and let's face it, whether or not you're a "real skier" or a "ski bum" is a form of social status). It was about skiing. Full stop.

    In the past, with a greater variety of guided and unguided skiing available, there were opportunities for many to enjoy the mountain. Expert skiers that had limited financial resources and/or just didn't enjoy the experience of being put in a group with a guide that tells you where to ski and when could buy an unguided ticket on several weekends per year, and rage to their hearts content. Expert skiers that have greater financial resources that preferred to ski the best and softest snow available would find value in paying a knowledgeable person to show them the best snow available on the mountain that day.

    Neither group is wrong. Neither is right. Neither is better than the other, when you're evaluating this from the perspective of "what was the original mission?" The original mission wasn't "hey, let's create a guided experience that will lead reasonably wealthy clients to good snow on steep terrain." It was, "let's make this a haven for good skiers to ski steep soft snow." The current slow elimination of unguided days is enabling the former, not the latter.

    As I've said, I don't blame them. From a business standpoint it makes sense. 100%. But don't try to tell me Silverton is all about the skiing anymore, like it was originally intended to be, because it ain't.

    As for the price: Silverton guided at $120 may very well be a good value, depending on what you're looking for. If you're looking for good terrain, good snow, and a guide, and you can only ski a couple weekends a year and are paying window rates, then sure it's a good value. If you're looking for good to great terrain, more flexibility to chase good snow, more flexibility to ski how and where you want without a guide, then areas like Crested Butte (where 2-for-1 tickets and free days on season passes are readily available), or Mtn Collective areas like Telluride, Aspen, Jackson, Taos, or AltaBird can offer more value. And if simply skiing untracked snow if your goal, then backcountry skiing may be even more rewarding.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    That is my point. You are making this about scheduling. I'm not. #2 wins almost everytime over #1 unless you have a weather crystal ball.
    This is crazy. You brought it up as well as the 'real skier' bullshit. None of it makes any sense except as your obvious elitist dreck. Go back and read what you wrote. Do you have any sense of self?

    Hardly! Laughable overreaction... But I am deeply amused by you flying off your shit about this... why are you so emotional?
    Everyone can go back and read what you wrote and it's bullshit flying from your handle. You don't have the experience to say what happens when one rolls solo during guided season.

    Everyone knows you are rah-rah Silverton. That's fine... I've been a big supporter of Silverton over the years. Bet I've given them more positive publicity in my threads and community over the years than you have in all of your threads
    You're misconstruing the situation here regarding Silverton. This isn't about me, I'm not important and most people reading this drivel won't have any idea. I'd rather not have them walk away with bad info on Silverton.
    Now wipes those tears... you are sounding as riled up as Bunny, old man.
    No tears, but I am old now. You might be someday too.

    I just think it's shitty when some ski queen comes in blabbing about 'real skiers' and disrespecting some good people and a great experience.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>> Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  3. #78
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    I was here had a good view of this
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    maybe some locals know where i was but it sure looks like somewhere in that proposed area to me.
    I will not debate the issue if you can have a good time guided skiing at Silverton. I believe the OP was objecting the discontinue of the unguided which I attribute to be motivated by profit. It is their business they can operate as they choose.
    off your knees Louie

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    Well this whole thing went off the rails quickly....

    The real skiers debate is completely irrelevant. What is relevant is that Silverton originally formed to provide a ski-centered experience to expert skiers. No real estate, no glitz, no glam, no bullshit. Just skiing. It doesn't fucking matter if you're a "real skier" or not; in fact, that was exactly the point of Silverton's original mission. It wasn't about your social status (and let's face it, whether or not you're a "real skier" or a "ski bum" is a form of social status). It was about skiing. Full stop.

    In the past, with a greater variety of guided and unguided skiing available, there were opportunities for many to enjoy the mountain. Expert skiers that had limited financial resources and/or just didn't enjoy the experience of being put in a group with a guide that tells you where to ski and when could buy an unguided ticket on several weekends per year, and rage to their hearts content. Expert skiers that have greater financial resources that preferred to ski the best and softest snow available would find value in paying a knowledgeable person to show them the best snow available on the mountain that day.

    Neither group is wrong. Neither is right. Neither is better than the other, when you're evaluating this from the perspective of "what was the original mission?" The original mission wasn't "hey, let's create a guided experience that will lead reasonably wealthy clients to good snow on steep terrain." It was, "let's make this a haven for good skiers to ski steep soft snow." The current slow elimination of unguided days is enabling the former, not the latter.

    As I've said, I don't blame them. From a business standpoint it makes sense. 100%. But don't try to tell me Silverton is all about the skiing anymore, like it was originally intended to be, because it ain't.

    As for the price: Silverton guided at $120 may very well be a good value, depending on what you're looking for. If you're looking for good terrain, good snow, and a guide, and you can only ski a couple weekends a year and are paying window rates, then sure it's a good value. If you're looking for good to great terrain, more flexibility to chase good snow, more flexibility to ski how and where you want without a guide, then areas like Crested Butte (where 2-for-1 tickets and free days on season passes are readily available), or Mtn Collective areas like Telluride, Aspen, Jackson, Taos, or AltaBird can offer more value. And if simply skiing untracked snow if your goal, then backcountry skiing may be even more rewarding.
    This is on the money
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    Never said that. I said 3-4 runs of mid angle pow. Which is what I got when I went during guided-only with the "fast skier fast hiker" group showing up solo: "ski left of my line to preserve the powder for the next group."
    You went one day and make that generalization?

    And it is what YOU get to many days if you average 5 runs like you said, that means there are plenty of days less than 5! But maybe I just had bad luck?
    Maybe.
    I had an easy solution: skiing unguided and LOVING it and doing it several days a year!

    Given your reaction, it's like I pissed on your grandma or something? If you love the Silverton guided, keep doing it. You are the target market. You identified yourself as the perfect Silverton repeat guided customer: the rich tourist. I'll probably go again when the timing is perfect to drive the 5 hours to get there, but that timing is going to be hard to find for me given other options. In the meantime, I hope to continue to be amused by your wailing and gnashing of teeth because someone has different standards and opportunities.
    Again, you're representing one experience as the norm. It's not. That's all. Plus your real skier bullshit.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>> Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    Well this whole thing went off the rails quickly....

    The real skiers debate is completely irrelevant. What is relevant is that Silverton originally formed to provide a ski-centered experience to expert skiers. No real estate, no glitz, no glam, no bullshit. Just skiing. It doesn't fucking matter if you're a "real skier" or not; in fact, that was exactly the point of Silverton's original mission. It wasn't about your social status (and let's face it, whether or not you're a "real skier" or a "ski bum" is a form of social status). It was about skiing. Full stop.
    True.

    In the past, with a greater variety of guided and unguided skiing available, there were opportunities for many to enjoy the mountain. Expert skiers that had limited financial resources and/or just didn't enjoy the experience of being put in a group with a guide that tells you where to ski and when could buy an unguided ticket on several weekends per year, and rage to their hearts content. Expert skiers that have greater financial resources that preferred to ski the best and softest snow available would find value in paying a knowledgeable person to show them the best snow available on the mountain that day.
    True.

    Neither group is wrong. Neither is right. Neither is better than the other, when you're evaluating this from the perspective of "what was the original mission?" The original mission wasn't "hey, let's create a guided experience that will lead reasonably wealthy clients to good snow on steep terrain." It was, "let's make this a haven for good skiers to ski steep soft snow." The current slow elimination of unguided days is enabling the former, not the latter.

    As I've said, I don't blame them. From a business standpoint it makes sense. 100%. But don't try to tell me Silverton is all about the skiing anymore, like it was originally intended to be, because it ain't.
    Hmm the phraseology is a little rough there. It's still about the skiing, just not the way it's been with unguided.

    As for the price: Silverton guided at $120 may very well be a good value, depending on what you're looking for. If you're looking for good terrain, good snow, and a guide, and you can only ski a couple weekends a year and are paying window rates, then sure it's a good value. If you're looking for good to great terrain, more flexibility to chase good snow, more flexibility to ski how and where you want without a guide, then areas like Crested Butte (where 2-for-1 tickets and free days on season passes are readily available), or Mtn Collective areas like Telluride, Aspen, Jackson, Taos, or AltaBird can offer more value. And if simply skiing untracked snow if your goal, then backcountry skiing may be even more rewarding.
    Comparing SM to other areas is comparing apples to oranges. Silverton is entirely different from a resort experience. Guided has is drawbacks, but it's also nice not to have to rush to the stashes and get all hyped about that.

    I don't mean to diminish the significance of less unguided, I get that. It's just that guided is not just 3 or 4 runs a day and there's some great people that love to ski there. I can do without the bro-elitism.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>> Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  7. #82
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    I wonder how a real skier like me would rate silverton

    Do the guides critique your form?

    120 for a guide sounds like a good deal

    Send me 500$ and I'll post a review and a TR in 2017
    Zone Controller

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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by digitaldeath View Post
    I wonder how a real skier like me would rate silverton
    I'm fairly certain that at Silverton, when you poach an area that is undergoing active avalanche mitigation work, they don't call the sheriff, they just blow your ass up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    Comparing SM to other areas is comparing apples to oranges.
    Then why did you do it? You're the one that brought up SM being a good deal at $120 compared to other ski areas in Colorado.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    I'm fairly certain that at Silverton, when you poach an area that is undergoing active avalanche mitigation work, they don't call the sheriff, they just blow your ass up.
    ...
    We should be so lucky.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  10. #85
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    None of us really understand how much work it is to run a ski area. I'd imagine that they're just trimming down the $/headache.
    Really? None of us?

    That said, It is the Brill's Operation and they can do as they see fit.

    120 for a day may not suit a lot of Dirtbags but it still isn't an unreasonable price and I can see the logic.

    Whatever.

  11. #86
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    Lots of animosity and bittneress from the real skiers, yikes. Maybe the guides should have taken you down Gnar Couloir after all.
    I'm looking forward to getting there this mid winter.
    It should be fun, regardless of snow depth

  12. #87
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    I'll try and stick to the facts

    1. A unguided day in $159
    2. Unguided skiing is a relatively recent addition to the menu, 15 years ago it was guided only
    3. Love it or hate it, Silverton is a success. They have made it 15 years despite a very long list of challenges. I believe their safety record is pretty good.
    4. Make no mistake about it, it is Aaron and Jen Brills' ski area. They do it their way. You might not like it, but you should respect it. Now they have a fuckin' helicopter.

    Summit, I don't know if you know Buster or not. He's a know friend of mine so I don't want to seem to be coming to his defense. That said, you saying he's not a "real skier" is pretty offensive. If there is a definition of a "real skier", he could be the picture in the dictionary. I know of very few people that truly appreciate the ability to buckle the boots up and spend a day in the mountains as much as he does. Sometimes I think the more sacrifices you make, the more you enjoy things.

    Even the concept that their is a "real skier" bugs me. The kid from Texas that comes on vacation and first feels the rush of the wind in his face as new power wedges down his first blue square, that is a "real skier". I owe almost everything in my life to the enjoyment I get from skiing. I have gone though a few phases where I thought that the juice wasn't worth the squeeze and that skiing would take a back seat in my life. I don't ski as much as I used to and I am weighed down with the responsibilities of life, but I still thing I'm a "real skier". If I'm doing in wrong, let me know.

  13. #88
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    So where are you guys getting $120 for guided from? Website says $159, so did they up it? And check out the rates for private, whoa!

    http://silvertonmountain.com/mountain/pricing/

  14. #89
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    All time mag summit , book the whole mountain for a day. 🏻

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    2. Unguided skiing is a relatively recent addition to the menu, 15 years ago it was guided only
    Unguided started in 2006. I enjoyed it for ten years and it sucks it is gone.

    3. Love it or hate it, Silverton is a success. They have made it 15 years despite a very long list of challenges. I believe their safety record is pretty good.
    4. Make no mistake about it, it is Aaron and Jen Brills' ski area. They do it their way. You might not like it, but you should respect it.
    From my first post in the thread, I said Brills can do whatever they want. I used to like what they did. Now I don't. Buster thinks not liking it = disrespect resulting in many amusing posts.

    Summit, I don't know if you know Buster or not. He's a know friend of mine so I don't want to seem to be coming to his defense. That said, you saying he's not a "real skier" is pretty offensive.
    Sorry about the whole "real skier" thing, had no idea people would get so worked up about that term. Way more thought put into it by others after the fact vs the no thought I gave it when posting. What did I mean?

    Buster's says no biggie: $160 guided is a great deal compared to Aspen day tickets if you are a wealthy out of state tourist... mostly the opposite of the unguided skier. If the previously unguided are going to ski guided, they need to put together a crew big enough to book a full group to avoid the downsides of guided skiing. And that is hard to do on short notice. Buster's answer was he doesn't need short notice because he has it all booked ahead of time and has different standards. But most of the unguided skiers were following conditions, not booking airfare and hotels weeks ahead.

    But since Buster won't acknowledge the legitimacy at that viewpoint, I quipped about "real skiers." I guess, what I mean to say, was "you are losing out if you regularly lock up a very specific trip itinerary ahead of time but have a primary goal of getting the best snow for your time." I don't care if you are booking Silverton for Jan, Alta in Feb, or an Alaska heli week in March. That is dumb in my book because there is a better way to do it. I'm not a wealthy 65 year old with 3 kids living in a no-skiing state, but Buster could do it too if he wanted. He doesn't care. He is happy. That is fine. DIFFERENT STANDARDS.

    Quote Originally Posted by hatchgreenchile View Post
    All time mag summit , book the whole mountain for a day. ��
    Wait, I went from paying $50 for unguided to being a candidate for renting out the mountain?
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  16. #91
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    Thanks for explaining that. Seriously. Overly simplified, the unguided product doesn't exist the way it used to an that sucks for those that consumed the unguided product.

    I have a bit of a different philosophy regarding chasing pow. My free time is really dedicated to spending time with my friends and family. Luckily for me, my great friends and my wife are skiers. I'm all about enjoying the experience of just being not working and out in the mountains. The lift served pow chase sometimes results put it is not really the goal. I've got friends in the Tetons, WA, Central Colorado, the San Juans, Europe and SLC that I don't get to see enough. When I visit, we usually go skiing. If the skiing sucks we'll go XC or fishing or something.

  17. #92
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    double post

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post


    Wait, I went from paying $50 for unguided to being a candidate for renting out the mountain?
    Mag summit does not equal Summit , but if you're volunteering to front the bills, by all means, have at it

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by hatchgreenchile View Post
    Mag summit does not equal Summit , but if you're volunteering to front the bills, by all means, have at it
    167 of us would need to show up and we'd be down to the $59 unguided rate... April mag summit at Silverton?

  20. #95
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    would people be happy with the term "superior skier" as opposed to just "real skier"


    sounds like an aspen day ticket is more bang for your buck

    am i wrong? rarely
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  21. #96
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    It's pretty amusing to watch Summit's failings about Buster's Silverton methodologies, knowledge and habits.

    He really has no fucking clue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  22. #97
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    Summit, I empathize with you not being happy with the shift, I get it...
    The reality is, change is a constant, and it happens a lot with all manor of product and services as companies evolve and figure out what is profitable and what is not. As Foggy mentioned, the Brill's can and do what they want.
    Nature abhors a vacuum, and I imagine you (and other like minded skiers) will find something else that fits the bill as a replacement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    Now wipes those tears... you are sounding as riled up as Bunny, old man.
    He has more skin in the game than you do, show a little respect.

    And the whole "real skier shit" g-buzz-wtf..
    I've skied nearly all my life, and I have seen many "real skiers", they aren't just one flavor my friend, they come in all shapes and sizes.
    Call it what it is, this is your flavor...
    Thatís cool, carry on, gitsome, post stoke, repeat...

    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    I'll try and stick to the facts

    1. A unguided day in $159
    2. Unguided skiing is a relatively recent addition to the menu, 15 years ago it was guided only
    3. Love it or hate it, Silverton is a success. They have made it 15 years despite a very long list of challenges. I believe their safety record is pretty good.
    4. Make no mistake about it, it is Aaron and Jen Brills' ski area. They do it their way. You might not like it, but you should respect it. Now they have a fuckin' helicopter.

    Summit, I don't know if you know Buster or not. He's a know friend of mine so I don't want to seem to be coming to his defense. That said, you saying he's not a "real skier" is pretty offensive. If there is a definition of a "real skier", he could be the picture in the dictionary. I know of very few people that truly appreciate the ability to buckle the boots up and spend a day in the mountains as much as he does. Sometimes I think the more sacrifices you make, the more you enjoy things.

    Even the concept that their is a "real skier" bugs me. The kid from Texas that comes on vacation and first feels the rush of the wind in his face as new power wedges down his first blue square, that is a "real skier". I owe almost everything in my life to the enjoyment I get from skiing. I have gone though a few phases where I thought that the juice wasn't worth the squeeze and that skiing would take a back seat in my life. I don't ski as much as I used to and I am weighed down with the responsibilities of life, but I still thing I'm a "real skier". If I'm doing in wrong, let me know.
    Right on brother!

    Quote Originally Posted by hatchgreenchile View Post
    Mag summit does not equal Summit , but if you're volunteering to front the bills, by all means, have at it
    Quote Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier View Post
    167 of us would need to show up and we'd be down to the $59 unguided rate... April mag summit at Silverton?
    Yeah, but, what an epic Summit it would be...
    I doubt there are enough beds in Silverton to accommodate overnight accommodations though.
    Alpental Indigenous

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlpenChronicHabitual View Post
    Yeah, but, what an epic Summit it would be...
    I doubt there are enough beds in Silverton to accommodate overnight accommodations though.
    We could camp.

  24. #99
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    Yeah, the trick is to go with your posse and get your own group so that when you end up in the fast skier/ fast hiker group... during guided. now that it's mostly guided...

    I have heard a few stories about yahoos poaching zones during unguided days and putting lots of people at risk. I'm sure with their insurance rate going up 400% or whatever the article said played into it as well.

    I'll go back still, but I'll also make sure there are at least 6 of us.

  25. #100
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    Most of the douchy behavior I've seen at Silverton is the the "fast skier/fast hiker" groups. I could right a "how to Silverton" thread but I'm sure nobody cares. I will say this, your guide will be keying in on your group dynamic from moment one. You need to help and encourage each other. Any animosity will be viewed as a threat to the group's safety which is the primary concern. If you get all pissy, your group will be on a short leash. If you work well as a team and can be trusted, you'll be guided into some more premium terrain. The guides all but tell you this. If you don't have the patience for the system, Silverton ain't for you.

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