MAKE TAHOE DEEP AGAIN ~ 2016/17 OFISHUL SNOW/FOOD/WHINE & STOKE THREAD

[meter-man]

Colorado transplant. Heard it's like pushing cement out here. Looking forward to not getting buried.

I like to describe the snow quality here in California as queso con nachos, so your moniker is apt. Welcome to shitty snow, traffic, rain, and no BC terrain!

[TahoeJ]

I like to describe the snow quality here in California as queso con nachos, so your moniker is apt. Welcome to shitty snow, traffic, rain, and no BC terrain!

You forgot to mention that the beer is warm!

[gnarbro365]

Are vacation rentals killing Tahoe?

Many businesses have help wanted signs out front. When I noticed it in the spring, I just assumed it was part of the seasonal ebb and flow. The signs are still up. It seems that these businesses aren't able to find anyone to work low paying jobs. Most of the people who would work those low paying jobs probably rely on seasonal or long term rentals for housing.

The pool of affordable seasonal/long term rentals has shrunk drastically in the past few years, while the amount of VRBO and AirBnB listings have skyrocketed. I'm guessing there is a direct correlation.

Now, I get it. Tourism drives the Tahoe economy. AND, if you own a second (or third, fourth, etc.) home in Tahoe, you can make much more money by renting your space out on AirBnB. Hell, you could probably pay for all the utilities, mortgage, taxes, and upkeep in a week or two. And I'm guilty. When family from out of state comes to visit, they take full advantage of the abundance of vacation rental homes. But it prices the low-wage workforce out of town. No cheap housing = no big macs?

Is there any way to find a healthy balance of rental options? Are any of the surrounding communities currently managing or trying to fix the situation? Are there any other tourism-driven areas that have taken steps? Just trying to figure out what is being, or could be, done.

[TurxSki]

Huge bay-area salary = all cash, second home, pay around 20% over asking, no problem.
Truckee area has a lot.

[Paul Blart]

Are vacation rentals killing Tahoe?

Many businesses have help wanted signs out front. When I noticed it in the spring, I just assumed it was part of the seasonal ebb and flow. The signs are still up. It seems that these businesses aren't able to find anyone to work low paying jobs. Most of the people who would work those low paying jobs probably rely on seasonal or long term rentals for housing.

The pool of affordable seasonal/long term rentals has shrunk drastically in the past few years, while the amount of VRBO and AirBnB listings have skyrocketed. I'm guessing there is a direct correlation.

Now, I get it. Tourism drives the Tahoe economy. AND, if you own a second (or third, fourth, etc.) home in Tahoe, you can make much more money by renting your space out on AirBnB. Hell, you could probably pay for all the utilities, mortgage, taxes, and upkeep in a week or two. And I'm guilty. When family from out of state comes to visit, they take full advantage of the abundance of vacation rental homes. But it prices the low-wage workforce out of town. No cheap housing = no big macs?

Is there any way to find a healthy balance of rental options? Are any of the surrounding communities currently managing or trying to fix the situation? Are there any other tourism-driven areas that have taken steps? Just trying to figure out what is being, or could be, done.

Short answer to your first question is yes.

But speaking from current experience (got our 60 day notice to vacate last week) the market for affordable long term rentals is straight garbage. You have to be willing to pay an arm and a leg to find anything reasonable. Even when something good pops up it turns into a feeding frenzy because so many people are looking for something affordable. Went to an open house for a rental last week and we're competing for a 3 bedroom house with over 50 people. I make more money than an average ski resort employee and it still sucks trying to find something within budget. I honestly can't even imagine how an entry level lift operator or restaurant worker can even manage to make ends meet here. Resorts all around the north lake area struggled with employment numbers this season. That and with more than half of resort employees living in reno it was almost impossible to run anything smoothly thanks to the abundance of closed highways this winter.

All of that being said I've heard of towns adopting policies that limit the percentage of vacation and short term rentals in order to combat the issue. I heard recently that the glenshire hoa was trying to adopt something along those lines which would be a step in the right direction.

[TahoeJ]

As far as real estate goes, Tahoe - especially Truckee - has become a distant suburb of the bay area. It's like a virus spreading north. It really hit my home town of Sonoma a few years ago, and many locals who hadn't already purchased a home were forced to leave due to skyrocketing prices and very little rental inventory. Plenty of evictions, tons of restaurants and tourism, and lots of help wanted signs. So a very similar situation. The city of Sonoma proper doesn't even allow short term rentals (but you can find them just outside the city limits), so it's not as simple as only blaming airBNB. I'd say it has more to do with the huge influx of bay area cash and people not being able to afford to buy further south. It would be a problem even if short term rentals didn't exist.

We have a second home in Tahoe Donner, but we use it a lot (I've probably slept there over 100 nights in the last year). And when we don't occupy it we list it on AirBNB. I'm sure it contributes some to the problem but I think far worse is the trend of people buying homes in the area for the sole purpose of airBNB and turning a profit. That's kind of messed up as it's purely an investment play with zero respect for the impact on the local community.

Ski resorts and large employers being cheap / chasing dollars deserve some blame too. Look at Squaw, proposing a village that would require 700 new jobs - most of them lower wage - and only proposing to provide housing for 300 of them. So they would flood Truckee / Tahoe City and beyond with another 400 people looking for rentals on top of the current shortage. Which means most will probably end up commuting from Kings Beach and Reno and the traffic will get that much worse.

[old goat]

Banning short term rentals isn't the answer, and I believe there may be legal obstacles to banning them for existing units. The answer is zoning, planning review, and building fees that encourage affordable long term housing. Stop zoning for single homes on large lots and start zoning for high density high rise units (not in Squaw Valley but in areas that are not highly desirable due to location). Adjust building fees so that a 500 sf apt doesn't incur the same fees as a 50,000 McMansion. Raise the transient occupancy tax to discourage short term rentals and use the revenue to subsidize more low income housing. Right now in Truckee even if you wanted to build affordable housing you couldn't because as anyone around here who has tried to find a contractor knows they're all busy building luxury house in Martis Camp and places like that, and if you can find a contractor he can't find subs and workers--immigration policy isn't helping that either. What is lacking is the political will. Wealthy homeowners don't really want to see the kind of housing that would be attractive to local workers and not to vacationing tourists. Everybody is talking about the problem and studying the problem. No one is doing anything about it. No one here in govt has the balls or the energy to take any meaningful action on anything. (Even making bear boxes mandatory is too controversial to pass.) Maybe when half the stores and restaurants are shuttered for lack of employees, when your furnace dies and you can't find a heating contractor to fix it the politicians will act.

[old goat]

In other news Squaw fined for patroller Joe Zuiches' death.
http://digital.olivesoftware.com/Oli...E3B3&mode=text
Sounds like maybe he was trying to untangle hang charges. The article also mentions Andrew Entin's death--sound like he was ski cutting Headwall face after a charge failed to detonate--I had been under the impression that he was standing uphill and to the side of another patroller's charge the triggered a slide and the crown extended to his position.

[Robojerry]

In other news Squaw fined for patroller Joe Zuiches' death.
http://digital.olivesoftware.com/Oli...E3B3&mode=text
Sounds like maybe he was trying to untangle hang charges. The article also mentions Andrew Entin's death--sound like he was ski cutting Headwall face after a charge failed to detonate--I had been under the impression that he was standing uphill and to the side of another patroller's charge the triggered a slide and the crown extended to his position.

Per the OSHA website, the avalanche that killed Eski was triggered by a hand charge, not while ski cutting: https://www.osha.gov/pls/imis/establ...l?id=311862544

Seems Sacbee forgot to research or factcheck before publishing

[TahoeBC]

Look back at some fat spring skiing on the great one in early April

[Paul Blart]

The little zone above Round Top Lake is a lot of fun considering it's mid August. The snow isn't in terrible shape either but there are definitely a few rocks out there looking to get ya.





We'll see if the pictures actually work.

[skier666]

Such nice stoke...

FOR AUGUST!

[gnarbro365]

Stop zoning for single homes on large lots and start zoning for high density high rise units (not in Squaw Valley but in areas that are not highly desirable due to location)

Sorry to nitpick...but where in Tahoe is not highly desirable due to location? Build a bunch of high rise units...but not on mah squaw?


Thanks for clearing it up boys. We're fucked.

[Paul Blart]

Maybe when half the stores and restaurants are shuttered for lack of employees, when your furnace dies and you can't find a heating contractor to fix it the politicians will act.

Too bad they didn't start to act when their ski resorts couldn't open on time/at all during the best season in a while due to lack of employees and more than half the workforce living in Reno

[gnarbro365]

I've found the solution. Should fit in nicely near Sand Harbor...

http://imgur.com/a/XtxNI

[TahoeJ]

Sorry to nitpick...but where in Tahoe is not highly desirable due to location? Build a bunch of high rise units...but not on mah squaw?

Pretty sure old goat lives near Donner lake. But either way, I would suggest building the high density units somewhere with more than a single ingress / egress via a 2 lane access road. The rail yard project in Truckee is a nice start (I do wish they would state that priority will be given to bidders with a local address or who will make it their primary residence, but at least it's something).

[rod9301]

Guy in brown pants, good looking turns.

I'm sure the go pro guy had nice turns too, just can't tell.

Look back at some fat spring skiing on the great one in early April

[dookeyXXX]

8.13.17
somewhere off FSR 86 and an unmarked logging road, on a ridge above the PCT between White Rock Lake and the Perazzo Canyon Cliffs.


Apres Ski Wind-Down:
Modern Times City of the Sun IPA and Trumer Pils
Soundtrack:
The Aggrolites - Hit L.A.
Horace Andy - Skylarking
Acetone - Acetone
ambersunshower - Walter T. Smith
Joseph Arthur - Big City Secrets


Additional Beta:
There's still some rideable snow on Mt. Lola; one swatch and a serious strip on the North facing backside, plus the front summit ridge saddle is still laden nicely.
There's also some rideable ridges above WRL and Basin Peak still goes. Also a smidge of a strip on the North facing backside of Castle Peak.

[old goat]

Per the OSHA website, the avalanche that killed Eski was triggered by a hand charge, not while ski cutting: https://www.osha.gov/pls/imis/establ...l?id=311862544

Seems the failing Sacbee forgot to research or factcheck before publishing. Fake news. Sad

FIFY. (Thanks for finding that--that's what I had heard from my son, who was on patrol at the time.)

Sorry to nitpick...but where in Tahoe is not highly desirable due to location? Build a bunch of high rise units...but not on mah squaw?


Thanks for clearing it up boys. We're fucked.

I should have said "relatively" undesirable--as in out in the scrub pine, not at a ski resort or with a lake view. The big new luxury developments like Lahontan, Martis Camp, and Old Greenwood are on otherwise unappealing pieces of land. Not that lower income people (under 250K/year) shouldn't be able to live in nice places, just that houses and apts in less scenic areas or farther from the amenities are less likely to be bought as short term rentals. Those high rises planned for Squaw aren't going to be affordable long term rentals. Also, it's a lot cheaper to build on the flats. In my neighborhood, after you get done blasting you wind up with a foundation that costs more than most people can afford for a house. We do have a policy of permitting MIL units on otherwise single family zoned lots--house on one side has 3 units (1 is nonconforming) all rented long term to locals, and I have no problem with it. There are 3 condo complexes--just 2 story-- at Donner Lake, not affordable.

It is possible to put deed restrictions on any new development--requiring income, long term leases etc--but apparently it's hard to sell units with restrictions, so the units have to be priced low, which means built relatively cheap. Maybe waive building fees entirely for deed restricted units.

[meter-man]

Banning short term rentals isn't the answer, and I believe there may be legal obstacles to banning them for existing units. The answer is zoning, planning review, and building fees that encourage affordable long term housing. Stop zoning for single homes on large lots and start zoning for high density high rise units (not in Squaw Valley but in areas that are not highly desirable due to location). Adjust building fees so that a 500 sf apt doesn't incur the same fees as a 50,000 McMansion. Raise the transient occupancy tax to discourage short term rentals and use the revenue to subsidize more low income housing. Right now in Truckee even if you wanted to build affordable housing you couldn't because as anyone around here who has tried to find a contractor knows they're all busy building luxury house in Martis Camp and places like that, and if you can find a contractor he can't find subs and workers--immigration policy isn't helping that either. What is lacking is the political will. Wealthy homeowners don't really want to see the kind of housing that would be attractive to local workers and not to vacationing tourists. Everybody is talking about the problem and studying the problem. No one is doing anything about it. No one here in govt has the balls or the energy to take any meaningful action on anything. (Even making bear boxes mandatory is too controversial to pass.) Maybe when half the stores and restaurants are shuttered for lack of employees, when your furnace dies and you can't find a heating contractor to fix it the politicians will act.

This. AirBnB pitches itself as a way for people to keep their homes, maintain an additional stream of income, etc. Or at least, those are some of the arguments for people who want to rent their places through ABNB.

One way to address this would be to allow people to ABNB for a set number of days per year (e.g., 15 or 30). If they rent more than that, they have to get permitted, and act like the commercial establishment that they are - i.e., pay hotel taxes, comply with laws/regs applicable to hotels, etc. They need people to enforce the permit requirements, so it should come with a healthy fine for failure to comply. The law needs to catch up to the reality and the needs of the community.

Glenshire HOA recently proposed something along these lines; they have dedicated a committee to studying the issue...so, another year or two before meaningful action (if any).

As said earlier, Truckee is in desperate need of more workforce housing (more supply). High density would make sense in all the railyard areas (thinking E of downtown), but I don't know enough of the zoning/ownership details. But makes sense based on proximity to transit, town, etc.

Bay Area cash has always had a huge imprint on Truckee/Tahoe, but AirBnb (and VRBO to a lesser extent) has made it SO easy to run a de facto hotel operation in what should be a residence. Take out that factor -- or mitigate its impacts by creating and enforcing a permitting program - and the impact is vastly reduced. There's a reason ABNB fits any of these proposals tooth and nail. And when mighty SF can't even beat them back (Prop F in 2015), how can lil ol' Truckee?

Great article in Outside: "Did Airbnb kill the mountain town?" https://www.outsideonline.com/219872...-mountain-town
LA Times on Santa Monica: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...514-story.html

[TahoeJ]

One way to address this would be to allow people to ABNB for a set number of days per year (e.g., 15 or 30). If they rent more than that, they have to get permitted, and act like the commercial establishment that they are - i.e., pay hotel taxes, comply with laws/regs applicable to hotels, etc. They need people to enforce the permit requirements, so it should come with a healthy fine for failure to comply. The law needs to catch up to the reality and the needs of the community.

Well, as it stands now if you do any short term renting - it doesn't matter how many days - you need to have a permit and pay TOT. Truckee is pretty well organized with all of this and really makes it an easy process (even sending you a reminder and TOT form every quarter), to their credit. Not sure about enforcement but it's obviously in their best interest to crack down on the non-permitted rentals, which should be fairly easy to do.

[meter-man]

Well, as it stands now if you do any short term renting - it doesn't matter how many days - you need to have a permit and pay TOT. Truckee is pretty well organized with all of this and really makes it an easy process (even sending you a reminder and TOT form every quarter), to their credit. Not sure about enforcement but it's obviously in their best interest to crack down on the non-permitted rentals, which should be fairly easy to do.

Thx - I should do some research before I open my damn mouth (but I just love to hate ABNB so much).... "the Town’s Municipal Code Chapter 3.24 states that “every operator of a hotel in the Town of Truckee for stays of less than thirty-one (31) continuous nights shall collect the tax on the amount of rent from the occupant.” Each Transient (lodger) is subject to and shall pay a tax in the amount of ten (10%) percent of the rent charged by the operator (hotel, owner of property). It is the operator’s duty to pay the tax to the Town of Truckee."

Truckee even has hired consultants to track down the scofflaws. "[T]he town has somewhere around 1,500 short-term rentals..."

http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/new...lodging-taxes/

[jorion]

Spent Saturday night at Upper Velma Lake in Desolation this weekend with three friends. Two of us brought skis with us, hoping Dick's would be holding enough snow for a decent line. It was on the lower end of expectations but, you know, it's August and backpacking and skiing is more fun than just backpacking.

Here's what the north side of Dick's looks like from Fontanillis Lake.



The best combination of access ease and quality was this line just left of center. There's a barely visible keyhole that accessed the lower snowfield dropping off to the left of the frame.



Grating the parmesan:



Headed back down to camp in time for a sunset swim. Granite is pretty.



Things are pretty burned out as you can see from the photos, but we did see a really tempting line in the distance on the way in and out. The two snowfields in the center of the picture below connect for a really nice, steep looking run. The iphone picture sucks, but it's a nice long run, longer than it appears in the pic. I'm not sure if the best way to access it is to traverse from the top of the Tallac summer trail, or to hike up the SE ridge from the backside from the PCT trail, just past Gilmore Lake. I'm tempted to go back this weekend and check it out...

[TahoeJ]

[Mokomahonah]

Much of the land in the railyard is "don't call it contaminated" and not fit for housing. Artist lofts are slated, but according to the last moonshine I read, they did not get the grant for the artist lofts (affordable housing). If they don't get it I bet they still build, but it won't be affordable.