WTF is up with the heroin?

[XXX-er]

"The latest statistics come days after the provincial government said it would be applying to the federal government to decriminalize the possession of small amounts of illicit drugs for personal use, in an effort to reduce and prevent future deaths."

This is a good thing and a step in the right direction, but it won't do anything to reduce or prevent future deaths.

On a moab trip a Psychiatrist told us the stats for NE BC ( basicly the oilpatch ?) on heavy drug use were now the same as for the downtown east side AKA skid row in Vancover which has always been the poorest area on Vancover with the biggest drug problems in BC

i think Fentynal might be killing more people than Covid ?

[skaredshtles]

<snip>
Decriminalization is an ineffective half-measure because it leaves the black market in place. There would be far fewer overdoses and overdose deaths if people had access to pure drugs of known dosage. If you strip away the arbitrary criminality and moralistic bullshit heroin addiction would be an entirely manageable medical condition, probably on par with diabetes.

This cannot be emphasized enough.

[SumJongGuy]

Add in that when it's legalized, the harm to others also goes down. Addicts aren't indebted to dealers and loan sharks they need to steal from family and strangers to repay and support the habit nearly as much. It's way more of a victimless crime and truly just an addiction issue instead of a criminal matter with a plethora of crimes and other victims impacted the way it happens when it's all illegal..

[AK47bp]

I must fall into the category that loves it. Maybe it is biology? Maybe brain chemistry? Either way, I'm humbled by the power it had over me.

Im with you here, kinda sucks.

It’s one thing to legalize or decriminalize heroin, but if it is ever sold recreationally I’d need to get my affairs in order quick.


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[XXX-er]

I seen a PBS show where addicts were given Heroin, one was a bit of a slacker in england but she was doing OK i think she had a family living in a row house, looked OK but the other guy was a middle management type in Holland working for the city, they show him nattily dressed in a tweed jacket/ bow tie leading a meeting, they overlay the vid with buddy talking about feeling guilty for falling off the wagon but he was very definalty employed and doing ok

SO it was treating addiction as an illness amongst people who were doing ok on maintenance

[Dantheman]

Switzerland has had heroin clinics for a long time and AFAIK they are very successful.

I've made the comparison to diabetes before but I think it's very applicable. Type 2 diabetes is an entirely preventable self-inflicted disease that has horrific effects on the individual (blindness, kidney failure, amputation, early death) and enormous costs to families and society at-large. But we don't imprison diabetics or make them societal outcasts--we give them insulin, request but don't require them to make beneficial lifestyle changes, and allow respected public corporations to make billions of dollars selling them the products that are making them sick. Man, imagine if soda got you high....

[Brock Landers]

Decriminalize heroin? You guys fucking nuts??

[skaredshtles]

Decriminalize heroin? You guys fucking nuts??

No. Not decriminalization.

Legalization. There's a massive difference.

[XXX-er]

we already got universal HC and completely legal MJ so heroin was just the next thing eh

[Idyllwild]

I asked my doc about smoking dope after surgery, he was all for it and it got me off the pain meds after a couple weeks

For sure- great way to get off the opiates after surgery.

However, current research suggests puffing nugs still has you inhaling carbon monoxide, which binds with hemoglobin easier than oxygen molecules, reducing oxygen carrying capacity of the hemoglobin. Slower healing.


Especially important for those lower extremity injuries.

Vapes (weed) have also shown about 30% vasoconstriction in some studies when using ultrasound.

Nicotine in any form is bad.

So if you are inured- edibles are the best choice- some active cannabinoids can cause vasodilation.

My 2 cents

[Garbowski]

Are harm reduction strategies resulting in people turning their lives around in greater numbers, or are we just trading HIV and OD for other causes of death? The non-functioning addicts these policies target don't seem to be living their best life.

[MakersTeleMark]

Man, imagine if soda got you high....

[AK47bp]

No. Not decriminalization.

Legalization. There's a massive difference.

I obviously know the difference here, but for those of us that may not know could you explain the difference?


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[MakersTeleMark]

I obviously know the difference here, but for those of us that may not know could you explain the difference?

Lay off the crack pipe bro.

[riser4]

Lay off the crack pipe bro.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

[AK47bp]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

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[Dantheman]

I obviously know the difference here, but for those of us that may not know could you explain the difference?

Generally, decriminalization only means that simple possession is no longer an arrestable offense. Production, distribution, etc. all remain illegal, and even simple possession may remain a civil infraction that you can be fined for.

Legalization typically means possession is explicitly legal under the law, and products can be produced, bought and sold in a legal state-regulated marketplace.

[XXX-er]

which ^^ was a big thing up here for the MJ

people who had been buying black market MJ forever couldn't understand that MJ didnt just become not illegal, it was now a product that had to be controled & marketed

a few years now down the road from legalizationits all shake out to where legal MJ is cheaper & better than black market and I can just walk 2 blocks to the pot shop

doubt that would happen with opiates altho In Vancover there was a vending machine giving out an opiate ( not the good stuff ?) to people who were registered to recieve it

[Benny Profane]

https://www.nashvillescene.com/news/...cf034c0e1.html

[3s]

I never noticed that 2 numbers close in size, look almost the same on a bar graph.


They should have included other popular ways to die in nashville over this time period...
i.e. murder or whatnot

[Dantheman]

Just here to point out that fentanyl is a Schedule II drug* that is widely used medically without problems every single day. When the dosages are well-controlled it's not inherently more dangerous than other opioids.

The cat's out of the bag. This shit is not going away when it is so much easier to produce and smuggle fentanyl than heroin. "Drug-induced homicide" laws will not do jack shit. The bodies will only keep piling up as we clutch pearls and wring our hands while ignoring the painfully-obvious solution.


* - Technically, there are many fentanyl analogues that are Schedule I. Placing them in Schedule I vs. Schedule II was not necessarily an evidence-based decision.

[From_the_NEK]

Seems like the fentanyl in MJ thing is becoming more popular. Maybe since weed is now "non criminal", they are using it as a way of hiding the illegal stuff.

https://www.wcax.com/2021/12/02/sear...-Rq-bBxEZxJXMI

[riser4]

Fucking Brattleboro. Well, that really isn't VT anymore anyway. South of US 4.

[JayPowHound]

Sonofabitch.

[MTT]

Add in that when it's legalized, the harm to others also goes down. Addicts aren't indebted to dealers and loan sharks they need to steal from family and strangers to repay and support the habit nearly as much. It's way more of a victimless crime and truly just an addiction issue instead of a criminal matter with a plethora of crimes and other victims impacted the way it happens when it's all illegal..

This is the line of thought I have held for a Very long time

The war on drugs is the most destructive thing related to recreational drug use

If an oil worker could just buy some real coke or whatever to get high. They probably wouldn’t even be messing with opioids. Fentanyl ——