Fu*king Cyclists

[Rideski]

Yeah they think bike = stationary. Or stationery in the other thread.

[irul&ublo]

My kids' frat does a cross country bike trip over 3 different routes each summer as a fund raiser. One route goes over Loveland pass and then on I70 for a short distance. One year a kid was killed by a semi that exited as the kid was passing the off ramp. After that the riders have had to exit at each ramp and then reenter. My kid did it on Sunday July 5 one year and they were making much better time than the cars.

I hate the assholes who make right turns and cut off cyclists. I don't think most people have a good concept of how long it takes to complete the turn and how fast the cyclist is coming. I don't take any chances turning into my driveway--I wait until cyclists are past if there's any chance of me cutting them off. The cars behind me get pissed. I don't care.

Just like the cars behind you are supposed to slow/stop for a turning car in front, cyclists are supposed to do the same. This assumes the driver starts the turn when the cyclist has time to slow

[Name Redacted]

On a bike and on a motorcycle, you must always assume that you are completely invisible to all other vehicles. If you get hit, it is your own fault. Passing on the right or hanging out in a blind spot is a good way to get killed.

[smartyiak]

...If you get hit, it is your own fault.

That might be the dumbest thing I've read in some time.

Here's one example: a few years ago, I was riding along when a lawn truck attempted to pass me. As they went by, one of the extended mirrors hit my shoulder and I was flipped into a ditch. I had a separated shoulder, two dislocated fingers, and assorted cuts and bruising; including a nasty bruise on my left shoulder area that had a square outline...not unlike that of a truck mirror.

I just don't see how that was my fault. Not to mention, if a cyclist is following the rules of the road, it is never their fault. But I will agree that being right is cold comfort when you're lying in a hospital bed.

[::: :::]

If you get hit, it is your own fault.

Complete horseshit

[Name Redacted]

That might be the dumbest thing I've read in some time.

Here's one example: a few years ago, I was riding along when a lawn truck attempted to pass me. As they went by, one of the extended mirrors hit my shoulder and I was flipped into a ditch. I had a separated shoulder, two dislocated fingers, and assorted cuts and bruising; including a nasty bruise on my left shoulder area that had a square outline...not unlike that of a truck mirror.

I just don't see how that was my fault. Not to mention, if a cyclist is following the rules of the road, it is never their fault. But I will agree that being right is cold comfort when you're lying in a hospital bed.

Sorry that happened to you. My point is, you are invisible and completely unprotected in the situation. So you should take it upon yourself to do whatever you can to avoid being hit. Doesn’t matter if rules were broken when you are dead in a ditch. Assume that all driver are morons, and don’t see you. Maybe it wasn’t your fault, but was there anything else that you could have done to avoid getting hit? At the end of the day you still got hit and I’m guessing the other guy didn’t see any repercussions right?

[Benny Profane]

If you assume that all drivers are morons, like yourself, then you'd never be on the road.

[Name Redacted]

Complete horseshit

Yeah but if you adopt this mentality, you will be less likely to be hit.

I see cyclist riding 2-3 wide on the road, the other day a husband and wife signaled a turn right in front of me and turned left across traffic without even a glance over the shoulder.

Trust me, I’m not saying drivers aren’t at fault, just that some of the entitled cyclist shit you see makes you surprised that there isn’t more collisions.

[doebedoe]

... My point is, you are invisible....

Bikers aren't invisible just because drivers use that as a defense. It's an utter horseshit narrative. Nothing in smarty's stories says "I was riding in all black gear, at night, without lights on."

[::: :::]

Yeah but if you adopt this mentality, you will be less likely to be hit.

Or ride
Or ski
Or drive somewhere
Or leave my house


Fuck that shit - don’t absolve people of their responsibility to not be negligent.

People have a responsibility for others in our society, despite the very American me-first attitude. (This masking-up we’re currently dealing with is a prime example.)

Latent in our very civil society is that we don’t go around hurting each other. Civil society doesn’t work otherwise. This includes not hitting other cars, motorcycles, cyclists & pedestrians.

Yes, lapses of responsibility will happen and it is important that we don’t put ourselves in danger unnecessarily. But the purest burden of responsibility when we operate multi-thousand pound vehicles is on the operators to not endanger others.

More reporting should be about “collisions” and not “accidents”. An accident is when negligence is absent. Most vehicle collisions are due to negligence of some kind. Even by cyclists.

[Dantheman]

Just like the cars behind you are supposed to slow/stop for a turning car in front, cyclists are supposed to do the same. This assumes the driver starts the turn when the cyclist has time to slow

Imagine we're both driving on an arterial-type road with two travel lanes each direction. You're in the right lane, I'm in the left going faster than you. I overtake you in the left lane, then immediately merge right and hit the brakes to make a right turn, which forces you to hit the brakes to avoid rear-ending me. I suspect you would be flipping me off and uttering four-letter words, and you would be completely justified because I just cut you off and it was a dangerous bullshit move. I should have slowed, merged behind you, then made my turn.

That scenario is no different than passing a bike in the shoulder/bike lane, then immediately making a right turn that requires the bike hit the brakes hard. That shit happens all the god damn time and it's bullshit.

Sorry that happened to you. My point is, you are invisible and completely unprotected in the situation. So you should take it upon yourself to do whatever you can to avoid being hit. Doesn’t matter if rules were broken when you are dead in a ditch. Assume that all driver are morons, and don’t see you. Maybe it wasn’t your fault, but was there anything else that you could have done to avoid getting hit? At the end of the day you still got hit and I’m guessing the other guy didn’t see any repercussions right?

There is a big fucking difference between "Doesn’t matter if rules were broken when you are dead in a ditch" and " If you get hit, it is your own fault." JFC.

[Name Redacted]

Bikers aren't invisible just because drivers use that as a defense. It's an utter horseshit narrative. Nothing in smarty's stories says "I was riding in all black gear, at night, without lights on."

I’m not talking specifically about smarty or anyone else. I am a road biker and motorcycle rider. I can tell you that no matter what I do, people just don’t see you and you have to assume that. I’ve ridden in cities, suburbs, mountains, all over. I see it as my responsibility to not get hit because I’m the one who will bear the consequences regardless of fault.

I also stack the deck in my favor in other ways. I don’t ride winding mountain roads with no shoulder on a holiday weekend. But after this weekend, apparently that doesn’t bother a lot of other people. Not surprisingly, there were “collisions”.

[Name Redacted]

Imagine we're both driving on an arterial-type road with two travel lanes each direction. You're in the right lane, I'm in the left going faster than you. I overtake you in the left lane, then immediately merge right and hit the brakes to make a right turn, which forces you to hit the brakes to avoid rear-ending me. I suspect you would be flipping me off and uttering four-letter words, and you would be completely justified because I just cut you off and it was a dangerous bullshit move. I should have slowed, merged behind you, then made my turn.

That scenario is no different than passing a bike in the shoulder/bike lane, then immediately making a right turn that requires the bike hit the brakes hard. That shit happens all the god damn time and it's bullshit.



There is a big fucking difference between "Doesn’t matter if rules were broken when you are dead in a ditch" and " If you get hit, it is your own fault." JFC.

It is called exaggerating to make a point, and if you think fault will matter at your funeral, it won’t.

[smartyiak]

I’ve always wanted to bike Loveland pass...

Better to do midweek for sure...

Anyone do Triple Bypass? Worth it? I was thinking of signing up earlier this year...and now thinking: next year.

... Nothing in smarty's stories says "I was riding in all black gear, at night, without lights on."

Nope...It was mid-afternoon in the middle of summer. I also have a blinky red light on the saddle.

[doebedoe]

The fact that someone bears consequences for actions, doesn't absolve other parties of acting responsibly.

I'm responsible for riding safely. Drivers are responsible for not hitting me.

Yes, we all know that the physical consequences will fall on the cyclist.

[Dantheman]

It is called exaggerating to make a point

No, it's called saying stupid shit. You are certainly free to keep doubling down on the stupid.

and if you think fault will matter at your funeral, it won’t

I am under no illusions that it will, or that the driver will face legal consequences of any kind.

[JongDoe]

I hate the assholes who make right turns and cut off cyclists. I don't think most people have a good concept of how long it takes to complete the turn and how fast the cyclist is coming. I don't take any chances turning into my driveway--I wait until cyclists are past if there's any chance of me cutting them off. The cars behind me get pissed. I don't care.

Well you are preventing those douches from cutting off the cyclists, because they obviously have a FU attitude towards bicyclists.

[Name Redacted]

I am under no illusions that it will, or that the driver will face legal consequences of any kind.

Point made.

[dan_pdx]

Driving on a back road in the Hood River valley this weekend, I got stuck behind a tractor towing agricultural equipment (harrows?). They were making from 10-15 mph and I was behind them for more than a mile before there was a safe place to pass. Pretty interesting to see how all the drivers waited patiently for a place to pass - no tailgating or aggro behavior. If I took the lane at that speed on that road on a bike, I would expect to get run down by someone. Conclusion: try to hire a tractor driver to act as a sweep any time I want to ride rural roads.

[PB]

Don't let the tractor driver wear spandex, though.

[PB]

Or ride
Or ski
Or drive somewhere
Or leave my house


Fuck that shit - don’t absolve people of their responsibility to not be negligent.

People have a responsibility for others in our society, despite the very American me-first attitude. (This masking-up we’re currently dealing with is a prime example.)

Latent in our very civil society is that we don’t go around hurting each other. Civil society doesn’t work otherwise. This includes not hitting other cars, motorcycles, cyclists & pedestrians.

Yes, lapses of responsibility will happen and it is important that we don’t put ourselves in danger unnecessarily. But the purest burden of responsibility when we operate multi-thousand pound vehicles is on the operators to not endanger others.

More reporting should be about “collisions” and not “accidents”. An accident is when negligence is absent. Most vehicle collisions are due to negligence of some kind. Even by cyclists.

Well said.

[dan_pdx]

Don't let the tractor driver wear spandex, though.

Good point, that'd be like waving a red flag in front of a bull

[irul&ublo]

Imagine we're both driving on an arterial-type road with two travel lanes each direction. You're in the right lane, I'm in the left going faster than you. I overtake you in the left lane, then immediately merge right and hit the brakes to make a right turn, which forces you to hit the brakes to avoid rear-ending me. I suspect you would be flipping me off and uttering four-letter words, and you would be completely justified because I just cut you off and it was a dangerous bullshit move. I should have slowed, merged behind you, then made my turn.

That scenario is no different than passing a bike in the shoulder/bike lane, then immediately making a right turn that requires the bike hit the brakes hard. That shit happens all the god damn time and it's bullshit.
.

I agree. My point was, when a car is making a right turn, or number of cars in a line, a cyclist riding on the right hand side of the road may have to slow and wait. If I pulled to the right to make a turn at a safe distance from a cyclist behind me, it would not be appropriate for the cyclist to maintain speed and pass me on the right. Now if I pulled to the right such that the cyclist had to jam on his brakes, that is bs.

[Dantheman]

If I pulled to the right to make a turn at a safe distance from a cyclist behind me...

That's the crux. Like Rideski says, most drivers view cyclists as nearly stationary objects when they are actually moving 15-25 mph. They forget about bikes immediately after they pass them and have no idea how close they actually are when they start their turn.

[dan_pdx]

That's the crux. Like Rideski says, most drivers view cyclists as nearly stationary objects when they are actually moving 15-25 mph. They forget about bikes immediately after they pass them and have no idea how close they actually are when they start their turn.

Happened to me in Japan - it was a left hook instead of a right hook because they drive on the left there, but same idea: a driver passed me on a downhill and immediately turned left in front of me into a driveway. If he had kept going, I might have squeaked by, but he stopped for a second in the driveway and I hit the quarter panel, then went over the handlebars headfirst into the back of his van.

That's when I got to see the difference between Japan and the US. I was walking and talking, no ambulance needed, but multiple cops came anyways and did a full-on crash investigation where they measured stuff, put markers in the road, took photos, and interviewed me, the driver, and witnesses. Pretty amazing what police can/will do when there's no violent crime to speak of and they have no presumption that the non-motorized road user is guilty.

By the end of it, they were tearing the driver a new one...then one of them took me aside and said "Look, it's clear to us this was the driver's fault. It's up to you now. If you like, you can press charges, but maybe you'd like to discuss compensation with the driver. You understand "compensation", right?"

So, pretty much coming right out and saying "see if the driver is willing to cough up enough for you to not pursue charges." The driver had a work truck he needed to drive, so he was pretty ready to wheel and deal; we settled on a new bike and him paying for me to get checked at a clinic for a concussion.

I'm pretty sure if that had happened anywhere in the US, the police would have been like "Shouldn't have hit his car, you're going to be liable for his costs at the body shop."