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  1. #2176
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    I think this is highlighting the crux of the whole driver / cyclist problem, in that parties all believe they have an absolute right not to be inconvenienced, which means fuck all.

    There is no right to not having to yield just because you are on a bike. Same applies to a car.
    Live Free or Die

  2. #2177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopeless Sinner View Post
    I can never figure out what's the big need to pass (car or cyclist) before turning off or exiting. Why not slow down, use a little patience and avoid conflict?


    In my experience many cyclists will ignore common traffic regulations as they see fit, but they expect all others to obey. Saw 2 instances last night, a cyclist blew a stop sign failing to yield right of way nearly resulted in a crushed cyclist by left turning car. It seemed as though the cyclist thought that ignoring the stop sign and riding into a crosswalk was somehow going to insure his safety. And a 2nd where cyclists ignored traffic control person and nearly plowed into an old man in a crosswalk.
    Yes, I see this routinely as well. In fact, yet again some cyclist made a left from the right lane on my yesterday. She was on an electric bike, so she just thought she would just jam on the battery power and scoot. But it's still highly dangerous. Most people on electric bikes that I have seen or not very experienced.
    "We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch

  3. #2178
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    I think this is highlighting the crux of the whole driver / cyclist problem, in that parties all believe they have an absolute right not to be inconvenienced, which means fuck all.

    There is no right to not having to yield just because you are on a bike. Same applies to a car.
    No, the right turn question is not about emotions. How slow do you need to go to turn right? If you're passing a cyclist who is only going a few mph faster than your turn speed and you can't get far enough clear so they don't catch up to you then there's a very strong chance that you have to cut them off, which is the aforementioned dangerous dick move.

  4. #2179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Overtaking someone and then immediately hitting the brakes to make a right turn is a dangerous dick move regardless of the vehicle you just passed.
    Having taken a trip over the rear deck of an automobile performing just this maneuver, I agree with this sentiment.
    It was also very expensive for the driver

    Quote Originally Posted by Toadman View Post
    Most people on electric bikes that I have seen or not very experienced.
    This. The ones I see here lack the fitness to handle a regular bike, and poor braking/handling/vector assessment skills.

  5. #2180
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    I think this is highlighting the crux of the whole driver / cyclist problem, in that parties all believe they have an absolute right not to be inconvenienced, which means fuck all.

    There is no right to not having to yield just because you are on a bike. Same applies to a car.
    I'm not sure you understand the very specific situation being described? If a driver passes and cuts in front of another vehicle (car, bike, motorcycle, whatever) to make a right turn and forces the vehicle they passed to slow down and alter their course to avoid an accident, then the driver who made the pass is a danger to everyone around them. They should have yielded to the other vehicle, then made their right turn.

    But I agree with you that we should all be fine with some inconvenience - like if I'm biking on the road and a car safely passes, then goes to make a right and can't do so for some reason and I have to alter my course - then sure - no problem. That's just traffic.

  6. #2181
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    If you were in a car and the car in front of you slowed to make a right turn, you don’t get to barrel into him and claim you had the right to be there. It is no different if you are on a bike.
    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    I think this is highlighting the crux of the whole driver / cyclist problem, in that parties all believe they have an absolute right not to be inconvenienced, which means fuck all.

    There is no right to not having to yield just because you are on a bike. Same applies to a car.
    You seem to be completely missing the point here.

  7. #2182
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    Quote Originally Posted by kathleenturneroverdrive View Post
    I think what's more "interesting" is why you're trying to navigate roadways based on the emotions (all made up in your head) of the cyclist you want to pass and the drivers behind you? It's that kind of thinking that makes people do unpredictable things on the roadway, and really, all the bitching about cars/cyclists boils down to that - we get annoyed and into accidents with people who ride or drive unpredictably.

    In your situation, the answer is simple: if you have enough space to pass the cyclist and turn right without impeding their movement, then go ahead. But if you pass a cyclist to turn right and force them to alter their speed/course, then you're in the wrong and should have yielded to them before turning right.
    I think CG has made it pretty clear that he agrees with that.
    In a lot of places the solid bike lane line turns into a broken line near intersections, to indicate to drivers to pull all the way to the right to turn right. Another thing I see at intersections with traffic lights is green painted pavement for bikes between the right turn lane and the thru lane.
    But all the pavement markings and signs in the world make no difference if people are thinking about something other than driving when they drive. What we need are cell phone alerts--"you are passing a cyclist, do not turn right in front of them", since people are looking at their phones already.

  8. #2183
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBS View Post
    Having taken a trip over the rear deck of an automobile performing just this maneuver, I agree with this sentiment.
    It was also very expensive for the driver



    This. The ones I see here lack the fitness to handle a regular bike, and poor braking/handling/vector assessment skills.
    I don't think people realize the speeds involved either. I got my doors blowed off by a dude on an electric mtn bike last week commuting home. I saw him a few hundred yards back as I entered a round about. I was just exiting and he came blowing through, probably at close to 30 mph.

    Not disparaging anyone but here in Bend, there are lots and lots of elderly riding e-bikes these days. But I liken it to old retired people buying Harley and not really being experienced enough to handle it and being aware of all the dangers involved. And yes, my pride still gets hurt when I get passed on a hill by an octogenarian on an e-bike. However, there are also tons of really young kids zipping around on e-bikes too. They are obviously a bit more prone to reckless behavior and bad judgement.
    "We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch

  9. #2184
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    I think CG has made it pretty clear that he agrees with that.
    Oh, duh, totally my fault if he meant that rhetorically

  10. #2185
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    I hate to break it to some of the cyclists here, but occasionally you will have to slow down to yield the right of way, even on a bicycle, and no that doesn't mean you were cut off.
    Live Free or Die

  11. #2186
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    Quote Originally Posted by doebedoe View Post
    To be entirely fair -- you can say this about any road users....cars, trucks, cops, pedestrians, contractors.

    Had a car cut me off and then stop in the bike lane yesterday to get out of his car and yell at me for running stop signs on my way home from the grocery store. Meanwhile, running stop signs is legal in my town if you're on a bike and there is no one else at the intersection. Fucking carbrains.

    That is true and I should have added that the cyclists I'm referring to are those riding in town w speed limits under 30mph, most on their ebikes switching identities from bikers to pedestrian and back at their own choosing using bike paths, city streets, sidewalks, and crosswalks to insure that they attain their goal of "me first."

    I'm not referencing those "real" bikers ie "road bikers" that are putting on miles out of town since most of them do follow the rules and seem to be much more cognizant of the risks and responsibilities involved.

    Any how I'm about conflict avoidance speed up and get out of the way or slow down and let others go about their business in peace.

  12. #2187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopeless Sinner View Post
    That is true and I should have added that the cyclists I'm referring to are those riding in town w speed limits under 30mph, most on their ebikes switching identities from bikers to pedestrian and back at their own choosing using bike paths, city streets, sidewalks, and crosswalks to insure that they attain their goal of "me first."
    ...
    This is what happens when you only have infrastructure built with cars and pedestrians in mind. It's not just a matter of "me first" (though it is some of that) -- it's a matter of cyclists working to solve a disjointed set of infrastructure. Far less of these issues in places where bikes are just part of the regular transportation regime and designs are built to include them from the first.

  13. #2188
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    I hate to break it to some of the cyclists here, but occasionally you will have to slow down to yield the right of way, even on a bicycle, and no that doesn't mean you were cut off.
    i don't disagree with what you've stated, but, as I read this thread further, you seem intent on disregarding the condition of unsafely passing to make a right turn -- is there any situation in which you would agree that a cyclist was "cut off" by another road user?

    i can assure you that every cyclist brakes when they have an asshole try to go for the hole shot cuz we're all aware who wins in a battle of mass...doesn't make the unsafe pass "legal" or "by rights"

  14. #2189
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    I think this is highlighting the crux of the whole driver / cyclist problem, in that parties all believe they have an absolute right not to be inconvenienced, which means fuck all.

    There is no right to not having to yield just because you are on a bike. Same applies to a car.
    If the cyclist is in a bike lane, it's a lane of traffic and someone turning right across the lane must yield to traffic in the lane, same as with two cars. If there are no bike lanes and the cyclist is sharing the lane with car traffic, then obviously the car has no duty to yield and it would be dumb for the cyclist to pass on the right if the car ahead slows down. In that situation, hopefully the driver uses their turn signal, but we all know that's a crapshoot.

  15. #2190
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    Quote Originally Posted by ::: ::: View Post
    i don't disagree with what you've stated, but, as I read this thread further, you seem intent on disregarding the condition of unsafely passing to make a right turn -- is there any situation in which you would agree that a cyclist was "cut off" by another road user?

    i can assure you that every cyclist brakes when they have an asshole try to go for the hole shot cuz we're all aware who wins in a battle of mass...doesn't make the unsafe pass "legal" or "by rights"
    Don't get me wrong, there are 100% situations where a driver cuts someone off, but my reply is in response to several people claiming that having to slow down at all means they are cut off. That just isn't the case and seems to me to be an example of cyclist me first behavior.
    Live Free or Die

  16. #2191
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    I stop for red lights and stop signs on my bike because I don't want to get hit, and because people project behavior of an individual in a group onto the group as a whole.

    I was in an organized gravel ride recently where a dirt road joined a busy two lane paved road with a stop sign after a fun descent. I stopped, looked both ways, and yelled "clear!" as I rode through. Another rider near me saw me stopping and slowed, then complained that we could have ran the sign. Why? This road isn't closed. This ain't the TDF. I'm slow, we're hours off a fast time, who cares.

    Am I invisible to all drivers as a cyclist? No, some of them are watching. But I'm going to pretend I am, because you can never tell.

  17. #2192
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    Fu*king Cyclists

    It”s been a few decades, but when I commuted in the city to Uni on my bike, there were no such thing as the bike lanes that exist today. And I had a couple of nasty incidents with people not seeing me and attempting a right turn after ‘almost’ passing me. I found the best way to avoid that circumstance was to be that asshole rider that doesn’t hug the curb and rides closer to the centre of the lane, forcing them to both see me, and limit their ability to pass when it was unsafe for them to do so (from my perspective). Never forgot the one woman whose car got a lovely gouge down her passenger side from the front door pillar all the way to her trunk from my mtn bike of the day bar horns. Managed to stay on my ride but it took all I had not to go down under the rear wheel. The driver was suitably apologetic, but I suspect she claimed the damage on her car as a parking lot damage. I hate riding where there are vehicles going >50kph these days.
    Last edited by BCMtnHound; 08-15-2022 at 12:23 PM.

  18. #2193
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    Quote Originally Posted by doebedoe View Post
    This is what happens when you only have infrastructure built with cars and pedestrians in mind. It's not just a matter of "me first" (though it is some of that) -- it's a matter of cyclists working to solve a disjointed set of infrastructure. Far less of these issues in places where bikes are just part of the regular transportation regime and designs are built to include them from the first.

    It's Ketchum, ID, on the way to the symphony, so it's for damn sure a "me first" issue. LOL

  19. #2194
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    Quote Originally Posted by 365wp View Post
    Am I invisible to all drivers as a cyclist? No, some of them are watching. But I'm going to pretend I am, because you can never tell.
    This is the advice I gave to a family member when they started to road bike. Just assume that the driver doesn't see you. I have had dozens and dozens of incidence happen where it looked like the driver was making eye contact with me, and then proceed to pull out in front of me.
    "We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch

  20. #2195
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBS View Post
    Having taken a trip over the rear deck of an automobile performing just this maneuver, I agree with this sentiment.
    It was also very expensive for the driver
    I’ll raise you into the back of a minivan that overtook me, slowed to a halt for a right, I looked back to see if any other cars were coming and bam. Brand new Peugeot folded.
    "boobs just make the world better really" - Woodsy

  21. #2196
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    Why were you carrying a pepper grinder?

  22. #2197
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    Because he likes to GRIND, maaan…
    Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident

  23. #2198
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    I may have told this story here before (probably in this thread), but it seems relevant again.

    I was right hooked by a small delivery van in Japan in 1999 while cycle touring. They drive on the left, so technically it was a left hook. They passed me, turned in front of me, and stopped short in the entrance to a parking lot; I ran into the side/back at slow speeds, maybe 15 mph or a little less. I hit the vehicle head first but I felt OK (yay for helmets), and my frame was crimped.

    Multiple cops came and did an actual crash scene investigation with little numbered easels marking key spots, photographs, the whole 9 yards. They did separate roadside interrogations of me and the driver and I noticed the body language of the cop who was interrogating the driver got more and more stern. Eventually I heard him say something along the lines of "did you see the bikes when you passed them? Yes? Then why did you turn in front of them?"

    They told us to see if we could come to an arrangement that would satisfy me without filing charges. We did, it involved a new (not fancy) bike.

    As an American, it was surprising but very refreshing to see a bike/car accident handled with that level of rigor. It's a shame that aggressive driving is so normalized here.

  24. #2199
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    Legislators in Washington D.C. are looking to not just legalize the “Idaho Stop” for bikers, they also are considering a bill that would prohibit drivers from turning right on red.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/trans...ed-idaho-stop/

  25. #2200
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    Don't get me wrong, there are 100% situations where a driver cuts someone off, but my reply is in response to several people claiming that having to slow down at all means they are cut off. That just isn't the case and seems to me to be an example of cyclist me first behavior.
    If the person you just passed has to slow down to not rear-end you, by definition you saved no time and endangered them and yourself for no reason. I find it just as infuriating when I'm driving, but it is especially dangerous for a cyclist because they don't have brake lights and are more likely to get rear-ended when they slow down to accommodate your poorly-executed right turn.

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