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  1. #76
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    Fu*king Cyclists

    What is the real world opinion on Stop signs and traffic signals for cyclists when clearly there is no traffic coming that will cause an issue?

    Two examples: A stop sign with good visibility and no cars: I'll go through.

    A red light where the cars with the right of way are all through and there are no more cars coming. Clear line of sight as well. I'll go through.

    I do both pretty much on a daily basis, but make sure I'm not impeding another vehicle's right of way.

  2. #77
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    These road bike threads go over like ton of bricks, no matter what kind of forum.


    Not sure how to handle underage riders, but IMHO bikes for 16 years of age and above should be required to have tags and the riders should have to have a license. Take a test and know the laws, and be held to those laws.


    So siily I can't legally ride a few miles of pavement connecting trails on my dirt bike that will go the speed limit or faster, yet any assclown can get on the road with a bike.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by abraham View Post
    My hope is it's a form of Darwinian self selection. It's hard to see that concrete wall in front of you while watching your videos

    I've now seen porn twice in traffic as I walk by in the morning. And some people playing pokemon go, and shitty telenovelas, and, and.....
    I once saw someone doing a crossword puzzle on their steering wheel (paper & pencil!) while making the merge from I-90 west to I-405 North. This is a freeway interchange that has both the east and west bound traffic funneling into one lane. Weeeeeeeeeeeee! Glad I was on the bus!

    Another time I was driving into work on 520 around 7am and saw the guy in the lane next to me leaning forward, both arms wrapped around the steering wheel up to his elbows with a crack pipe in one hand and a lighter in the other toking away.
    ďWhen you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


    Kindness is a bridge between all people

    Dunkiní Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism

  4. #79
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    KQ- you had the ROW, any time you're crossing a lane of travel (like they had to, to get onto new rd) you are the yielding vehicle.

    For the cyclists in here, I see some hudge medical bills coming your way. If you want to be douchey bike riders in traffic or on busy roads, you're going to get hit. Even if you're in the "right" when a car hits you, you lose.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    Another time I was driving into work on 520 around 7am and saw the guy in the lane next to me leaning forward, both arms wrapped around the steering wheel up to his elbows with a crack pipe in one hand and a lighter in the other toking away.
    You got a better way to smoke crack while driving?

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    I once saw someone doing a crossword puzzle on their steering wheel (paper & pencil!) while making the merge from I-90 west to I-405 North.
    Saw a kindle reader on i90 a few weeks back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by commonlaw View Post
    You got a better way to smoke crack while driving?
    Hire a secretary/driver

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfelot View Post
    What is the real world opinion on Stop signs and traffic signals for cyclists when clearly there is no traffic coming that will cause an issue?

    Two examples: A stop sign with good visibility and no cars: I'll go through.

    A red light where the cars with the right of way are all through and there are no more cars coming. Clear line of sight as well. I'll go through.

    I do both pretty much on a daily basis, but make sure I'm not impeding another vehicle's right of way.
    If no one sees it, did it happen?

    But as both a driver and a sometimes city cyclist as long as you do what's in bold I don't see an issue.

    It's when people don't do that it's an obvious issue and fucking insanely selfish and retarded. I almost took out a girl a few months back in what would have been a horrific accident. It was 5:30am on a Saturday morning and I was going 40mph (5mph over SL) north on a one way coming up to a major intersection (my one lane one way to a three lane one way). I had a green light and was cruising along, next thing I know this dumbass was hauling along on her fixie down the three lane one way (which is part of the other complaint I had earlier), plows through her red light at the intersection without even glancing my way or with even a hint of slowing down. I was literally 2 seconds from being in a Faces of Death scene.

    That alone gave me nightmares for a day or two. All the while her dumbass had no idea her life was 2 seconds away from being ended.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    You've combined two of my posts that aren't discussing the same roads or situations.

    Road I was on where I was seeking input to right of way is posted 50mph. There is no change/reduction posted as you approach that particular intersection which, as I noted is essentially a "T" with no signage what-so-ever. I was traveling along the top of the "T" the cyclists were perpendicular to me. It is in eastern Washington.
    clearly, the cyclists were stupid or ignorant or both

    its an unmarked intersection
    there is no legal right identified
    the geometry is such that it acts like a T but isn't really a T
    so, while you can argue right of way on the "straightaway", someone else can argue it's an unmarked intersection and all the rights and responsibilities for safe passage through apply


    but arguing it doesn't help anyone after an incident, right?

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by soups818 View Post
    If no one sees it, did it happen?

    But as both a driver and a sometimes city cyclist as long as you do what's in bold I don't see an issue.

    It's when people don't do that it's an obvious issue and fucking insanely selfish and retarded. I almost took out a girl a few months back in what would have been a horrific accident. It was 5:30am on a Saturday morning and I was going 40mph (5mph over SL) north on a one way coming up to a major intersection (my one lane one way to a three lane one way). I had a green light and was cruising along, next thing I know this dumbass was hauling along on her fixie down the three lane one way (which is part of the other complaint I had earlier), plows through her red light at the intersection without even glancing my way or with even a hint of slowing down. I was literally 2 seconds from being in a Faces of Death scene.

    That alone gave me nightmares for a day or two. All the while her dumbass had no idea her life was 2 seconds away from being ended.
    Thanks for the verification and yikes on your story.

  11. #86
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    Interesting timing of this thread and an email from People for Bikes President, Tim Blumenthal in my inbox this morning:

    "Iíve never ridden a high-wheeler. Iíve never played bicycle soccer. Iíve never hucked seaside village rooftops like trials master Danny MacAskill. But Iíve enjoyed countless types of cycling experiences and revered them all. Many of my best rides have been on the road. But todayólike so many people who bikeóI am seriously concerned about the future of the road riding experience, particularly the challenges of navigating among angry and distracted drivers.

    I think I understand the roots of angry driving. The U.S. population is growing by more than 2.5 million people per year. More places are getting crowded and, of course, that includes most roads. Crowding increases stress and frustration, and that fuels anger. U.S. car and truck sales hit an all-time high in 2015óa year in which Americans drove more miles than ever before.

    News of bike fatalities travels faster and every bulletin is unnerving. Even if bike deaths on the road arenít significantly increasing (either as a raw number or percentage of trips), riding on the road today feels more dangerous. Forty-six states have passed anti-texting laws that prohibit typing while driving. Nevertheless, I frequently see people breaking this law. Whether Iím on a bike or in a car, at every red light I notice just about everyone behind the wheel looking down. When the light turns green, many donít put their phones aside.
    Ironically, the phone distraction phenomenon seems to be spreading quickly to two wheels. Have you noticed? Iím not sure if these riders are reading texts or playing Pokťmon Go (or both), but so many people I encounter on multi-use paths clearly arenít focused on the pavement ahead.

    I doubt distracted, texting and angry driving are going away soon. I have trouble imagining that law enforcement resources will be fundamentally reallocated to monitor and ticket these behaviors.

    So what are the solutions? How do we make riding on the road safer? This is a crucial question with no one, easy answer.

    PeopleForBikes will continue to focus on improving bike infrastructure and creating safe, seamless networks. In the places where these networks have already been built, more people bike and fewer people are injured or killed in crashes. We will continue to encourage people to bike responsibly and predictably.

    Meanwhile, here are six other suggestions:

    -The industry focus on improving rider visibility is an important development that will help a lot if people who bike embrace it.
    -Speed limits in town need to be lowered. The difference between 20 miles per hour and 35 mph is huge for the safety of kids and adults, on foot, on bike and in cars. Lower speeds make places quieter and more appealing for everyone. We just need to accept that driving inside city limits on most (but not all) roads is going to take a little longer. The tradeoffs are more than worth it.
    -Keep pushing car companies to produce technology that makes steering and texting at the same time impossible. This can be done.
    -Keep developing autonomous vehicles. Computers that guide cars and trucks will never be impaired, distracted or angry. -Automated cars should also dramatically reduce the need for private vehicle ownership and that could cut our need for on-street parking. Autonomous vehicles should create more space and enhance safety for everyone.
    -Root for GoPro and all makers of on-board cameras. When aggressive, reckless driving (or any type of activity) is captured on video, people who are guilty will be found guilty and will go to jail. This can become an effective deterrent. Some people wonít like it: tough.
    -Adapt best practices from the nations that do a better job of protecting bike riders and pedestrians. Thatís the Netherlands, Denmark and a few other western European nations. Yes, they are smaller, more crowded countries than the U.S., but they have spent the last 40 years developing best practices for moving people and moving goods. We can learn a lot from them.
    Americans make close to five billion bike trips per year. Thatís an average of 14 million rides per dayómany more than that on a warm-weather weekend. We need to eliminate the crashes that can be avoidedÖand thatís most of them.

    We canít do this alone, but we can do this. All road users are in this together."

  12. #87
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    Interesting that the suggested behavioral changes in the cited email all have to do with changing the habits of automobile operators and, outside of what color clothes you wear as a cyclist, none of the behaviors address the cyclists who don't follow good protocol. Good luck with that.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by acinpdx View Post
    clearly, the cyclists were stupid or ignorant or both

    its an unmarked intersection
    there is no legal right identified
    the geometry is such that it acts like a T but isn't really a T
    so, while you can argue right of way on the "straightaway", someone else can argue it's an unmarked intersection and all the rights and responsibilities for safe passage through apply


    but arguing it doesn't help anyone after an incident, right?
    Any time you leave your lane of traffic, it is your responsibility to yield or make sure it is safe to leave your lane. Her lane continues on and she never leaves her lane... but yeah, when you're frame is broken and your skeleton has many missing parts, it doesn't really matter. On moto's and bikes, I yield to the car.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1080Rider View Post
    For the cyclists in here, I see some hudge medical bills coming your way. If you want to be douchey bike riders in traffic or on busy roads, you're going to get hit. Even if you're in the "right" when a car hits you, you lose.
    Get bent, dickhead.

    I do everything I can NOT to get hit. Sometimes that involves riding out in traffic so I can be more easily seen and stupid fucks don't try and take turns in front of me. But I'm not going to stop riding bikes.

    I'm a sales rep, I spend most days driving between accounts all over the Wasatch Front and the amount of utterly terrible, inept, dangerous, selfish, entitled driving I see all day every day would boggle your mind - or maybe not - we're all getting disturbingly conditioned to shitty driving - I'm not reading comment sections in every article about a fatal auto wreck full of victim blaming, all encompassing hyperbole and proposals for more driver education or increased enforcement. Its difficult for me to sympathize with drivers bitching about cyclists "in the way". We're talking about seconds of delay out of lifetimes increasingly flooded with worthless distractions and we're talking about human lives. I understand there are some bad apples and people riding in stupid spots like that busy shoulderless canyon road described earlier, but the antagonism and hyperbole used against cyclists in comments sections and the shit like you wrote above is horrifying and only further poisons the well.

    I'm very picky about where and when I ride on the road, I try to pick signed bike routes, bike lanes, wide shoulders and quiet roads but I sure as shit will take the lane when I feel necessary for safety and visibility. The vast majority of cyclists I see, both recreational and transportation-minded, are riding safely and well within the rules of the road.

  15. #90
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    KQ on your hypo:

    1. What a disaster of an intersection. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody is killed there, or has been killed.
    2. It should be a roundabout, as has been said.
    3. I was just chatting with the sheriff lieutenant I work with and showed it to him. He said that, even without signage, the SB traffic on Sweagle Road should be yielding to crosstraffic and if he had been investigating a hypothetical accident in your scenario, he would've found the cyclists at fault.
    4. We looked at it in Google Streetview and there actually is a yield sign for SB traffic turning WB. There should also be one for SB traffic heading EB at the bottom right corner of the island.

    So, yes, you likely had the right of way and would not have been at fault in an accident. As a county dentist though, if that was my county, I'd be concerned about liability for the lack of signage. (Seriously.) A disaster waiting to happen.

    Also, what JoeTron said. I recently picked up road biking after resisting for years for safety reasons. Of mountain biking, BC skiing, rock climbing, etc., road biking is easily​ the most dangerous thing I do. And I like to think I'm a courteous cyclist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest_Hemingway View Post
    I realize there is not much hope for a bullfighting forum. I understand that most of you would prefer to discuss the ingredients of jacket fabrics than the ingredients of a brave man. I know nothing of the former. But the latter is made of courage, and skill, and grace in the presence of the possibility of death. If someone could make a jacket of those three things it would no doubt be the most popular and prized item in all of your closets.

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldMember View Post
    Interesting that the suggested behavioral changes in the cited email all have to do with changing the habits of automobile operators and, outside of what color clothes you wear as a cyclist, none of the behaviors address the cyclists who don't follow good protocol. Good luck with that.
    Maybe because the vast majority of cyclists are following good protocol and yet we are seeing increasing numbers of fatalities and serious injuries in rules abiding cyclists getting smoked by aggressive, inept, or distracted drivers?

  17. #92
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    pdx is a combo idiot entitled drivers and bigger idiot entitled cyclists. they would be equal idiots but one is encased in steel.

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1080Rider View Post
    Any time you leave your lane of traffic, it is your responsibility to yield or make sure it is safe to leave your lane. Her lane continues on and she never leaves her lane... but yeah, when you're frame is broken and your skeleton has many missing parts, it doesn't really matter. On moto's and bikes, I yield to the car.
    i'm not sure what your beef is with me -- did you read the first line you quoted of mine?

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by joetron View Post
    Get bent, dickhead.
    ha, ha, awesome!
    Quote Originally Posted by joetron View Post

    I'm very picky about where and when I ride on the road, I try to pick signed bike routes, bike lanes, wide shoulders and quiet roads but I sure as shit will take the lane when I feel necessary for safety and visibility. The vast majority of cyclists I see, both recreational and transportation-minded, are riding safely and well within the rules of the road.
    Do you see a difference between what you wrote here and what others have posted on the subject? I do...

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by acinpdx View Post
    i'm not sure what your beef is with me -- did you read the first line you quoted of mine?
    Seriously, no beef, I was just clarifying that they had a duty to make sure they could leave they're lane safely, the whole T intersection thing doesn't really matter in this instance because they're turning from one road to another. I shoulda included something cool like this

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by joetron View Post
    Meanwhile, here are six other suggestions:

    -The industry focus on improving rider visibility is an important development that will help a lot if people who bike embrace it.
    -Speed limits in town need to be lowered. The difference between 20 miles per hour and 35 mph is huge for the safety of kids and adults, on foot, on bike and in cars. Lower speeds make places quieter and more appealing for everyone. We just need to accept that driving inside city limits on most (but not all) roads is going to take a little longer. The tradeoffs are more than worth it.
    -Keep pushing car companies to produce technology that makes steering and texting at the same time impossible. This can be done.
    -Keep developing autonomous vehicles. Computers that guide cars and trucks will never be impaired, distracted or angry. -Automated cars should also dramatically reduce the need for private vehicle ownership and that could cut our need for on-street parking. Autonomous vehicles should create more space and enhance safety for everyone.
    -Root for GoPro and all makers of on-board cameras. When aggressive, reckless driving (or any type of activity) is captured on video, people who are guilty will be found guilty and will go to jail. This can become an effective deterrent. Some people wonít like it: tough.
    -Adapt best practices from the nations that do a better job of protecting bike riders and pedestrians. Thatís the Netherlands, Denmark and a few other western European nations. Yes, they are smaller, more crowded countries than the U.S., but they have spent the last 40 years developing best practices for moving people and moving goods. We can learn a lot from them.
    Is this serious? Or are you channeling some marginalized hair-shirt Sierra Club fruit loop? 20mph speed limits?

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1080Rider View Post
    Seriously, no beef, I was just clarifying that they had a duty to make sure they could leave they're lane safely, the whole T intersection thing doesn't really matter in this instance because they're turning from one road to another. I shoulda included something cool like this
    My apologies...I misread this part of your post as directed at me, and as I reread, it is not
    Quote Originally Posted by 1080Rider View Post
    but yeah, when you're frame is broken and your skeleton has many missing parts, it doesn't really matter.

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by acinpdx View Post
    My apologies...I misread this part of your post as directed at me, and as I reread, it is not
    Ah yes, got it. That part was just me agreeing w/ you that arguing about right of way from a hospital bed is never fun!

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by joetron View Post
    Maybe because the vast majority of cyclists are following good protocol and yet we are seeing increasing numbers of fatalities and serious injuries in rules abiding cyclists getting smoked by aggressive, inept, or distracted drivers?
    I wouldn't say the vast majority of cyclists are following good protocol, considering poor protocol is what sparked this thread. In reading many of the comments, claiming that the vast majority follow good protocol is a stretch. Clearly, though, the author of the referenced emails feels as you do and that the blame is entirely on those driving cars. I don't agree and I'm a cyclist so my bias isn't to the opposite, just educated observation. Regardless, that wasn't my point. The issue is that any politicians, in most cities, that would pursue some of the fixes noted would have the automotive public to deal with. That's a much larger voting block. A prime example is the 20 mph speed limit in lieu of 35 mph, all to protect the few riders on streets where bikes really shouldn't be. The example I'm thinking of is my daily commute. There are 2 or 3 bike commuters I see pretty regularly going to work. They're riding on a 4 lane (2 each direction) street without a bike lane, 35 mph. Is the suggestion that the street should be 20 mph to accommodate those riders? If such a suggestion were to be implemented, the drivers in this city would revolt, big time. It's simply a matter of numbers. I don't see getting critical mass to implement the suggestions of the writer of the email and, hence, my 'good luck with that' comment.

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldMember View Post
    I wouldn't say the vast majority of cyclists are following good protocol, considering poor protocol is what sparked this thread. In reading many of the comments, claiming that the vast majority follow good protocol is a stretch. Clearly, though, the author of the referenced emails feels as you do and that the blame is entirely on those driving cars. I don't agree and I'm a cyclist so my bias isn't to the opposite, just educated observation. Regardless, that wasn't my point. The issue is that any politicians, in most cities, that would pursue some of the fixes noted would have the automotive public to deal with. That's a much larger voting block. A prime example is the 20 mph speed limit in lieu of 35 mph, all to protect the few riders on streets where bikes really shouldn't be. The example I'm thinking of is my daily commute. There are 2 or 3 bike commuters I see pretty regularly going to work. They're riding on a 4 lane (2 each direction) street without a bike lane, 35 mph. Is the suggestion that the street should be 20 mph to accommodate those riders? If such a suggestion were to be implemented, the drivers in this city would revolt, big time. It's simply a matter of numbers. I don't see getting critical mass to implement the suggestions of the writer of the email and, hence, my 'good luck with that' comment.
    we live in our own bubble in portland...I know that
    but the needle does move occasionally in favor of protecting pedestrians and cyclists as the at-risk population

    http://www.portlandmercury.com/news/...nd-pedestrians


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