Red Mountain Crowdfunding

**Buster Highmen** · 08-23-2016, 08:00 AM

FYI:
https://www.startengine.com/startup/red-mountain-resort

**Norseman** · 08-23-2016, 08:07 AM

Saw that, too. Didn't know they were struggling. Such a fun hill. Anyone from Rossland or Trail know the scoop?

**::: :::** · 08-23-2016, 08:17 AM

...seems like a worthy one
Thx for the link, B!

**Dhelihiker** · 08-23-2016, 09:06 AM

My Grandpa skied that mountain before the there were lifts, I love that place. I wish I could could own a piece of it, oh I guess I can.

**Buster Highmen** · 08-23-2016, 09:40 AM

Yeah, Red has a bunch of kickass terrain on Granite alone. I haven't been since before the addition to Grey. I ought to make a slice through the Kootenays again.

**DJ2** · 08-23-2016, 10:10 AM

No brainer! I'm in for a reservation at least.

**MtnRA** · 08-23-2016, 11:06 AM

Here is an interview from yesterday

Fight the Man. Own the Mountain: Interview with Red Mountain’s Howard Katkov

**PNWbrit** · 08-23-2016, 02:56 PM

if one of the "mega resorts" offered up a similar "investor" level membership with "clubhouse access", "exclusive limited edition skis", "special tickets deals" and "membership priority accommodation" you guys (and Red Mtn) would be looking for your pitchforks, tar and feathers.

Rank hypocrisy by them IMO.

**Buster Highmen** · 08-23-2016, 03:12 PM

I wouldn't.
I don't really see the hypocrisy. I have some other negative opinions about this deal, but I thought I would withhold them.

**::: :::** · 08-23-2016, 04:42 PM

They're looking for $10M min

(Jay Peak owners raised $400M, but I guess that was a little less above board)

I'd guess, if Red is doing as well as they say ("best fiscal year ever"), they could probably secure a loan for $10M, but it looks like they want to aggregate skier interest more than just fundraising

$10M / $1k per head = 10k people hoping to use the potty at the clubhouse on any given day

$10M could easily be eaten up by just a couple of their prospective development proposals:
renovation of the existing lodge
new restaurant
clubhouse
overnight on-mountain cabins
extension of a chair
extra run development
trail building
local scholarship

or they could get all of those done, just depends on the level of customer service they're shooting for...

**PNWbrit** · 08-23-2016, 04:55 PM

It'd be interesting to know what the locals think of this.. of him..

California Cosmetics millionaire.. did i hear that bit right in ELA's interview? bought it in 2004, The big new hotel development.. the expansion of cats and lifts into side country.. this latest Reverse Costner scheme?

**GoldMember** · 08-23-2016, 06:32 PM

The investor side of me says, yeah, that's great but how do you say what you might commit without knowing the valuation that your investment will be credited with? What stock class is it? Are there quarterly/annual dividend payments?

I don't know....seems more like a marketing tact than a real investment opportunity.

**kootenayskier** · 08-24-2016, 06:59 AM

Howard's a San Diego real-estate developer, who's plan for a very conventional mega resort development at Red went sideways in 2008. He and his investor buddies have been getting creative ever since, trying to spin themselves out of a very deep financial hole, but with seemingly no realistic prospect of ever getting a return on their substantial investments. Red's always been and remains a huge, challenging, remote, and empty place to ski, and deservedly loved by those that appreciate these things, but Howard's latest scheme seems nothing more than an opportunity to join an expensive club, rather than a legitimate investment. Most people I know in the community find Howard's cheesy marketing shtick, and constant attempts to re-package our way of life and values as a draw for wealthy Americans, to be a form of cynical cultural appropriation.

**PNWbrit** · 08-24-2016, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by kootenayskier

Howard's a San Diego real-estate developer, who's plan for a very conventional mega resort development at Red went sideways in 2008. He and his investor buddies have been getting creative ever since, trying to spin themselves out of a very deep financial hole, but with seemingly no realistic prospect of ever getting a return on their substantial investments. Red's always been and remains a huge, challenging, remote, and empty place to ski, and deservedly loved by those that appreciate these things, but Howard's latest scheme seems nothing more than an opportunity to join an expensive club, rather than a legitimate investment. Most people I know in the community find Howard's cheesy marketing shtick, and constant attempts to re-package our way of life and values as a draw for wealthy Americans, to be a form of cynical cultural appropriation.

Thank you. What I suspected.

**Benny Profane** · 08-24-2016, 08:54 AM

Maybe they can sell 3000 dollar t shirts.

**Buster Highmen** · 08-24-2016, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by kootenayskier

.. constant attempts to re-package our way of life and values as a draw for wealthy, to be a form of cynical cultural appropriation.

Doesn't that sum up most of the Outdoor Marketing schtick?

You can fall for that stuff one way or the other, but independent of all the personal h00haw and marketing, I'm surprised no one has called out that it's just not a very good deal at any level.

For $25k you get a 5 year family pass (or 2 7 year passes) 10 transferable adult lift tickets and access to the cabins and "club" memberships? For $1k you get club membership and 5 transferable tickets?

Originally Posted by kootenayskier

...seems nothing more than an opportunity to join an expensive club, rather than a legitimate investment.

Yup.

Plus it is a little annoying that they're touting this as a first in light of Shames, MRG and Silverton.

It's a great mountain and Rossland is a great town, so I'll be back anyway even if I'm not a member of "the club".

**PNWbrit** · 08-24-2016, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

as a first in light of Shames

Noticed that Shames wasn't mentioned in the interview... what was it ? "been done in some other places" ....funny.

I hope he has some good lawyers.. buying in now to gain some future unspecific right to buy into another level of investment club sounds like a recipe for a shit ton of being illegal or just for investor lawsuits.

**Benny Profane** · 08-24-2016, 10:05 AM

The industry is fairly rapidly changing and shrinking, as the Boomers, it's original crowd finders, die off, with the millenials too poor and indebted to replace them. Snowboarding delayed the inevitable, but now that that fad is dying, the second tier mountains, both east and west, are in trouble. Doesn't help that this place is so hard to get to. Too bad, I hear it's a great place, but I'll stick to the MC mountains for now, and most of the rest of America will get sucked into the Vail. inc vortex.

**Buster Highmen** · 08-24-2016, 10:06 AM

Right now, all they're asking for is interest and a vote ; there's no official offering. Even so, for $25k I'd think you'd get a lifetime pass at least.

**PNWbrit** · 08-24-2016, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

The industry is fairly rapidly changing and shrinking, as the Boomers, it's original crowd finders, die off

Chair lift falls?

Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

for $25k I'd think you'd get a lifetime pass at least.

At least one.

**Danno** · 08-24-2016, 10:43 AM

Doesn't seem like an investment at all. Seems like they're asking people to pay money up front in exchange for certain perks. Beats borrowing the money, I guess, if people are willing to pony up. But again, does not look like a real investment to me.

**Shredhead** · 08-24-2016, 10:58 AM

Red's a great hill. But it will always just be a regional resort, cause money can't fix elevation.

**Benny Profane** · 08-24-2016, 11:43 AM

Killington was orinally "crowdfunded" by selling lifetime ski passes (transferable once) for what is now probably, inflation adjusted, about 25 grand. Anybody else know of that happening way back? That would attract some capital.

Those lifetime passes are no longer valid, after two corporate buyouts, so, I guess lifetime is not always lifetime, unless you died young and pretty.

**kootenayskier** · 08-24-2016, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Shredhead

Red's a great hill. But it will always just be a regional resort, cause money can't fix elevation.

Yes. Despite their propensity for self-delusion, I'm sure that's finally become clear to the current owners. But what's a ski hill owner to do when they realize they're already in for way more than they can ever realistically recoup, and they're getting older and live half a continent away? Do you sit it out, hoping for a cashed-up buyer even more deluded than you or another recreational real-estate boom, or do you cut your losses and sell for cents on the dollar?