Cochise rivals.

[gaijin]

It seems the Cochise kind of owns this genre. Am I wrong?

How's the Praxis Freeride?
The 4frnt Gaucho?

What are other Cochise rivals you've ridden?

I need something to fit between my Renegade for the forest and my 84mm Jet Fuel groomer zoomer. But, I'm willing to bet whatever that 98-108 waisted ski is will ultimately replace my groomer zoomer all together. (If anyone has a line on cheap GS racestock-ish 185, I'll take them off your hands and remove my need for metal/bite in the ski that started this thread. )

I'm also really tempted to just get a Raven being as I'm so happy with the Ren. I'm only reluctant as I want a bit of on-piste bite (ala camber and/or metal.)

I don't race. But I do haul fucking ass in the forest on spring melt/freeze cluster fuck snow.

For my 2-ski resort quiver, the 84mm/2-sheets of metal Jet Fuel is just too heavy and not versatile enough. I"m convinced I can get the same bite out of something wider and perhaps even with a bit of tip/tail rocker.

Stoked to hear your thoughts.

[smooth operator]

I dont think the cochise is all that great on groomers. A bit dead due to the full rocker, no snap/pop/whateva you want to call it. I like the ski a lot, but If groomer performance is important to you, I'd look at something with a bit of camber. Salomon Q lab? Line supernatural, ..... 4frnt devastator? (Haven't skied any of these but do own a cochise, amongst others)

[adrenalated]

ON3P Wrenegade, Dynastar Pro Rider, in addition to the others mentioned

[Kopi_Red]

The new Head Monster series might fit the bill.

[nickwm21]

For my 2-ski resort quiver, the 84mm/2-sheets of metal Jet Fuel is just too heavy and not versatile enough. I"m convinced I can get the same bite out of something wider and perhaps even with a bit of tip/tail rocker.

Last season, I was simplifying my quiver down to two skis and sold my 193 Cochise because I do not think it is versatile enough. In its home turf, a big open bowl of crud, there is no better ski.... But, its too slow in bumps and trees, sinks in pow, does not spring you out of turns to make groomers fun, etc...

If you want 90% of the crud performance of a Cochise but want the ability to ski bumps and groomers, go Bonafide. That is what I did.

In a three ski quiver it definitely has it spot. Like a 88mm waisted ski, a 108mm (cochise) and a 125mm...
In my opinion a two ski quiver is a 98mm (bonafide) and a 116mm...

[mntlion]

I have loved every ski Eric has made, but HATTED the raven (3 tunes, 2 mounts, changed ramp etc)

Maybe the Zero G ? or Bonafide

[TahoeJ]

I spent two seasons on the original Cochise... and much of the last two on the ON3P Wrenegade 112. The latter can charge harder and is better in powder (less tip dive). And of course the new version is supposed to be a bit more versatile and comes in at 108 but I haven't been on it.

[XavierD]

Are we talking the old full rocker Cochise or the current carbon tip version? My 192s (carbon tip) is hardly boring, can rip a set of tracks into a groomer and floats fine in powder. It can be a chore in bumps, but otherwise is a very versatile ski. I've taken it on surprise powder days that turned into thigh deep days and not regretted leaving the wider skis at home.

Current competition however includes:
ON3P Wrenagade 108 (no metal)
Dynastar Pro Rider 105 (192cm only)
Armada Invictus 108
Line Supernatural 108
Others I am probably missing.

[Shredhead]

http://theskimonster.com/store/ski-g...FQ6maQodGKQG2Q

[alpinevibes]

It seems the Cochise kind of owns this genre. Am I wrong?

Depending on which Cochise, these have been mentioned around various iterations:

Line Supernatural 108
Moment Belafonte
Faction Ten
Fischer Big Stix 110

[gregL]

The Cochise rules in open terrain when you don't have to worry about shutting down speed or avoiding tightly spaced obstacles. It can school you in narrow chutes or trees, especially when the snow has some sort of 3D texture to it. Some skis I'd consider for a little more versatility are the new Salomon QST 106, the Armada ARV 106, and the Black Crows Atris.

[gaijin]

Thanks for all the feedback, guys! Bummer to hear mntlion didn't like the Raven. Care to elaborate as to why? Regardless, I'm not too interested until I update my touring rig.

If you want 90% of the crud performance of a Cochise but want the ability to ski bumps and groomers, go Bonafide. That is what I did.

In a three ski quiver it definitely has it spot. Like a 88mm waisted ski, a 108mm (cochise) and a 125mm...
In my opinion a two ski quiver is a 98mm (bonafide) and a 116mm...

That's the direction I'm moving now. Thank you. Shredhead has got me eyeing that Kastle, too.

MX 98 vs. Bonafide. Very different skis on paper.

Can that Kastle be finessed at medium speeds on variable snow in the forest? Or is it a tank?

[ScrewYou]

Can that Kastle be finessed at medium speeds on variable snow in the forest? Or is it a tank?

Sounds like you want a Line Supernatural 108, or last years on3p wren 102.

[gaijin]

Sounds like you want a Line Supernatural 108, or last years on3p wren 102.

I skied a Supernatural last spring was fairly impressed. But, I do think I am looking for something burlier and with less sidecut. The build was rad, just the wrong shape & tip flex for my fickleness.

I have never touched an ON3P anything. I'm intrigued, though.

So far that MX98, or the Pro Rider is about to drain my funds.

A) I never wish my 84 JetFuel was narrower & grippier.
B) I often wish it was wider, straighter and thus... surfier.
C) I often wish my OG 105 Gotama with a touring binding was burlier.

[cat in january]

Must be some good boating at the flowing compound, you are a little slow on this one

[phatty]

I'm on Salomon QLab as my daily driver and it meets the bill. Charges and can handle the bumps as good as my abilities. Floats good for its width.

[Shredhead]

So far that MX98, or the Pro Rider is about to drain my funds.

Just any FYI: I skied 194 LP's & XXL's for may years. I still have the LP's, but traded out the 194 XXL for the 187 MX108, because it's a little more versatile.
The 184 MX98 is much turnier that the LP's and you don't loose anything on the top end. They're not exactly forgiving, but if you have good technique, you can take them anywhere.

I also have the 180 Bones from two years ago. Not even close.

[tenB]

The new cochise 192 (carbon tip) is much better on groomers and can still go 60-0 quickly. It has more life at a slower speed, and It's better in powder too.

The old cochise 193 rips crud and takes more angulation to ski, and overall has a surfier feel. I thought it held well on groomers, especially going mach silly. Easier to ski in general then the new one. A little bit less life

[grskier]

Throw the Wailer 105/106 into the mix too.

[undertow2]

Another shout out for the Dynastar Legend Pro... I had the old school version in a 192 and it was the shit, but was stolen... I am drooling over the new reincarnated black sexy beast... I would also think the ON3P Wren 108 would scratch your itch as well... I have the Wren 98 on order and am stoked to get them on my feet..

[JRainey]

This year's Ravens skis much more like the other skis in the lineup . They have a constant sidecut radius. I have the old ones and like them too, but they don't ski like a renegade.

[toast2266]

Throw the Wailer 105/106 into the mix too.

The Wailer 105 is a waaaay different ski than the Wailer 106.

And neither of them have all that much in common with the Cochise.

[DGamms]

Like always Gaijin, it comes down to what you prioritize most.

Do you want this ski to be a daily driver?
Does groomer performance matter more than crud and chop performance? Will you be skiing the Rens instead in anything more than 6" of new?
Do care at all about skiing switching and/or spinning in the park?
Is titanal a requirement or just secondary to your preference for a stiff, heavy ski?
Do you like the reverse camber feel of your Rens and want that in a 105-110 underfoot ski too?
Do you like 4FRNTs progressive mount point of around -5 cm from true center, or are you looking for something more Volkl/Blizzard old school like -10 to -12 cm from true center?

The detailed answers to these questions would narrow down your search to just a few likely skis.

[LiveLarger]

The Wailer 105 is a waaaay different ski than the Wailer 106.

And neither of them have all that much in common with the Cochise.

Both the Wailer 105 in T2 construction and the Cochise are skis designed to do well in less than optimum conditions. So I'd imagine they have a reasonably similar use case?

Hence why Blister has compared Wailer 105 T2 and Cochise twice?

[toast2266]

Both the Wailer 105 in T2 construction and the Cochise are skis designed to do well in less than optimum conditions. So I'd imagine they have a reasonably similar use case?

Hence why Blister has compared Wailer 105 T2 and Cochise twice?

Yeah, I mean, they're both stiff skis that have a similar waist width and a long-ish sidecut. But on snow, they ski way different. The 105 is stiffer, far less smeary, and much less damp than the Cochise. Where the Cochise smooths things out, the 105 feels harsh and difficult. The 105 is way better on groomers though.