Tiling Contractors: What type of bathroom floor is this?

[Nobody Famous]

See attached picture.

No one I know has seen it before, a few have guessed it's named 'west coast web bed' or 'california wet floor' or something similar. The floor ia about 35-40 years old, in a condo in an urban area east coast, mid atlantic region.

From top to bottom, we have tile, a think layer of grout embedded in a heavy wire mesh, and then the sub floor. This was as strong AF, you'd have to drop a wrecking ball on it to do any damage.

[Svengali]

? Must have been a stucco guy who tiled on the side

I'd go to johnbridge.com - they know almost everything

[::: :::]

Old school traditional thick set?

[Art Shirk]

That's a jersey mud job, dude. Or at least that's what I've heard it called and it squares with your locale. Just crap work. Is there a Jesus stain in there anywhere?

[Svengali]

Its a thick set morter bed
I've demoed dozens of house reno's of all ages, here in Alaska; and have never personally seen one like that yet! ( that really means nothing though)

[Pow4Brains]

Diamond mesh, the duct tape of mortar.

[Vt-Freeheel]

Like Svengali said, thick set morter bed. It's what was used before Durock and Hardie Board came on the market. I tore up a bathroom a few years ago that was remodeled 4 years prior and the installer used this method to install terra cotta tiles. Took a lot of sledgehammer blows to get it out. Worked well as they bridged over the rotten subfloor under the toilet that I had to replace.

[Skidog]

Yep. I've seen this many times. Pain to demo but if you do it this way it ain't going anywhere so the wire mesh makes it solid as fuck. Looks like cement under it so this was an attempt (successful) to make sure the tile stuck. I've seen many contractors do this.

[Foggy_Goggles]

I love it when homeowners talk out there ass, it's good for business.

Using lath embedded in a lay of mortar was an tile technique from before cementitious underlaymets were common and affordable. If you truly understand tile (most don't) and grasp the concepts of de-coupling and the tile assembly, you'd probably know that this is actually a really effective methodology.

I've demoed litteraly hundereds of this floors and these ones really hold up. First, get a respirator. You will need a 3lbs sledge, a chipping hammer/power chisel/whatever you want to call it, a bunch of empty 5 gallon buckets for garbage and a few pair of work gloves.

Remove the tiles first, then power chisel the motor bed into sections and pull up the lath. The number of staples through the lath will make or break you. If you have a weak back, were skinny jeans, don't like getting dirty or have no perseverance, this job is not for you.

[Art Shirk]

I love it when homeowners talk out there ass, it's good for business.

Using lath embedded in a lay of mortar was an tile technique from before cementitious underlaymets were common and affordable. If you truly understand tile (most don't) and grasp the concepts of de-coupling and the tile assembly, you'd probably know that this is actually a really effective methodology.

I've demoed litteraly hundereds of this floors and these ones really hold up. First, get a respirator. You will need a 3lbs sledge, a chipping hammer/power chisel/whatever you want to call it, a bunch of empty 5 gallon buckets for garbage and a few pair of work gloves.

Remove the tiles first, then power chisel the motor bed into sections and pull up the lath. The number of staples through the lath will make or break you. If you have a weak back, were skinny jeans, don't like getting dirty or have no perseverance, this job is not for you.

Maybe we're all making assumptions here, but you are making two big ones to arrive at the conclusion that the above is good work. First, you'd have to assume that this work was done prior to the availability of cement backer boards, otherwise there's no reason to not use one and two, that it was deep enough. This could totally be the work of someone lazy.

[MMP]

i demoed a bathroom that had this on the floor and the walls. Time consuming to keep going to the basement to retrieve the jackhammer, but like foggy said, I'm no expert.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Tell me how to properly put down Hardi/Durarock/Fiberock etc., why it matters how deep the mortar bed is, what type of mortar should it be, how a tile assembly works, what decoupling is, and why, in your opinion, cementitious backer boards are a better underlayment.

No google allowed.

[Art Shirk]

Tell me how to properly put down Hardi/Durarock/Fiberock etc., why it matters how deep the mortar bed is, what type of mortar should it be, how a tile assembly works, what decoupling is, and why, in your opinion, cementitious backer boards are a better underlayment.

No google allowed.

It only matters how deep the mortar bed is if there's no board. And you secure the board with thin set mortar. I don't think I'm saying anything too controversial here. Why use a technique that was obviated by a better more predictable product?

[::: :::]

Traditional thick set is still considered a quality substrate for tile. It just takes up space, is heavy & takes a little skill to do right (i.e. labor- intensive).

Decoupling would be handled by a sand layer or a membrane slip sheet. Decoupling divorces the brittle tile layout from the main structure which may move and otherwise crack the tile. Also used with terrazzo and stone.

[RootSkier]

If you truly understand tile (most don't) and grasp the concepts of de-coupling and the tile assembly, you'd probably know that this is actually a really effective methodology.

Thank you for once again being the voice of reason.

I bet if commonlaw ever saw an old schooler float walls for tile he'd claim that was wrong, too.

[Nobody Famous]

This was not what we expected when demoing. It is however sturdy and strong AF. And you could tell it would have lasted a lifetime / very long time.

No one commented on the water proofness, I'm assuming it's as watertight as can be?

Had we known it was there would have re thought the rip n replace decision. Am planning to find a good tile settet and put the same thing down again

[Svengali]

Not a tile guy, nor one on the internet, just curious as to how "nobody famous's" tile job is considered "decoupled"

[Nobody Famous]

Not a tile guy, nor one on the internet, just curious as to how "nobody famous's" tile job is considered "decoupled"

I'm not sure it is. Will take a closer look this weekend.

The tile guy we've talked to for an estimate, supposed to be highly experienced, has seen it and he tossed out the names listed in the OP. The pic is the section we left in place around a toilet pipe closet bend so as not to damage. Demo around that area with a little more care and finesse is the idea. Tiler recommended putting back in place the same thing. That now becomes the question, ... any insights or opinions on this approach?

[::: :::]

i'd recommend listening to your contractor
if you don't trust them, get a second opinion as backup
i say this because there are a lot of unknowns from this side of the internet that someone on site can include in their understanding prior to offering a proposed strategy

whether it's worthwhile to use the same methodology could depend on a number of issues with the specific site

it's a condo, right? what floor?
what type of building construction (concrete, wood)?
how well did the original install work through its life?
what are the cost tradeoffs of an alternate approach?
are you moving plumbing around?

we're always happy to offer our uninformed opinions

[teleee]

Tell me how to properly put down Hardi/Durarock/Fiberock etc., why it matters how deep the mortar bed is, what type of mortar should it be, how a tile assembly works, what decoupling is, and why, in your opinion, cementitious backer boards are a better underlayment.

No google allowed.

This! And if the cost to re-install is the same I would use this system over any other. Bomb proof as fuck.