Brexit

[Game Over]

Well, what was he wrong about? He simply called a spade a spade and Bernie proved him right.

[narc]

By de facto we've just elected Boris Johnson. What's the difference?

Challenge from earlier in the thread still stands btw.

Giving this thread a miss when we just have idiots calling people cunts. Padded room or not this is pathetic behaviour from anyone.

[Hayduke]

-it would certainly be possible for the UK and the EU to negotiate trade treaties that are favorable to both sides while stopping the free migration of people from the EU to the UK. .

Unfortunately there are about 70-80 trade deals to be renegotiated. These require skilled negotiators of which the UK civil service currently has about 20. The required number to cover these deals over the next 2 years is in the hundreds.

The only reason I voted to remain is trade. I completely ignored the bullshit spouted by politicians and based my judgement people like this guy. It's worth watching from the beginning but the trade related stuff starts at 15.47 and it's sobering.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USTypBKEd8Y

[Phill]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but you really don't have to do much of anything to win a Nobel. Look at Obama.

Krugman deserved his nobel. You'll be hard pressed to find any economist that disagrees with that, even including the vast numbers who don't agree with his political punditry.

[old goat]

Krugman has been disappointing lately--too much politics (although I agree with most of what he says), not enough economics. What he was right about was the Great Recession and recovery--the need for stimulus, not austerity; the idea that Obama's stimulus wasn't enough; the disastrous effect of austerity on the European economy and especially the weak Eurozone economies. Events have proven him right--the weak US recovery while Europe has remained in recession. His take on Brexit was that the EU was a bad idea (especially the Eurozone, which the UK is of course not part of) but that withdrawing would still have a negative effect on the European and world economies, but not disastrous.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/17/op...exit.html?_r=0

Trigger warning--more liberal thinking: Another economist that makes sense to me is Robert Reich, who points out the negative effect of the concentration of wealth on the overall economy. More money in the hands of the wealthy is invested (and not in startups for the most part, but in existing corporations and in derivatives, futures, and other non productive investments) or salted away in the Cayman Islands, thereby being pulled out of the economy. More money in the hands of the so-called middle class and the poor is spent and therefore recirculated in the economy many times, making everyone wealthier (a concept understood by that reknowned socialist Henry Ford, who figured out that the way to sell cars was to pay the people who built them enough to buy them). As Thomas Piketty has demonstrated, while income in the US is more lopsided in the US than in Europe, wealth is more lopsided in Europe, so the overconcentration of wealth has a lot to do with the poor economic situation of the people in England who voted to leave.

[KQ]

Brexit: Do you #Regrexit? UK voters voice doubt over referendum choice

London (CNN)From Brexit to #Regrexit -- an online petition demanding a second referendum on Britain's decision to leave the EU has passed 2 million signatures.

By Saturday afternoon, more than 2 million people had signed the petition on the official UK Parliament website. That number takes it well over the 100,000-signature threshold needed to force a debate on the issue by members of Parliament.

A rush to sign the petition caused the website to crash temporarily due to the high volume of traffic.

The petition, set up by William Oliver Healey, states: "We the undersigned call upon [the UK] Government to implement a rule that if the Remain or Leave vote is less than 60%, based on a turnout less than 75%, there should be another referendum."

Thursday's referendum had a turnout of 72% -- an increase over last year's general election turnout of 66%, but below the 75% suggested in the petition.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/25/politi...xit/index.html

[iceman]

That would be kind of humorous if they reversed it. "Oh....never mind. Carry on."

[Doremite]

If Trump gets elected, can we have a "wow, that was dumb" do over too?

[schindlerpiste]

Scotland is getting ready for a 2nd independence referendum

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-...endum-36629331

[Tippster]

How many "I changed my mind" referenda can one island nation have in the span of a year? Let's find out.

[Doremite]

72% reads like a pretty strong turn out at least based on US standards. ~Half our country doesn't even bother with our presidential elections.

[splat]

'There's a hole in daddy's arm where all the money goes'

[bodywhomper]

Apologies if this has already been posted in one of the thee or four threads on this, but I thought that the British socialist take was interesting:
http://www.socialistalternative.org/...eral-election/

[Cono Este]

Apologies if this has already been posted in one of the thee or four threads on this, but I thought that the British socialist take was interesting:
http://www.socialistalternative.org/...eral-election/

What surprises me the most about this thread, or the world in general nowdays, is people who have no dog in this fight being so opinionated.

I have a British passport, but I've never lived in Britain. Its good fun to stir the pot, but Even I have no business ranting or whinning about this. Likewise Europeans who chatize the NRA. Why do they care if everyone around me in Saint Louis is fucking nuts?

I guess that is the reason why I feel globalization is rather odd.

Good to see you Hayduke.

[iceman]

I think it's quite possible that the pendulum swing towards globalization and corporate domination of economies has gone too far and that this was a needed pushback and will benefit England. The opposite is pretty much exactly as possible in my mind and it may be a disaster for England. I guess we'll see.

[Cono Este]

I think it's quite possible that the pendulum swing towards globalization and corporate domination of economies has gone too far and that this was a needed pushback and will benefit England. The opposite is pretty much exactly as possible in my mind and it may be a disaster for England. I guess we'll see.

Agreed, and if it is a disaster, its not ours. But, fortunately there's plenty of disaster to go around these days.

[fastfred]

Dude, Im at little league tournament in rural Mo. right now, and yes it can't get much worse from where I'm sitting. All these people are out of work, over weight, and on some sort of Welfare.

Being from San Fran, I know its hard for some to imagine.

There you go! They might not be unemployed, but they all make crap wages, with little to no benefits, weather they pretend to be democrat or republican they all have a hand in the cookie jar, hoping someone takes care of them.

Yeah, they are all fat, eat poorly, don't exercise, and have a long list of medications and conditions they are battling. All waiting for some sort of medicade or medicare policy to help them out.

these are the people who get brainwashed and bullshitted ever day, once they turn the tv off they might realized how hard they are getting duped

so this breexit shit is all about racisim immigrants someones ira and trade agreements, the us for example is getting taken by china and it's time for some higher tariffs on all this wall mart shit we're consumed with buying

When someone half way between bernie and donald shows up on the scene we might see change

[old goat]

There you go! They might not be unemployed, but they all make crap wages, with little to no benefits, weather they pretend to be democrat or republican they all have a hand in the cookie jar, hoping someone takes care of them.

Yeah, they are all fat, eat poorly, don't exercise, and have a long list of medications and conditions they are battling. All waiting for some sort of medicade or medicare policy to help them out.

these are the people who get brainwashed and bullshitted ever day, once they turn the tv off they might realized how hard they are getting duped

so this breexit shit is all about racisim immigrants someones ira and trade agreements, the us for example is getting taken by china and it's time for some higher tariffs on all this wall mart shit we're consumed with buying

When someone half way between bernie and donald shows up on the scene we might see change

There's about a hundred different points crammed into your post--I'll just comment on one. If we raise tariffs on imported shit at walmart, how will the people who have to shop at Walmart afford it? Do you think suddenly factories will open to make the shit in the US?
"Foreman says these jobs are going boys and they ain't coming back" --B. Springsteen

I'll give you a better solution--tax the piss out of the rich and hire people to rebuild this falling-apart country. Hire them to install universal free WiFi, just like the civilized countries. Sound like socialism to you? Probably the biggest boons to the economy since WWII have been the interstate highway system, started under Ike, and the internet, started by the DOD.

(And what to do with all the African and Muslim immigrants causing chaos in Europe--easy solution for that one too--draft all the military age men, train them, and send them back under Western officers to fight ISIS and Boko Haram. Yeah, I know what happened when we armed the Afghans to fight the Soviets, but let's ignore that; this is all just a fantasy.)

[stfu&gbtw]

There's about a hundred different points crammed into your post--I'll just comment on one. If we raise tariffs on imported shit at walmart, how will the people who have to shop at Walmart afford it? Do you think suddenly factories will open to make the shit in the US?
"Foreman says these jobs are going boys and they ain't coming back" --B. Springsteen

I'll give you a better solution--tax the piss out of the rich and hire people to rebuild this falling-apart country. Hire them to install universal free WiFi, just like the civilized countries. Sound like socialism to you? Probably the biggest boons to the economy since WWII have been the interstate highway system, started under Ike, and the internet, started by the DOD.

(And what to do with all the African and Muslim immigrants causing chaos in Europe--easy solution for that one too--draft all the military age men, train them, and send them back under Western officers to fight ISIS and Boko Haram. Yeah, I know what happened when we armed the Afghans to fight the Soviets, but let's ignore that; this is all just a fantasy.)

Just to be clear, the DOD didn't develop what we think of as the Internet. The US government did subsidize a significant portion of the infrastructure development, but unlike highways, most network infrastructure assets that carry business/personal traffic are privately owned. Nearly 100% are privately O&M'd, even if they're publically owned. DOT infrastructure is a bad analogy.

[neck beard]

That would be kind of humorous if they reversed it.

Tixreb.

From the very start they seem to have adopted a fatalistic self-destruct attitude, like the referendum would be "god's" unmovable word. And now it happened, key players on both sides are falling over themselves to make it happen, like children who want to suffer to make a point of how terrible the situation is. "Too late now". No it isn't. Pull your pants up and get a fucking grip, drama queens. Imagine if you let the population vote every government decision this way? It would be a disaster.

I hope they enjoy their unelected goofball Boris at the helm during an incredibly difficult few year. The UK just downgraded themselves in the the history books. Again. But who cares. British history for the last 2000 or so years has been incredibly varied and continues to be so. Like the US but different, they are a cutting-edge national experiment. The world needs these experiments.

[old goat]

Just to be clear, the DOD didn't develop what we think of as the Internet. The US government did subsidize a significant portion of the infrastructure development, but unlike highways, most network infrastructure assets that carry business/personal traffic are privately owned. Nearly 100% are privately O&M'd, even if they're publically owned. DOT infrastructure is a bad analogy.

I didn't say say the DOD built it; I said they started it--in the form of the Arpanet. As far as analogies--how is DOT infrastructure a bad analogy for DOT infrastructure? And for that matter, I didn't make an analogy. I said that infrastructure development improves the economy and that spending now on maintaining the infrastructure will improve the economy. Unlike supply-side economic voodoo, spending on infrastructure will actually reduce deficits by increasing tax revenues from people put to work and reducing spending on unemployment insurance and other forms of assistance. In addition improved infrastructure will improve business efficiency and hence profits and in the long run more than make up for the increased taxes on the "makers" class. Infrastructure spending did so with the interstate highway system and it will do it again if we invest tax dollars in it now.

[iceman]

A large majority people from both parties support investment in infrastructure but our fucked-up politicians still can't get it done because they can't stand agreeing with each other so have to argue useless details to paralyze action. It's disgraceful.

[MTT]

The 2Million + Internet pol is a joke.

Whats the qualification to cast an E-Vote?

There are 3 billion people in India alone, so watch for a really big number that officially means DICK

I thinks this is exactly what the Brits just voted out. The whole frikin world telling them what to do,??

The Pol was actually on the Mass Media TV news tonight. Like it was a significant thing??

[BmillsSkier]

The best reason I've seen for the UK to vote 'stay'.

Shame more people didn't see this.

[stfu&gbtw]

I didn't say say the DOD built it; I said they started it--in the form of the Arpanet. As far as analogies--how is DOT infrastructure a bad analogy for DOT infrastructure? And for that matter, I didn't make an analogy. I said that infrastructure development improves the economy and that spending now on maintaining the infrastructure will improve the economy. Unlike supply-side economic voodoo, spending on infrastructure will actually reduce deficits by increasing tax revenues from people put to work and reducing spending on unemployment insurance and other forms of assistance. In addition improved infrastructure will improve business efficiency and hence profits and in the long run more than make up for the increased taxes on the "makers" class. Infrastructure spending did so with the interstate highway system and it will do it again if we invest tax dollars in it now.

Arpanet is only similar to the internet in the sense that was a packet switching network using TCP/IP. There was no internet-like infrastructure associated with it, nor was it developed with the intention that it would become a public network. It is far less true to say that Arpanet spawned the internet, than it is to say that the interstate highway system spawned road travel capabilities.