Brexit

[lionelhutz]

Wonder if this will affect US-EU flights connecting through London...

... what happens at the Chunnel?

Well they don't appear to want to leave the Schengen Zone...so apparently while they want independence, they don't want to go through extra passport control....

[Adolf Allerbush]

Wonder if this will affect US-EU flights connecting through London...

... what happens at the Chunnel?

My understanding is that this won't effect the Island of Sodor.

[assman]

Bravo to the Brits for forcing this. Hopefuly the entire EU folds as a result. The globalists got their ass handed to them which if you are appreciative of personal freedom and strong borders is a good thing.

The Brexit contagion: France, Italy and the Netherlands now want their referendum too

[summit]

Bravo to the Brits for forcing this. Hopefuly the entire EU folds as a result. The globalists got their ass handed to them which if you are appreciative of personal freedom and strong borders is a good thing.

The Brexit contagion: France, Italy and the Netherlands now want their referendum too

Le Pen can sit and spin

[Art Shirk]

Who's that?

They are into a New Order

[Benny Profane]

Oh. I thought they had a spikey hair 90s look.

[iceman]

They are into a New Order

Seems apropos...



...power, corruption and lies...

[BmillsSkier]

Who gets Ginger Spice in the divorce?

[Kenny Satch]

They are into a New Order

Bizarre Love Triangle

[hutash]

I suspect this will end one of two ways...As Assman says, the other relatively well off countries will want their own autonomy, the EU will totally fold up, and Europe will reset to it's old ways of strife,hate, border wars and a couple centuries of economic instability...just as it has always been. The other route is that this referendum will largely be ignored, or more likely people will come to their senses as the Pound plummets, the British stock market tanks, and all the things people warned about start to come true, i.e. Brits living abroad face backlash, travel become very difficult, cost of goods skyrocket, etc.

This should be a forewarning of electing Trump.

[jamesp]

the US election might be too soon to see the real effect of the Brexit

[Timberridge]

I suspect this will end one of two ways...As Assman says, the other relatively well off countries will want their own autonomy, the EU will totally fold up, and Europe will reset to it's old ways of strife,hate, border wars and a couple centuries of economic instability...just as it has always been. The other route is that this referendum will largely be ignored, or more likely people will come to their senses as the Pound plummets, the British stock market tanks, and all the things people warned about start to come true, i.e. Brits living abroad face backlash, travel become very difficult, cost of goods skyrocket, etc.

This should be a forewarning of electing Trump.

I also hear the gulf stream may be changing direction and if so could plunge the "formerly Great" Britain and northern Europe into a mini ice age.

https://ec.europa.eu/research/rtdinf...e_2603_en.html

[klar]

if you are appreciative of personal freedom and strong borders ...

I understand a lot of the arguments people make against the EU, but this one about personal freedom honestly confuses me.

I have lived, studied, and worked in countries other than my own for almost half my life and didn't have to think twice about it, not to mention that I felt easily at home in all of them. I can drive to Italy for coffee or ice cream on a whim, I can ski, hike, bike over borders without noticing, go on a road trip to three countries in as many hours. All of that is a big part of what I consider my personal freedom and I'd be pissed if that gets taken away. Those countries I can ski or hike to all have their own regional and national traditions and customs. Cultural differences are still there and having them so easily accessible is, to me, enriching.

I've been thinking about this and I really can't come up with something where me being a citizen of an EU country has in any way affected my personal freedom in anything but a positive manner. What would be an example of personal freedoms being curbed by something EU related?

While the olds may remember the war, they also benefitted in full from the UK's extraordinary economic success while in the EU (look it up) and are now pulling the ladder up behind them on the generation whose taxes are supposed to pay their pensions. Nice...

I suppose it is part of the democratic process that different groups win at different times. This time the notorious old white men won. Recent examples where they didn't were Canada and, as skiqunst mentioned, Austria (that was incredibly close). It can be done but it takes a serious, consolidated effort from other groups. It would be nice if this referendum leads to more people of my generation getting actively involved with politics and if the EU changed the things that need changing.

This whole thing is partly about the EU as an institution and partly about extremely right wing, nationalist movements gaining power. I can deal with the EU part but it does rankle that this is such a big victory for certain groups all over europe that are pushing an agenda that is often openly racist and, in my opinion, a terrible reaction to global problems that wont just go away because we close our eyes and our borders.

This comment on some FT article expressing a sentiment that most of the people I know share seems to be going a bit viral:

[The AD]

I can understand how so many are saddened by this, and it's obviously going to have consequences none of us can predict, but my gut instinct is that the only constant in the history of Europe has been change. It's difficult for me to get real worked up about it.

[ClarkleberryFinn]

As a Brit living in Austria, I'm shamed and saddened by this vote. I've always been proud to be British (as long as I can be it outside Britain), but now I find myself hoping for the demise of the UK so I can get a Scottish passport.

The worst thing about it is the total lies and misinformation spread by the Leave campaign (tbd, the remain campaign was pretty shockingly awful too). Boris Johnson driving around on a bus covered in slogans about giving the EU £350 a week, which so many ignorant people still believe(d) despite the widespread and conclusive proof that it was a load of bollocks.

I truly think a large proportion of the leave voters really don't understand the situation: they don't understand that the very small percentage we pay to the EU results in hundreds of billions of trade back, they don't understand the difference between EU migration and the refugee crisis, they don't understand that many of the things they complain about have been caused by the UK government not the EU (for example who sets who gets what of the UK fishing quota). They don't understand the incredible privilege they've just voted to dump, with the absolute right to live and work in so many incredible countries - which will seem like much more of a loss in 15 years time when (with improved VR tech) everyone is working remotely so they wouldn't need to learn a pesky foreign language to live/work somewhere with better food and better weather.

Instead they've been whipped up into an ignorant whirl of xenophobia and nationalism by sly and calculating (and in some cases outright racist) politicians, with meaningless phrases like 'take back control' and options of sovereignty. Sovereignty to do what? Reduce workers rights, and allow business to force people to work 50 hour weeks with no paid holiday? Kick out the skilled EU migrants who are net contributors to the UK?

Sure the EU has its problems, and I think it definitely does need reform. But instead of working towards that, and working to improve the lot of every other country in the EU, we've voted ourselves into recession and thrown away some incredible privileges.

Because of scaremongering and lies. Build the walls and dig the fucking moat, the foreigners are coming and they want your jobs and your money. The whole thing is characterised by talk of Poles living 10 to a house so they can out-compete British plumbers for work on price, and all the UK taxes that go to Bulgaria or to Greek bailouts.

Of course the protagonists haven't been to Poland, and don't realise it's not a third world slum; they've also forgotten that Britain has (had, shit!) such a good deal with the EU that we are exempt from paying for Greek bailouts. No thoughts that if a Pole can come to the UK and out-compete a Brit for work in his/her second language, they just might do a better job.

I don't dispute that there are some understandable reasons to vote leave, and I'm not saying that everyone who voted leave is an under-educated xenophobic fascist... But it's pretty evident that are a significant number who fit that description very well. I also can't deny that clearly I'm biased, as preserving my right to live and work in Austria is pretty damn important to me (will be interesting to see what I'm eligible for first: a Scottish passport or Austrian citizenship).

It's worth noting what the second most asked question on google in the UK is right now:

[plugboots]

I understand a lot of the arguments people make against the EU, but this one about personal freedom honestly confuses me.

I have lived, studied, and worked in countries other than my own for almost half my life and didn't have to think twice about it, not to mention that I felt easily at home in all of them. I can drive to Italy for coffee or ice cream on a whim, I can ski, hike, bike over borders without noticing, go on a road trip to three countries in as many hours. All of that is a big part of what I consider my personal freedom and I'd be pissed if that gets taken away. Those countries I can ski or hike to all have their own regional and national traditions and customs. Cultural differences are still there and having them so easily accessible is, to me, enriching.

I've been thinking about this and I really can't come up with something where me being a citizen of an EU country has in any way affected my personal freedom in anything but a positive manner. What would be an example of personal freedoms being curbed by something EU related?




I suppose it is part of the democratic process that different groups win at different times. This time the notorious old white men won. Recent examples where they didn't were Canada and, as skiqunst mentioned, Austria (that was incredibly close). It can be done but it takes a serious, consolidated effort from other groups. It would be nice if this referendum leads to more people of my generation getting actively involved with politics and if the EU changed the things that need changing.

This whole thing is partly about the EU as an institution and partly about extremely right wing, nationalist movements gaining power. I can deal with the EU part but it does rankle that this is such a big victory for certain groups all over europe that are pushing an agenda that is often openly racist and, in my opinion, a terrible reaction to global problems that wont just go away because we close our eyes and our borders.

This comment on some FT article expressing a sentiment that most of the people I know share seems to be going a bit viral:

Just got off a conference call with a guy from the UK. Summary:

Ignorant people can vote, and they're scared of things they don't understand.

[The AD]

Boris Johnson driving around on a bus covered in slogans about giving the EU £350 a week, which so many ignorant people still believe(d) despite the widespread and conclusive proof that it was a load of bollocks.

Not to say politicians have ever been known for their honesty and integrity, but it does seem like stating out and out lies is becoming more commonplace and the tactic seems to be if you just repeat it enough it somehow becomes fact.

[plugboots]

Not to say politicians have ever been known for their honesty and integrity, but it does seem like stating out and out lies is becoming more commonplace and the tactic seems to be if you just repeat it enough it somehow becomes fact.

This is it, and it works.

[cinnepa]

Maybe they'll come with a better dental plan now.

[PNWbrit]

LONDON (The Borowitz Report)—Across the United Kingdom on Friday, Britons mourned their long-cherished right to claim that Americans were significantly dumber than they are.

Luxuriating in the superiority of their intellect over Americans’ has long been a favorite pastime in Britain, surpassing in popularity such games as cricket, darts, and snooker.

But, according to Alistair Dorrinson, a pub owner in North London, British voters have done irreparable damage to the “most enjoyable sport this nation has ever known: namely, treating Americans like idiots.”

“When our countrymen cast their votes yesterday, they didn’t realize they were destroying the most precious leisure activity this nation has ever known,” he said. “Wankers.”

In the face of this startling display of national idiocy, Dorrinson still mustered some of the resilience for which the British people are known. “This is a dark day,” he said. “But I hold out hope that, come November, Americans could become dumber than us once more.”

[stuckathuntermtn]

Britain has always had a weird relationship with the rest of the Continent. Shit, they drive on the other side of the road, use a different electrical socket, aren't really multilingual (don't really have to be), often still use miles per hour and feet, etc, never used the Euro. I keep thinking of Eddie Izzard talking about this topic almost 20 years ago.
And just because they leave the EU, does that automatically mean they leave the Shengen Agreement? (Passport free movement). Switzerland is part of it, but not in the EU.
I don't understand the finer detail of EU membership, but it always seemed from far away that the UK was not really a full fledged member.
I wonder if we'll see a Split movement in Ireland. I don't see them splitting, since they're on the Euro, which would make that a much more painful deal, but they have a lot of ties to the UK and don't even have a Chunnel type thing.
I doubt it would even come to a vote there. What would you even call that? Ixit? Eixit? Eirexit? Doesn't roll off the tongue like Brexit.
Brexit Brexit Brexit. It's fun to say!
And £190M a week to be in the EU seems like a lot.

[hutash]

“But I hold out hope that, come November, Americans could become dumber than us once more.”

Please don't let us be as dumb as twodogs.

[PNWbrit]

And just because they leave the EU, does that automatically mean they leave the Shengen Agreement? (Passport free movement).

Errr technically UK isn't in Schengen... it negotiated an opt out. Like it did with lots of other EU stuff.

I wonder if we'll see a Split movement in Ireland. I don't see them splitting, since they're on the Euro, which would make that a much more painful deal, but they have a lot of ties to the UK and don't even have a Chunnel type thing.

Huh?

The Republic of Ireland vote to eave the EU? Not happening..

Sinn Fein this morning calling for Irish Union referendum though. Since NI voted overwhelmingly to stay in EU.

[LightRanger]

Errr technically UK isn't in Schengen... it negotiated an opt out. Like it did with lots of other EU stuff.

And that's the best part of this... the UK already didn't have to deal with most of the worst aspects of the EU:
http://www.businessinsider.com/brexi...happens-2016-6

Other interesting/stupid shit I've seen this morning:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...g-to-leave-it/

http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/24/man-wh...award-5964450/

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f4dcdf62-3...#axzz4CW6vIl9r

I could seriously see buyer's remorse getting bad enough that this thing reverses course (if the other 27 allow it...).

Also, this is funny:

[stuckathuntermtn]

I can understand how so many are saddened by this, and it's obviously going to have consequences none of us can predict, but my gut instinct is that the only constant in the history of Europe has been change. It's difficult for me to get real worked up about it.

Yeah. Um. Won't the UK still have to act like a de facto EU member? Switzerland and Norway do, to an extent. UK products will still have to meet EU standards to be sold in the EU. Much of what the UK buys will have been made to an EU (or US) standard.
It sounds like a lot of this is down to fear of immigrants. The whole thing seems very, well, American.