How to get in good physical shape?

[auvgeek]

I think that this argument is most valid against machines that are more "synthetic", such as the leg extension or what you might call nonfunctional.

To be clear, my post was only geared towards your use of the leg press and leg extension as the primary exercises to build leg strength. I'm simply recommending (politely) that you consider squatting instead.

[Buster Highmen]

To be clear, my post was only geared towards your use of the leg press and leg extension as the primary exercises to build leg strength. I'm simply recommending (politely) that you consider squatting instead.

OK, I'm 6', about 180 lbs now, not in great shape, but I can run up 4 flights of stairs and regain normal breathing in a minute, so not terrible either.
How much weight?

[TAFKALVS]

OK, I'm 6', about 180 lbs now, not in great shape, but I can run up 4 flights of stairs and regain normal breathing in a minute, so not terrible either.
How much weight?

Start with an empty bar and add weight in 20 lb increments until the bar speed slows. Then add 5 - 10lbs per workout, for 3-5 sets or 3-5 reps. Mark Rippetoe's book Starting Strength would be a helpful resource.

[auvgeek]

Okay, let's talk recovery. What are you guys finding works best? Below are some notes on what I do or have tried:

General
Sleep. 8-9 hours a night every night. HUGE difference for recovery over 6 hours.
Hydration Again, huge difference. I drink ~4 L per day.
Contrast showers 1 min of hot; 30 seconds of cold. Just started doing these, but they seem to aid recovery pretty substantially. I can't bring myself to do them in the morning, so I do them at night.
Ice Baths I hate these so I only do them when I'm really, really sore. I think you need to be careful to balance the benefits against the hit to your immune system. Don't get sick!
Stretching Doesn't seem to do much for recovery, but I'm trying to stretch more for injury prevention.
Electric Stimulation The wifey and I were fortunate enough to have our parents buy us one for Christmas last year. I don't think it helps as much as sleep or a lax ball, but it's something. Right now, I wouldn't necessarily recommend purchasing one.

Trigger Point/Myofascial Release
Dry needling If you can find/afford someone to do this, this is the absolute BEST release I have found.
Foam Rolling General foam rolling has been pretty useless for me. But I spend about an hour a day hitting my trigger points on a lacrosse ball. I put pressure on a painfully tight muscle (glute, ITB, piriformis, TFL, etc) at the trigger point until it spasms and releases. Controlled breathing and concentration are a must to get the muscle to relax. I recently purchased a body back buddy and jocknobber to hit areas that are hard to reach with a lax ball like psoas. Not sure if it helps much with "recovery" specifically, but my injury rate has decreased substantially since doing it regularly.
Massage I used to go 1x/week, but it doesn't seem to help as much as dry needling for about the same cost. But it does help.
Graston Technique Doesn't seem to impact recovery much, but I've had it be helpful for treating tendonitis.

What else works for you?

[auvgeek]

Start with an empty bar and add weight in 20 lb increments until the bar speed slows. Then add 5 - 10lbs per workout, for 3-5 sets or 3-5 reps. Mark Rippetoe's book Starting Strength would be a helpful resource.

I took LVS' recommendation on this about a year ago, and it has worked well for me.

[TAFKALVS]

Okay, let's talk recovery. What are you guys finding works best? Below are some notes on what I do:

General
Sleep. 8-9 hours a night every night. HUGE difference for recovery over 6 hours.
Contrast showers 1 min of hot; 30 seconds of cold. Taking one the night after a hard workout seems to aid recovery pretty substantially.
Ice Baths I hate these so I only do them when I'm really, really sore. I think you need to be careful to balance the benefits against the hit to your immune system. Don't get sick!
Stretching Doesn't seem to do much for recovery, but I try to stretch tight areas (quads, hip flexors, adductors) when I remember. I don't stretch hamstrings because (as mentioned before) I have anterior pelvic tilt, so my hamstrings are already long even though they feel "tight."
Electric Stimulation jesski and I were fortunate enough to have our parents buy us one for Christmas last year. I don't think it helps as much as sleep or a lax ball, but it's something.

Trigger Point/Myofascial Release
Dry needling If you can find/afford someone to do this, this is the absolute BEST release I have found.
Foam Rolling General foam rolling has been pretty useless for me, but I spend about an hour a day hitting my trigger points on a lacrosse ball. I put pressure on a painfully tight muscle (glute, ITB, etc) at the trigger point until it spasms and releases. Controlled breathing and concentration are a must to get the muscle to relax. I recently purchased a body back buddy and jocknobber to hit areas that are hard to reach with a lax ball like psoas.
Massage I used to go 1x/week, but it doesn't seem to help as much as dry needling for about the same cost. But it does help.
Graston Technique Doesn't seem to impact recovery much, but I've had it be helpful for treating tendonitis.

What else works for you?

http://www.roguefitness.com/voodoo-floss-bands

These can really help when I've got bad DOMS in the quads or shoulders. I'll wrap a problem area and then do a full ROM movement like a push-up or shoulder press. It helps.

[auvgeek]

^^Ah, yes! Forgot to add those in. I have kind of stopped using since I started going at it harder with the lax ball, but maybe I'll start again.

Another thing I've considered is sleeping in compression tights. Might get a pair and report back. My concern is that I sleep really hot, and I'm nervous they'll impede my sleeping.

[TAFKALVS]

Another thing I've considered is sleeping in compression tights. Might get a pair and report back.

You're such an engineer. ;-)

My only worry with something like that is I might not sleep as well, negating any benefit.

The other thing I've found really helps is taking the dogs for a 45 minute walk with Mrs. LVS. Don't forget about the basic stuff, like it's healthy to get fresh air and walk a little bit. I know its not as exciting as playing human lab rat with electrodes and spandex, but it works really well when I'm feeling stiff/sore/tired, etc.

[2FUNKY]

Lots of good points on recovery but with all that said, the biggest thing I notice for better recovery for me is nutrition. Eating clean and the proper amounts, more cals, and carbs the day after leg day help tremendously for me with recovery.

[::: :::]

yoga is good for loosening up too


if you're spending time in a chair during the day, just getting out and walking at lunch is helpful

[neufox47]

Hey Buster - not the end of the world doing leg extensions but they can be hard on the knee while not replicating a force found in skiing (pushing from the front of the ankle without foot or hip involvement) but here are the links.

Rear foot elevated split squat (abbreviated RFE or RFESS) - this is a knee dominant exercise, ie prime mover is quad:
Demonstration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mudRzAmfgxE

Indepth talk to coaches about coaching the RFE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaXttrJcVTA

Progressed to the max, dynamic weighted RFE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX-8e06pGuI

As discussed in the long video normal progression is split squat (sounds like you have that covered); then RFE, start at the bottom position and reset to that position each rep. Keep as much weight as possible on your front foot, back is for balance only. If you start relying on your back foot, reduce or eliminate the weight. Once you are comfortable with the movement unwieghted, hold weight in goblet position. Once you can no longer find a dumbell or kettlebell heavy enough, go to holding one dumbell in each hand.

One leg Squat - this is maybe the best single exercise for skiing IMO. It is hip dominant but requires a lot of knee / quad strength. It also requires deep core strength and stability, it trains the knee to track correctly, and is a ACL pre-hab / injury prevention tool / often the test used to allow knee injured athletes to get back on the field (ie you can play once you can do a one legged squat to parallel.

Here is a video of good form weighted - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQIvJaWgAJk

As you can see in the video, he is standing on a platform squatting to a higher box. Without being standing on a elevated surface, the non-weight bearing foot is hard to keep in the air. Start going to a box, don't sit down, just barely touch the box. Goal is to progress it to parallel before you add significant weight. However, holding 5lbs or so in each hand helps with form in most people, ymmv. Once you can do sets to parallel without weight, then you can start increasing weight in hands, or go to a goblet hold.

Here is a video of it progressed to a pistol (no box and on a high elevated platform) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P5j1DBEDEQ

Progression is squat to depth you can get to with good form and no weight, then increase depth until parallel, then add weight. For skiing, no point in going below parallel.

Single leg deadlift - hip dominant exercise (ie glute); link is to one of the coaches article - much better than I can do
https://coachkevincarr.wordpress.com...leg-dead-lift/

Some other good stuff:

Warmup - if you don't have one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJWoSlTrxw0

Cable chops https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpLPtw8LVNg - great for anti rotation core strength that we need for skiing

Lateral squats - that position look somewhat familiar? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mdUMXbdBkE


Im in the camp strongly against someone like yourself (age, goals, etc) doing barbell back squats. Goblet squats are great https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS9y8s39_fM

Got to run, tons of other good stuff here https://www.youtube.com/user/mbscvideo

[Dantheman]

Hydration Again, huge difference. I drink about 5 L per day.

That's definitely excessive and unnecessary.

if you're spending time in a chair during the day, just getting out and walking at lunch is helpful

Try and get a few minutes of activity every hour.

[Norseman]

Solid post, fox

[auvgeek]

neufox, great post with good videos.

I have a question, though: why do you think a low-bar back squat (like the one outlined in Starting Strength) is inappropriate for Buster? I am not personally knowledgable enough to comment on its advantages or disadvantages compared to single-leg squats or RFE split squats for someone of Buster's age, so I'd like to understand your thinking.

I do all three regularly, and I like all three. I especially like the single-leg exercises for rehabbing injuries. But I've also decided back squats work the best for me to get strong. There are other things that work better to build the explosive power needed for skiing, but nothing works as well to build pure strength.

That's definitely excessive and unnecessary.

Can you provide some evidence to back that up? Maybe my estimate was a bit high, and I edited my post to that effect. But I can feel a huge difference between 2L and 4L per day. I also occasionally take electrolyte supplements and always eat plenty of veggies to avoid the dreaded "over hydrating."

[neufox47]

Well, my thoughts are not my own ideas. There is a great talk on this from Mike about why they stopped programming them except for lineman and a few other positions.

Tl;Dr version - Back squat is beneficial but the risks are high, it is hard to train correctly, and without good form injury odds go way up. Shear forces on spine are high. Same or similar (some would argue superior) results can be achieved with different lifts. One that I didn't include because that post was for Buster is trap bar deadlift.

[Dantheman]

Can you provide some evidence to back that up? Maybe my estimate was a bit high, and I edited my post to that effect. But I can feel a huge difference between 2L and 4L per day. I also occasionally take electrolyte supplements and always eat plenty of veggies to avoid the dreaded "over hydrating."

That's more reasonable, especially if you're on the larger side. If you're not peeing constantly and it makes you feel better then great. AFAIK, there's little evidence indicating that more than simply drinking to thirst is beneficial. Personally, more than 2.5-3 L/day and I'll never stop pissing.

[snapt]

Can you provide some evidence to back that up? Maybe my estimate was a bit high, and I edited my post to that effect. But I can feel a huge difference between 2L and 4L per day. I also occasionally take electrolyte supplements and always eat plenty of veggies to avoid the dreaded "over hydrating."

Scientific consensus these days is literally drink when you're thirsty. If not thirsty, then don't over do it.

[Bronco]

....without good form injury odds go way up....

Can't this be said for any weighted exercise?

This looks pretty safe, I mean what could possibly go wrong here?

[2stix]

K

[Toadman]

Well, my thoughts are not my own ideas. There is a great talk on this from Mike about why they stopped programming them except for lineman and a few other positions.

Tl;Dr version - Back squat is beneficial but the risks are high, it is hard to train correctly, and without good form injury odds go way up. Shear forces on spine are high. Same or similar (some would argue superior) results can be achieved with different lifts. One that I didn't include because that post was for Buster is trap bar deadlift.

I did barbell squats for decades. Was always told by coaches that I was the gold standard for how to do them correctly. I was not by any means a heavy lifter, and never did squats for maximum weight but more for higher reps.

Well, I ended up getting injured just doing squats with a 100lbs. Probably could have warmed up a bit more. You don't realzie as you get older you need to slow down and tone it down a bit. Popped my Sacroiliac joint. Not fun. Have had to do serious core workouts just to maintain stability. Don't do back barbell squats anymore. Will still do high rep barbell squats with weight on the front. I like the roman one legged squats. Weighted dumbell lunges and the Goblet squats.

[auvgeek]

That's more reasonable, especially if you're on the larger side. If you're not peeing constantly and it makes you feel better then great. AFAIK, there's little evidence indicating that more than simply drinking to thirst is beneficial. Personally, more than 2.5-3 L/day and I'll never stop pissing.

Well, it appears we all have our own regulators on this. I'm not peeing constantly, and I didn't realize 4L would be enough to cause that in some people. My bad, and wasn't trying to spark a debate. I was just trying to say that staying hydrated helps me with recovery. I never drink beyond thirst, but I often get really focused on work or whatever and forget to hydrate. Guess I should note that besides a single espresso in the morning, water is all I ever drink.

Anyway, I'm out for a while...unless Buster wants to learn me why the product of two Hermitian matrices is diagonalizable if one of them is p.d.

[deciblast]

I recommend body weight (calisthenics)
http://www.startbodyweight.com/p/sta...c-routine.html
https://www.reddit.com/r/bodyweightf...mended_routine

+
barbell squats / deadlift or mix up with a powerlifting/stronglift type routine

[yllib]

go mountain biking and rock climbing

[criscam]

I consider myself to be in decent shape. I do some kind of "workout" pretty much everyday. I'm kinda all over the map w/ my workouts though just to keep me interested as well as just due to time constraints.
Usually mt bike or run 2-3x/week (in winter it's skiing or run 2-3x/week). my other "workouts" range from 2-3 yoga sessions/wk (some w/ light weights), some 10-20 min hiit workouts, and some at home WOD's w minimal equipment (mostly pushups, situps, air squats, lunges, etc). again pretty random on what and when although I try to leave a day between some of the "strength" type workouts.
don't have any goals I'm really shooting for (weight loss etc) other than overall health after 40 and a hut trip later this winter.
I know just doing something is good but wondering if I should have more of a set routine to get better results?

[Toadman]

I consider myself to be in decent shape. I do some kind of "workout" pretty much everyday. I'm kinda all over the map w/ my workouts though just to keep me interested as well as just due to time constraints.

I know just doing something is good but wondering if I should have more of a set routine to get better results?

Definitely keep a log, measure your water intake, (and outflow?) and get a power meter(Sarcasm)

Randomness in a workout IMO is a good thing. The whole muscle confusion thing seems to help. I have a tendency to get a bit OCD with my workouts, and not switch things up enough. Trying to break that habit this year.