Elon Musk: Smartest Guy in The World or Complete Clown?

**Mustonen** · 04-21-2022, 08:47 AM

Sure. Capitalism and individualism will do that. I don’t know that you’re wrong, though. Is it because these people, partially through their sociopathy, drive a change that would otherwise not be realized, or is it because these people position themselves for credit?

Pushing through barriers and upsetting norms requires a special kind of asshole, sometimes.

Or maybe not.

**frorider** · 04-21-2022, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by Mustonen

Yeah. To be successful in some roles you have to be a bit of a sociopath. Do we need these people? Kinda….

https://medium.com/@rdesai01/are-soc...y-48f8a19d92cb

**CarlMega** · 04-21-2022, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by Mustonen

Is it because these people, partially through their sociopathy, drive a change that would otherwise not be realized,

I have a theory that our society would realize the exact same useful and practical changes without these sociopaths, just a few years later. The push, the drive, is all driven by a need to be "first" and put a stake in the ground for their claim to fortunes. Thus money (and ego) is primarily driving the urgency. But change would happen just the same but a bit later, probably a bit less singular in the claims and ideally more widespread.

There are examples in history of basically a collective consciousness of realization. Generally, it's not one big idea from one person out of the blue. It's several people and groups roughly same idea and roughly the same time... even if without connection to each other... spooky almost. But alas first gets the glory and spoils.

tldr; we don't need "titans'. we'll be fine.

**heckacali** · 04-21-2022, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

Do we? Putting the spotlight on these people ignores the countless people that enabled these people to achieve their level of “success” and the people like Musk, Bezos, Zuckerberg etc. rarely if ever acknowledge that fact. They may have had a great idea but it’s nothing without the labor and intellect of others. Why do so many people idolize the super rich and fail to realize that they are nothing without us?

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

*Martin Eberhard raises hand*

**Ted Striker** · 04-21-2022, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by CarlMega

There are examples in history of basically a collective consciousness of realization. Generally, it's not one big idea from one person out of the blue. It's several people and groups roughly same idea and roughly the same time... even if without connection to each other... spooky almost. But alas first gets the glory and spoils.

tldr; we don't need "titans'. we'll be fine.

eg. who invented the automobile. Although Benz, Citroen, and Ford became titans anyway.

**ghosthop** · 04-21-2022, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by Mustonen

Yeah. To be successful in some roles you have to be a bit of a sociopath. Do we need these people? Kinda….

Originally Posted by CarlMega

I have a theory that our society would realize the exact same useful and practical changes without these sociopaths, just a few years later. The push, the drive, is all driven by a need to be "first" and put a stake in the ground for their claim to fortunes. Thus money (and ego) is primarily driving the urgency. But change would happen just the same but a bit later, probably a bit less singular in the claims and ideally more widespread.

There are examples in history of basically a collective consciousness of realization. Generally, it's not one big idea from one person out of the blue. It's several people and groups roughly same idea and roughly the same time... even if without connection to each other... spooky almost. But alas first gets the glory and spoils.

tldr; we don't need "titans'. we'll be fine.

I watched this from afar over the winter.

The difference between being the first or not is a concern for ethics.

We recognize sociopaths because they are the first. That does not make them the best. You have to wonder how much is lost during the race to be first rather than the 'right' way.

**paulster2626** · 04-21-2022, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by ghosthop

We recognize sociopaths because they are the first. That does not make them the best. You have to wonder how much is lost during the race to be first rather than the 'right' way.

Same shit we see on powder days, amirite?

**neufox47** · 04-21-2022, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by SumJongGuy

Wow he needs a better accountant.. Is that just US or global?

I don’t know why he would owe taxes to any other country.

Please explain your tax avoidance strategy for getting billions of $ of income via exercised options.

So now that you are proven wrong, you deflect and make another ignorant blanket statement? Smaht.

A smarter response would have been, “oh, I didn’t realize that. I guess he paid a lot of taxes this year but that doesn’t mean he has always paid a reasonable amount or will pay this much in the future.“

**Ted Striker** · 04-21-2022, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by neufox47

I don’t know why he would owe taxes to any other country.

He holds three citizenships, so it is plausible. But I doubt it.

**MTT** · 04-21-2022, 02:48 PM

I think they are where they are because they came up with an idea that no corporate board was going to do

Microsoft. IBM was sure competing was only for companies

Pay pal. No one wanted to fuck with visa

Amazon. ??

**neufox47** · 04-21-2022, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by Ted Striker

He holds three citizenships, so it is plausible. But I doubt it.

I don’t think Canada or South Africa taxes citizens who live and work abroad as long as they are gone more than half the year. If they did I’m guessing Elon would have renounced citizenship.

**JimmyCarter** · 04-22-2022, 10:19 AM

https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/21/tech/...ing/index.html

His underground traffic jam building company is now worth almost $6 billion. Not that those VCs just assume they can eventually profit off any malinvestment because of gullible cult retail investors

**J. Barron DeJong** · 04-22-2022, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by JimmyCarter

https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/21/tech/...ing/index.html

His underground traffic jam building company is now worth almost $6 billion. Not that those VCs just assume they can eventually profit off any malinvestment because of gullible cult retail investors

Welp, guess I was wrong to use that as my example as something not turning into gold. Must be nice when your shittiest ideas are still worth billions.

**dunfree** · 04-22-2022, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by JimmyCarter

https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/21/tech/...ing/index.html

His underground traffic jam building company is now worth almost $6 billion. Not that those VCs just assume they can eventually profit off any malinvestment because of gullible cult retail investors

the underground autonomy play is worth billions, just look at the videos of people totally not being paid

**Ted Striker** · 04-22-2022, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by neufox47

I don’t think Canada or South Africa taxes citizens who live and work abroad as long as they are gone more than half the year. If they did I’m guessing Elon would have renounced citizenship.

Like I said, he's most likely not. However, you are mistaken about Canada.