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  1. #2151
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    Well, maybe that's the problem. Everyone living in places that are hard to get to, and require a ton of energy to get to.

    Then again, look at a map of China. They've figured out how to build high speed trains in the middle of no where. Big country.

    Let's do some livin'
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  2. #2152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post

    Then again, look at a map of China. They've figured out how to build high speed trains in the middle of no where. Big country.
    Is it for sale?

    Anyone involved with ltl or ftl shipping knows how f'd up the whole situation is and knows that rail would be more efficient and lighten the load on traffic gridlock that is only getting worse. But we're pulling up tracks instead of putting them down and there's a CVS and a Home Depot in the way of where the tracks need to be.

  3. #2153
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    Enviro-unfriendly: high consumption relative to income, major new products vs more net-efficient used products. Long commutes, etc.

    Enviro-friendly: low consumption relative to income, carpooling, small-displacement used vehicles & products where possible. Renewable offsets for grid rather than buying new solar panels. Public transit and/or short commutes to reduce aggregate time in transit.

    Thse prone to signaling of course ignore these kinds of pragmatic solutions in favor of loud, unethical bullhorns like TSLA.

  4. #2154
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw View Post
    For double the cost.
    100K. Model S is 130k for like performance I believe. P100D.
    "I don't pretend to have all the answers, and I think there's something to be said for that" -One For The Road

    Brain dead and made of money.

  5. #2155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bromontane View Post
    Enviro-unfriendly: high consumption relative to income, major new products vs more net-efficient used products. Long commutes, etc.

    Enviro-friendly: low consumption relative to income, carpooling, small-displacement used vehicles & products where possible. Renewable offsets for grid rather than buying new solar panels. Public transit and/or short commutes to reduce aggregate time in transit.

    Thse prone to signaling of course ignore these kinds of pragmatic solutions in favor of loud, unethical bullhorns like TSLA.
    Older vehicles typically have worse smog ratings than newer vehicles even in the case of an older vehicle achieving better fuel economy.

    The broad thrust of your post is essentially correct but asking people to do less-with-less is a harder sell than asking people to do more-with-less.

    EVs open the door to doing more-with-less when it comes to localized pollution. Transportation makes up more than half of the carbon monoxide and nitrogen oxides emitted into the air. You live in Salt Lake City, right? In the summer Salt Lake experiences high ozone levels along with high levels of PM2.5 from fossil fuels and in the winter horrendous weeks long pollution trapping inversions.

    Long term exposure to ground level ozone and particulate matter is akin to continuously smoking a pack of cigarettes a day over the course of a lifetime. The result is lung damage and increased risk of emphysema. Air pollution is also associated with, among other things, an increased risk of dementia, heart disease, and DNA damage.

  6. #2156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bromontane View Post
    Enviro-unfriendly: high consumption relative to income, major new products vs more net-efficient used products. Long commutes, etc.

    Enviro-friendly: low consumption relative to income, carpooling, small-displacement used vehicles & products where possible. Renewable offsets for grid rather than buying new solar panels. Public transit and/or short commutes to reduce aggregate time in transit.

    Thse prone to signaling of course ignore these kinds of pragmatic solutions in favor of loud, unethical bullhorns like TSLA.
    Sounds good on paper. Too bad that's not the way most people tend to do things here in the U.S.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless View Post
    100K. Model S is 130k for like performance I believe. P100D.
    Model S Performance is $99,990.

    https://www.tesla.com/models/design#battery

  7. #2157
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    So, buying expensive cars as totemic consumer objects is good if they've a different profile for marginal pollution per mile driven?

    Not fucking the earth up quite as fast != saving the planet.

  8. #2158
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    Read an article in the magazine Wired, while at the doctor, about EM. Quite the d-bag, but zippy gets some shit done. I'd like to shake his hand, then kick him in the nuts.

  9. #2159
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    So much for Tesla's renewed solar power efforts getting off to a good start. Walmart has sued Tesla after rooftop solar panels on seven of the retailer's stores caught fire, allegedly due to poor safety practices. Tesla supposedly didn't ground its electrical and solar systems properly, according to Walmart, and regularly sent inspectors who "lacked basic solar training and knowledge." Walmart also asserted that Tesla's panels were rife with visible defects.
    ......
    194 Praxis Carbon Ullrs for sale, $290: https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...54#post5606654

  10. #2160
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiballs View Post
    Read an article in the magazine Wired, while at the doctor, about EM. Quite the d-bag, but zippy gets some shit done. I'd like to shake his hand, then kick him in the nuts.
    Should probably try reading some books. You'd probably still want to kick him in the nuts along with Jobs if he was still alive.

    Quote Originally Posted by frorider View Post
    ......
    Where the hell was the Electrical Inspector? On-site installers in any trade can be questionable, hence outside inspections by localities.

  11. #2161
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    Why? Why do people defend this slip-shod environmental fraud? 7 fires, 200+ arrays depowered and in the process of removal/recycling is a huge environmental failure. But like with his tent built shitboxes Musk culturally DNGAF.

  12. #2162
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    So, buying expensive cars as totemic consumer objects is good if they've a different profile for marginal pollution per mile driven?

    Not fucking the earth up quite as fast != saving the planet.
    So you'd prefer rich people keep driving their gas guzzling behemoth SUVs? Sure, you can rip on the silliness of the status symbol of it all, but at the end of the day I'd rather see a bunch of rich douchebags driving EVs than Escalades, Range Rovers, Hummers, and Merc G classes.

    Are EV's environmentally consequence free? OF COURSE NOT, but over the lifetime of the vehicle, it's certainly a net win.

  13. #2163
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    Why what? Construction issues happen every day due to incompetent installers. If the shit isn't grounded properly there is going to be an issue. And proper grounding is relatively complex if you don't know what you're doing. You can blame Musk sure, he's the CEO or whatever the hell his title is, but he's so removed from actual installation that blaming him specifically for poor grounding?...sure if you want.

    You and Bro are so caught up in the hate that you cannot look at anything rationally when it comes to a Musk company. Which is fine, just sayin'.

  14. #2164
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustinFromSA View Post
    So you'd prefer rich people keep driving their gas guzzling behemoth SUVs? Sure, you can rip on the silliness of the status symbol of it all, but at the end of the day I'd rather see a bunch of rich douchebags driving EVs than Escalades, Range Rovers, Hummers, and Merc G classes.

    Are EV's environmentally consequence free? OF COURSE NOT, but over the lifetime of the vehicle, it's certainly a net win.
    No, what you do is very simple but politically impossible. Federal gas tax of two dollars, phased in over a period of time, that will pay for transportation infrastructure, and will also kill gas guzzlers with market forces.

    Works in Europe.

    Let's do some livin'
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  15. #2165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamburello Rouge View Post
    Model S Performance is $99,990.

    https://www.tesla.com/models/design#battery
    So they cost the same. Id rather have the Taycan.

    Every Tesla Ive had, has always had build quality issues.
    "I don't pretend to have all the answers, and I think there's something to be said for that" -One For The Road

    Brain dead and made of money.

  16. #2166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    No, what you do is very simple but politically impossible. Federal gas tax of two dollars, phased in over a period of time, that will pay for transportation infrastructure, and will also kill gas guzzlers with market forces.

    Works in Europe.
    So you screw over the lower and middle classes who can't afford new cars but also don't have a good mass transportation infrastructure to rely on? Or the worker bees who depend on their trusty old, gas guzzling pickup trucks to mow your lawns and trim your trees. Nice. Talk about unintended consequences!

  17. #2167
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    Life isn't perfect. Sorry. But at least the roads and bridges and tunnels will work and the air will be cleaner.

    Besides, the banks will just make it even easier to buy a car. Like anybody is paying cash.

    Let's do some livin'
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  18. #2168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    No, what you do is very simple but politically impossible. Federal gas tax of two dollars, phased in over a period of time, that will pay for transportation infrastructure, and will also kill gas guzzlers with market forces.

    Works in Europe.
    Screw the gas tax on regular people. Put it on the Exxon's of the world and let's raise the fuel economy standards that Trumptard put the kibosh on because he's a fucking moron.

  19. #2169
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw View Post
    You and Bro are so caught up in the hate that you cannot look at anything rationally when it comes to a Musk company. Which is fine, just sayin'.
    Not really. You're too lazy to even figure out what positions are so you invent them and sit behind this edifice of fictitious interpolation.

    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw View Post
    Screw the gas tax on regular people. Put it on the Exxon's of the world and let's raise the fuel economy standards that Trumptard put the kibosh on because he's a fucking moron.
    That cost goes directly to the people, fyi. Maybe learn about econ? Or just continue to be lazy and swim in the current of populism. Your choice.

  20. #2170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bromontane View Post
    That cost goes directly to the people, fyi. Maybe learn about econ? Or just continue to be lazy and swim in the current of populism. Your choice.
    Yup! Big corporations don't ever really pay taxes. The people do. Any time you want to get "the man" with fees and higher taxes, all they ever do is just tack on fees or bake in the prices for the end consumer. Take a good close look at your cable, telephone, or even utility bills. Look at the ACTUAL break down in fuel costs. Yeah, Exxon ain't exactly eating those costs. YOU are.

  21. #2171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Life isn't perfect. Sorry. But at least the roads and bridges and tunnels will work and the air will be cleaner.
    Sounds peachy for Europe where population density's high and it's so freaking tiny. Different story here. It's like you've never been to the flyover states or something. Good mass transit just ain't happening for a large chunk of America and people NEED personal transportation that isn't going to bankrupt them in vehicle or operating costs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Besides, the banks will just make it even easier to buy a car. Like anybody is paying cash.
    Sure, so keep the poor people poor by continuing to enslave them into debt even further. Winning proposition.

  22. #2172
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw View Post
    You and Bro are so caught up in the hate that you cannot look at anything rationally when it comes to a Musk company. Which is fine, just sayin'.
    I blame the CEO of a company with systemic quality, honesty, and ethics issues. Especially when he has a demonstrable record of fraud.

    Feel free to read the lawsuit before you stan for Elon, or just bullshit for him and undermine the cause you claim to support. "total lifecycle costs" are predicated on the product having a reasonable lifetime. that's production, installation, service. I see little evidence Elon gives a shit about any of that - and I see a fanboi culture that angrily insists he shouldn't have too. He cares so much about pollution his factory in Freemont spewed paint fumes for years.

  23. #2173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bromontane View Post
    Not really. You're too lazy to even figure out what positions are so you invent them and sit behind this edifice of fictitious interpolation.



    That cost goes directly to the people, fyi. Maybe learn about econ? Or just continue to be lazy and swim in the current of populism. Your choice.
    Haha! You crack me up. You're so smart bro. What's an econ genius like yourself doing posting on a ski forum? Shouldn't someone as brilliant as you be riding snow in the southern hemisphere or lounging on a tropical island with all your money?

  24. #2174
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustinFromSA View Post
    Sounds peachy for Europe where population density's high and it's so freaking tiny. Different story here. It's like you've never been to the flyover states or something. Good mass transit just ain't happening for a large chunk of America and people NEED personal transportation that isn't going to bankrupt them in vehicle or operating costs.


    Sure, so keep the poor people poor by continuing to enslave them into debt even further. Winning proposition.
    Well, again, maybe people are living in places in this country that they shouldn't, or, if they so desire, they should pay a premium for that. There's a reason the big Eastern cities are still viable, and will stay viable well into this century. Energy efficient, and it actually rains there. I mean, Vegas, what the fuck?

    And, if poor (and middle class people) didn't have easy to obtain credit, they wouldn't have shit.

    Let's do some livin'
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  25. #2175
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw View Post
    Haha! You crack me up. You're so smart bro. What's an econ genius like yourself doing posting on a ski forum? Shouldn't someone as brilliant as you be riding snow in the southern hemisphere or lounging on a tropical island with all your money?
    It's vain to suggest someone you perceive as having superior intellect to be a genius. What if you're just an idiot?

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