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  1. #2126
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    This guy thinks Tesla is the biggest fraud operating today, and he should know.

    https://www.worth.com/why-the-cfo-of...the-government

    Let's do some livin'
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  2. #2127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bromontane View Post

    When it comes to enterprise planning, unit economics > liberal catnip.
    Cute.

    Even your hero's the Koch brothers look way beyond quarterly returns.

  3. #2128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    This guy thinks Tesla is the biggest fraud operating today, and he should know.

    https://www.worth.com/why-the-cfo-of...the-government
    Interesting to hear him mention Overstock being busted for fraud, I don't know much about them except they are a Utah company that friends work for....the CEO released a fucking crazy presser last week though, and for awhile was coming out as a crypto company. Some weird, weird shit going on there:

    Overstock.com CEO Comments on Deep State, Withholds Further Comment
    SALT LAKE CITY, Aug. 12, 2019 CEO Patrick M. Byrne has released the following statement:

    “Sara Carter has published two articles relating the following claims of mine:

    1) Starting in 2015 I (operating under the belief that I was helping legitimate law enforcement efforts) assisted in what are now known as the ‘Clinton Investigation’ and the ‘Russian Investigation’ (in fact, I am the notorious ‘missing Chapter 1’ of the Russian investigation). It was the third time in my life I helped the Men in Black: the first was when my friend Brian Williamswas murdered, and the second was when I helped the M.I.B. shake up Wall Street a decade ago. Unfortunately, this third time turned out to be less about law enforcement and more about political espionage conducted against Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump (and to a lesser degree, Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz).

    2)In July 2018 I put the pieces together. I immediately (last July) came forward to a Congressman and a senior military officer, to the Department of Justice this April, and (upon my Omaha Rabbi reminding me of my duty as a citizen late this June) to a small set of journalists this summer. Ms. Carter was among them. Her two stories are accurate.
    Having confirmed Ms. Carter’s two articles, I have fulfilled those citizenship obligations of which my Rabbi reminded me. I will speak no more on the subject. Instead, having lived in places lacking Rule of Law and having witnessed the consequences of its absence, I plan on sitting back and watching the United States Department of Justicere-establish Rule of Law in our country.”

  4. #2129
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    Crazeee Patrick!

    Let's do some livin'
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  5. #2130
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    if you don't believe in roof based money printers and the quality of tent built shitboxes you are a Koch worshiper

  6. #2131
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    You learn something new every day!

  7. #2132
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    if you don't believe in roof based money printers and the quality of tent built shitboxes you are a Koch worshiper
    If you do believe, does that make you a Koch-knocker?

  8. #2133
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    To be precise, I think the scientific term is Koch-gobbler.

  9. #2134
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    Taycan bout to spank the Model S.

  10. #2135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless View Post
    Taycan bout to spank the Model S.
    For double the cost.

  11. #2136
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    www.apriliaforum.com

    "If the road You followed brought you to this,of what use was the road"?

    "I have no idea what I am talking about but would be happy to share my biased opinions as fact on the matter. "
    Ottime

  12. #2137
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    You can hate on Tesla all you want, but it still proves to be an immensely popular make no matter the vehicle issues, insane CEO, or otherwise. After experiencing a handful of all three current models, I'm having a tough time wrapping my head around spending that much money on any OTHER type of car since once you sit in a Tesla, most other cars seem almost... antiquated. Blows my mind that the Model S is now over SEVEN years old, still looks great, and is STILL ahead of most of the competition when it comes to tech and electric range.

    Where's the proof of it's continued popularity? Just look up used ones on Autotrader. It's tough to find all but the earliest, high mileage examples for sale under 30 G's. Used Model 3's seem to go for more money than new. Plus they're EVERYWHERE. Been to CA a handful of times this year for work, where its overwhelming prevalence seems like it makes sense, but even in Texas they're becoming as common as cheap Chevy sedans. Every time I see a Model 3, I think, yeah, I want that to be my next new car. I think the Chevy Volt will be my stepping stone until I can afford a new 3 or a used S, but the lust factor is still high. That's saying something because so many people feel that way IN SPITE of all the known issues with the crazy company.

    And no matter your thoughts on TSLA corp, or even the product, we all have to admit that it's pretty rad that they did what they set out to do at the beginning; Musk's goal all along was to make EV's not just accepted in modern society, but something to be DESIRED. He proved that EV's don't have to be lamer, more boring, slower versions of their ICE counterparts like everything that came before them. No matter what, you have to respect that one thing if nothing else. EV's are COOL now. That was a tall order only a decade ago.

  13. #2138
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    that's exactly what's so fucking toxic about Musk's "vision". He's made people pretend buying a $130k disposable car is helping "save the planet" and, even worse, tied visions of the future to himself and his firms or what i'll call the bullshit factory keiretsu. Instead of investing in public transportation the conversation is distracted by hyperloop bullshitting. Instead of talking about the future of roads we get bullshit about "1 million robotaxis in 2020". People seriously talk about "colonizing mars".

  14. #2139
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    Catnip for dipshits

  15. #2140
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustinFromSA View Post
    And no matter your thoughts on TSLA corp, or even the product, we all have to admit that it's pretty rad that they did what they set out to do at the beginning; Musk's goal all along was to make EV's not just accepted in modern society, but something to be DESIRED. He proved that EV's don't have to be lamer, more boring, slower versions of their ICE counterparts like everything that came before them. No matter what, you have to respect that one thing if nothing else. EV's are COOL now. That was a tall order only a decade ago.
    Creating a viable market for EVs is a remarkable accomplishment.

    The weird thing about the Tesla hate here on this forum is how some of Tesla's most vocal detractors also live in the U.S.'s most polluted cities. It would be one thing if their anger was primarily focused on Musk's poor execution but instead their anger comes across as hate for all EVs.

  16. #2141
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    that's exactly what's so fucking toxic about Musk's "vision". He's made people pretend buying a $130k disposable car is helping "save the planet" and, even worse, tied visions of the future to himself and his firms or what i'll call the bullshit factory keiretsu. Instead of investing in public transportation the conversation is distracted by hyperloop bullshitting. Instead of talking about the future of roads we get bullshit about "1 million robotaxis in 2020". People seriously talk about "colonizing mars".
    Well, I do agree with some of your thoughts, but they're not 130k cars today.

    Is battery the best option vs fuel right now? It appears so. Yeah, it's all carbon-producing, but just less. The batteries at end of life are still a big issue. Frankly, batteries in everything are an issue. We don't need batteries in so much shit that can be hard-wired. It's asinine.

    Public transportation. Absolutely. But to put that on Musk is reaching. Where is everybody else on that one? How 'bout the government? Green New Deal that is bastardized by every publican out there. We screwed the pooch on the rail system which is the 20/20 rule now.

    At least he's doing something. Again, he's whacked and bordering unethical in some instances, but he is moving the dial.

  17. #2142
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    narrative of environmental disruption by "startup" "genius" >> actual environmental disruption of transportation
    i think someone needs to take on a "ski mars" tee project a la 'ski iraq'...which i own but cannot presently find...
    My Company: Made in Colorado SKi Clothing- check it out

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  18. #2143
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    Quote Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy View Post
    If you do believe, does that make you a Koch-knocker?
    it makes you a koch sucker

  19. #2144
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    that's exactly what's so fucking toxic about Musk's "vision". He's made people pretend buying a $130k disposable car is helping "save the planet" and, even worse, tied visions of the future to himself and his firms or what i'll call the bullshit factory keiretsu. Instead of investing in public transportation the conversation is distracted by hyperloop bullshitting. Instead of talking about the future of roads we get bullshit about "1 million robotaxis in 2020". People seriously talk about "colonizing mars".

    Yup. It really is all carny barking to the upper middle class. Meanwhile, our entire transportation infrastructure is crumbling, and, he's "inventing" something that needs it's own dedicated infrastructure, walled and fenced off, to work, because no way robo cars will ever function in a hybrid world. They have something better over in Europe, Japan, and China. High speed trains. Popular, cost effective with subsidies, and they work. Meanwhile, we expand out into exurbia with no end in sight with toy cars.

    Let's do some livin'
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  20. #2145
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    being a euro local it has come to your notice that the distances are greater here in the states and population density is lower and these facts contribute to the reason rail sucks here

  21. #2146
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    We can't even keep low speed trains on the tracks here in the US.
    "timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang

  22. #2147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Yup. It really is all carny barking to the upper middle class. Meanwhile, our entire transportation infrastructure is crumbling, and, he's "inventing" something that needs it's own dedicated infrastructure, walled and fenced off, to work, because no way robo cars will ever function in a hybrid world. They have something better over in Europe, Japan, and China. High speed trains. Popular, cost effective with subsidies, and they work. Meanwhile, we expand out into exurbia with no end in sight with toy cars.
    Quote Originally Posted by DBdude View Post
    being a euro local it has come to your notice that the distances are greater here in the states and population density is lower and these facts contribute to the reason rail sucks here
    ^ ding ding ding

    Real big part of the issue here is the 'last mile' of transportation. Rail infrastructure requires a massive commitment of resources to make it work, and in most rural areas it simply won't work. We've spent the last 100 years prioritizing road infrastructure over rail for that reason.

    Our current rail system is most optimal for moving freight, and trying to shoehorn in high-speed development may not be the best idea.

    If we were to focus passenger rail transport on a more local/regional level, that would be a better investment. But across the massive landmass that is North America, the automobile still makes the most sense.

  23. #2148
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    Well, maybe that's the problem. Everyone living in places that are hard to get to, and require a ton of energy to get to.

    Then again, look at a map of China. They've figured out how to build high speed trains in the middle of no where. Big country.

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  24. #2149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post

    Then again, look at a map of China. They've figured out how to build high speed trains in the middle of no where. Big country.
    Is it for sale?

    Anyone involved with ltl or ftl shipping knows how f'd up the whole situation is and knows that rail would be more efficient and lighten the load on traffic gridlock that is only getting worse. But we're pulling up tracks instead of putting them down and there's a CVS and a Home Depot in the way of where the tracks need to be.

  25. #2150
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    Enviro-unfriendly: high consumption relative to income, major new products vs more net-efficient used products. Long commutes, etc.

    Enviro-friendly: low consumption relative to income, carpooling, small-displacement used vehicles & products where possible. Renewable offsets for grid rather than buying new solar panels. Public transit and/or short commutes to reduce aggregate time in transit.

    Thse prone to signaling of course ignore these kinds of pragmatic solutions in favor of loud, unethical bullhorns like TSLA.

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