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  1. #4351
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    He’s a free speech absolutist.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/..._1xci3BDf_V1_Q

    Safe to assume China is throwing their weight around too.

  2. #4352
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    Or money....

  3. #4353
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    Nov 2008
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    Trump apparently doesn't want to be friends with Elon, introduces new topic to his rally speech:

    "The cars go for like two hours. What are you going to do? Everyone's going to be sitting on the highway. We're all going to be looking for a little plug-in. Does anybody have a plug-in? My car just stopped. I've been driving for an hour and 51 minutes. It's ridiculous."


    Bwahahaha. Kicked in the balls by his new friends. Proving once again that pivoting to the right was the dumbest, most tone deaf, On The Spectrum thing Elon has ever done. Tesla market share getting destroyed in Europe.

  4. #4354
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    I will be happy to see Tesla plummet and crash and burn as a direct result of his big fucking stupid mouth.

  5. #4355
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    Up like 40% over the past month tho ...

  6. #4356
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    Elon Musk: Smartest Guy in The World or Complete Clown?

    Quote Originally Posted by heckacali View Post
    Up like 40% over the past month tho ...
    A stock down 60% has to be up 150% to break even.
    Last edited by 4matic; 01-30-2023 at 06:09 PM.

  7. #4357
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    Jan 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    story checks out
    Cool vid, but even though the recent buyer of a used Tesla was faced with a $24K battery replacement bill, obviously that never came out of his pocket, and it's never mentioned how much (or how little) he paid for the car. Tesla drive batteries typically hold up for about 250K miles. Bummer if you buy one near its end of life hoping to duck-tape it into a year or so of semi-reliable clunker miles, which is something you can certainly do with a lot of other cars. But really, 250K is decent longevity for any car, and overall cost-of-ownership-per-mile pencils out reasonably even if you junk it well before that.

    (And FY for making me say something that comes across as a defense of douchebag Elon Musk.)

  8. #4358
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    Also, if you replace a battery at 250k miles, don’t you get another 200-250k miles out of that car relatively maintenance free?


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  9. #4359
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    Quote Originally Posted by neufox47 View Post
    Also, if you replace a battery at 250k miles, don’t you get another 200-250k miles out of that car relatively maintenance free?


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Heh. All the little doodads in vehicles outside of the drivetrain notwithstanding, show me one consumer grade piece of electronic hardware that could support the evolution of software past 10yrs, let alone last 20. How easy will it be to upgrade the computer in that Tesla to handle the software updates. Shit get less durable with tech advancement it seems, not more. I see no change in that trend with electric vehicles.

  10. #4360
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    Oct 2018
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    527
    Buddy has had a model S for about 7 years now, all kinds of goofy things happening with the electronics. He only keeps it because he is grandfathered in for free charging.

  11. #4361
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    I don’t follow this crazy dude but I wanted to look up something he supposedly said on Twitter and it appears he has locked his tweets.
    What an odd duck.

  12. #4362
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCMtnHound View Post
    Heh. All the little doodads in vehicles outside of the drivetrain notwithstanding, show me one consumer grade piece of electronic hardware that could support the evolution of software past 10yrs, let alone last 20. How easy will it be to upgrade the computer in that Tesla to handle the software updates. Shit get less durable with tech advancement it seems, not more. I see no change in that trend with electric vehicles.
    Yep, because car software in ICE vehicles has rendered 2000's era cars inoperable.

    Seriously.

    In Tesla's case they cheap out and don't use automotive grade stuff, so no shit they're going to fall apart - they aren't built for the heat cycling and vibration. - https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/...-grade-matters

  13. #4363
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    Quote Originally Posted by schuss View Post
    Yep, because car software in ICE vehicles has rendered 2000's era cars inoperable.

    Seriously.

    In Tesla's case they cheap out and don't use automotive grade stuff, so no shit they're going to fall apart - they aren't built for the heat cycling and vibration. - https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/...-grade-matters
    My 03 taco has a solid state computer. No updates needed. Same with my 2012 Hyundai Elantra. On the other hand, my 2015 Silverado has received at least one update to the software since we purchased it, but I don’t know how sensitive the system is to corruption or other I/O concerns for basic operation.

    I don’t have a telsa, and haven’t chatted with the guy locally that does lately. But it would appear based on posts here that the software needs for even basic operation are far more important in those vehicles. With your link showing the durability of the hardware is lacking, just how prone are these things to leaving you stranded on the road? Might no be in issue in a well-populated area in the US, but lots of places here that if you break down, no cell service, traffic is limited especially at night, and you might be stranded for several hours. I can wrench on an ICE and limp it for 20km, but I’m no software engineer able to get a computer back in operation if it decides to shit the bed in the middle of nowhere.

    Maybe this isn’t an issue and I am tilting at windmills, but greater reliance on a complex hardware-software system doesn’t fill me with optimism.

  14. #4364
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCMtnHound View Post
    My 03 taco has a solid state computer. No updates needed. Same with my 2012 Hyundai Elantra. On the other hand, my 2015 Silverado has received at least one update to the software since we purchased it, but I don’t know how sensitive the system is to corruption or other I/O concerns for basic operation.

    I don’t have a telsa, and haven’t chatted with the guy locally that does lately. But it would appear based on posts here that the software needs for even basic operation are far more important in those vehicles. With your link showing the durability of the hardware is lacking, just how prone are these things to leaving you stranded on the road? Might no be in issue in a well-populated area in the US, but lots of places here that if you break down, no cell service, traffic is limited especially at night, and you might be stranded for several hours. I can wrench on an ICE and limp it for 20km, but I’m no software engineer able to get a computer back in operation if it decides to shit the bed in the middle of nowhere.

    Maybe this isn’t an issue and I am tilting at windmills, but greater reliance on a complex hardware-software system doesn’t fill me with optimism.
    I'm not a fanboi of Tesla.. but out of the dozens of cars I see broken down, not many are Teslas. We have a high concentration of them here.

    That said, you're right, the days of sticking a pencil in a carburetor to fix your pickamatruck are long gone.
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  15. #4365
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    In terms of reliance on complex software, that ship probably sailed in 2010. What's changed about these days is over the air updates (ie not at the dealer) are possible given wifi/cell connections. Anything possible of that is a good idea to update as hacks will continue to develop and need to be stamped out.
    I'll also say that plenty of cars have a "limp" mode for exactly what you describe that keeps them functioning.

  16. #4366
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  17. #4367
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    If I had a nickel for every time my steering wheel fell off I’d have change for a nickel

  18. #4368
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    Quote Originally Posted by neufox47 View Post
    Also, if you replace a battery at 250k miles, don’t you get another 200-250k miles out of that car relatively maintenance free?


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Doesn't seem like it.

    According to RepairPal, the average Tesla maintenance cost is $832 per year. That compares to an average of $652 per year for all car models sold in the United States. Depending on which services your Tesla needs, you may end up spending much more than the average car owner on yearly maintenance needs.

    ....

    Though not much information exists yet about the overall reliability of Tesla models, early results aren’t encouraging. In the J.D. Power 2021 U.S. Vehicle Dependability StudySM, Tesla ranked 30th of 33 car brands for overall reliability. That’s better than only Jaguar, Alfa Romeo, and Land Rover among all automakers across the country.

    https://jalopnik.com/advisor/tesla-m...l%20automakers.
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  19. #4369
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    To be fair, excluding the cost of gasoline is kind of an unfair comparison. That sort of adds up. Apples to oranges unless comparing Tesla to other EV's.
    I ski 135 degree chutes switch to the road.

  20. #4370
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    To be fair, excluding the cost of gasoline is kind of an unfair comparison. That sort of adds up. Apples to oranges unless comparing Tesla to other EV's.
    You mean in the maintenance costs? I don't think fuel (petro or electric) is normally included in that. But I agree, total out of pocket costs would be something like:

    Ownership / Maintenance costs
    Insurance / Licensing
    Fueling / Energy
    And maybe a depreciation for avg. ownership length

  21. #4371
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    for sure, but there’s a myth about how EV’s are going to put mechanics out of work and it doesn’t seem to be in any way accurate.
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  22. #4372
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    To be fair, excluding the cost of gasoline is kind of an unfair comparison. That sort of adds up. Apples to oranges unless comparing Tesla to other EV's.




    Excluding the cost of gas vs electric might be fair if there was some way to figure out exactly what people spend to charge. But this runs the gamut of free from my solar panels to chargers operating like an ATM in a casino with a $6 fee for withdrawal.
    But reading what many EV bro brau's say there is always the statement that maintenance is cheaper.
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  23. #4373
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    Quote Originally Posted by ex-powderbroker View Post
    for sure, but there’s a myth about how EV’s are going to put mechanics out of work and it doesn’t seem to be in any way accurate.
    Probable not, but they’ll start calling themselves Engineers, and doubling their shop rates accordingly.

    Local shop mechanic scored very high in grade school maths, was a wizard in the shop (kind of guy who could built an engine from a blank of steel in his early teens), and everyone thought he’d go to uni and become some form of engineer. But all he wanted to do was stay in a small town and wrench on vehicles. Best mechanic I’ve ever had. He’s not impressed by EV’s so much, but figures ICE’s will be around long enough for his career.

  24. #4374
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    If you are splitting hairs over ownership costs, I was pleasantly surprised to not need a brake job as often. But yeah, I'll say you can count on plenty of work servicing and maintaining machines in the auto industry for a long time.

  25. #4375
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