Rocky Mountain Suicide Belt

[Norseman]

Bumping this after coming across the article again.

Take care of yourselves, friends in the mountains.

[Casey E]

I am intrigued by the relationship between altitude and psychiatric conditions, serotonin and dopamine. Seems the higher you live the less serotonin and more dopamine you get. These effects are less for those who are born at altitude, than for the migrants from the coast. And ADHD (how many ski bums suffer from this?) drops as you get higher. Lots of angles on this mountain town living thing.

http://upr.org/post/paradoxical-link...lth-and-oxygen

https://www.google.cl/amp/www.desere...h-altitude.amp

I spent a fair amount of time high in the mountains in my youth, including a couple of ski seasons at 8,000ft. I considered “living the dream”, but finally settled in a 7 million city at 2,000ft. Happily married, raised kids, earned some good bucks, got my mountain fixes right out of my back yard, and go skiing only an hour away. Found my balance I guess.

Would be interesting to know if the suicide belt extends into Canada, or how the Andes fare in this respect.

[Viva]

Why don't you travel to Nepal and take a survey?

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[XXX-er]

I am intrigued by the relationship between altitude and psychiatric conditions, serotonin and dopamine. Seems the higher you live the less serotonin and more dopamine you get. These effects are less for those who are born at altitude, than for the migrants from the coast. And ADHD (how many ski bums suffer from this?) drops as you get higher. Lots of angles on this mountain town living thing.

Would be interesting to know if the suicide belt extends into Canada,

the mountains are not as high here, not that many people, not that many mountain towns, way less and guns, free medical ... maybe life is a little less grim ...less desperate

[glademaster]

I think the dichotomy between haves and have-nots in western mountain towns is probably more severe than in Canadian ski towns. How many $15,000,000+ homes are on the market in Rossland or Revelstoke?

I don't know if there is a large-scale solution, but I know that I will be relocating within the next year or two to get away from an area that I find to be truly soul crushing. Good riddance.

[muted]

What I've seen: Many people move to the mountains young, looking to escape their problems. Big problems that are too complicated to comprehend when you are young. Pulling up roots is easy at 18, and they have nothing to lose. They get out west and spend all the days in the mountains, finally happy, thanks to dopamine. They spend a few too many nights drinking having a blast with like-minded friends, thanks to dopamine. They begin to drink too much, but they think they are living the dream. They identify as a skier or snowboarder, and a decent one at that. But they never confronted their real problems and dopamine does not equal true, long-lasting happiness. Their life is outside and 'free', but not much more. It's all they have and while in the moment, it's a beautiful life. Exploring new zones, breathing fresh air, being in shape, challenging oneself. What's not to be envious of? It's the dream they had back east or the midwest, and they are living it.

Then they get older and older, their friends moved on, and they slowly get injured. Maybe it's a back injury from a flat landing that never gets better. Maybe they were dehydrated from drinking the night before, and they blow out their knee as their ACL is like a toothpick early in the mornings after drinking/skiing/drinking/skiing for months on end. Alcohol is taking a toll on their bodies much much much more than when they were in their twenties. but they have a bit of a habit now. The knee gives them issues indefinitely, they were never skier they were before. They have relied on being a great skier more than simply being outside, and if they are not a great skier, who are they then? They are sick of their shitty job, sick of girlfriends that don't last, friends who turn out not to be the greatest friends, and now their bodies can't do what they want them too. And all the problems they escaped from by moving out west to just ski coming flooding back. And since they already picked up a drinking habit from moving to a ski town, they lean on that crutch just a bit more to forget.

True happiness is a stupid cliche after all, because yes it's found within, not on a mountain top, and for many people it's really hard to find anywhere at all.

[nutmegchoi]

What I've seen: Many people move to the mountains young, looking to escape their problems. Big problems that are too complicated to comprehend when you are young. Pulling up roots is easy at 18, and they have nothing to lose. They get out west and spend all the days in the mountains, finally happy, thanks to dopamine. They spend a few too many nights drinking having a blast with like-minded friends, thanks to dopamine. They begin to drink too much, but they think they are living the dream. They identify as a skier or snowboarder, and a decent one at that. But they never confronted their real problems and dopamine does not equal true, long-lasting happiness. Their life is outside and 'free', but not much more. It's all they have and while in the moment, it's a beautiful life. Exploring new zones, breathing fresh air, being in shape, challenging oneself. What's not to be envious of? It's the dream they had back east or the midwest, and they are living it.

Then they get older and older, their friends moved on, and they slowly get injured. Maybe it's a back injury from a flat landing that never gets better. Maybe they were dehydrated from drinking the night before, and they blow out their knee as their ACL is like a toothpick early in the mornings after drinking/skiing/drinking/skiing for months on end. Alcohol is taking a toll on their bodies much much much more than when they were in their twenties. but they have a bit of a habit now. The knee gives them issues indefinitely, they were never skier they were before. They have relied on being a great skier more than simply being outside, and if they are not a great skier, who are they then? They are sick of their shitty job, sick of girlfriends that don't last, friends who turn out not to be the greatest friends, and now their bodies can't do what they want them too. And all the problems they escaped from by moving out west to just ski coming flooding back. And since they already picked up a drinking habit from moving to a ski town, they lean on that crutch just a bit more to forget.

True happiness is a stupid cliche after all, because yes it's found within, not on a mountain top, and for many people it's really hard to find anywhere at all.

Reading this got me depressed.

[Micol]

i've categorized mtn living into two groups (maybe oversimplified):

1. guests
2. guest services

1. guests can be filthy rich, retired, or they can be tourists (not necessarily rich) that might drop $2,500-20,000 for a week of fun
or a quick trip up the hill from big city, either way, still guests...

2. everybody else is guest services, most g.s.'ers wants to live like guests

fwiw: I'm guest services....
and i quit drinking

[Viva]

Reading this got me depressed.

Don't be; you know better.

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[iceman]

To me, you see these folks, these lost souls, lots of places, not just the mountains. The unifying factor is they fled their problems, they got to the end of the road ahead of their problems but the problems caught up. The end of the road...Montauk, Cape Hatteras, Key West, Alaska, I'm sure there's plenty of places on the west coast...people have this idea that if "I can get there then everything will be all right".

But moving to a place doesn't fix you, you gotta fix you yourself unfortunately. Moving to a place can give you some time where you have a chance to start over, but you can't waste that chance or it will end up being worse than it was before you moved. And then you don't have another idea, or another place to go.

[LHutz Esq]

the mountains are not as high here, not that many people, not that many mountain towns, way less and guns, free medical ... maybe life is a little less grim ...less desperate

We actually have the highest suicide rate in the Prov.

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/pu...al/suicide.pdf

Although - not sure how that relates to altitude as our health area runs from sea level to the mountains.

The level of suicides among our First Nations is also a national disgrace.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/suicide...bers-1.2854899

[Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo]

To me, you see these folks, these lost souls, lots of places, not just the mountains. The unifying factor is they fled their problems, they got to the end of the road ahead of their problems but the problems caught up. The end of the road...Montauk, Cape Hatteras, Key West, Alaska, I'm sure there's plenty of places on the west coast...people have this idea that if "I can get there then everything will be all right".

But moving to a place doesn't fix you, you gotta fix you yourself unfortunately. Moving to a place can give you some time where you have a chance to start over, but you can't waste that chance or it will end up being worse than it was before you moved. And then you don't have another idea, or another place to go.

I've lived in Aspen 12 years now and could write a few pages on these issues but Iceman sums it up better than I probably could. My wife and I have met and spent time with all the different kinds of people in this town, from ultra-rich residents and second homeowners during my wife's days at Merrill Lynch to lifties bumping chairs for a few 100 day seasons and then they move on, to our current friends who are normal, boring middle/upper-middle class white-collar people raising families like people anywhere else. And my experience tells me that people are people and they bring their problems and issues with them wherever they go, rich or poor. Yeah these towns may attract more of a certain type of person and the income gaps certainly exacerbate some issues but if you lack perspective in life and are unable to find a happiness that begins within yourself, you're probably going to be unhappy and dissatisfied anywhere.

Your life is the sum total of all the choices you make in it, and all those choices involve trade-offs. The trick is to find the trade-offs that work for you.

[AK47bp]

What I've seen: Many people move to the mountains young, looking to escape their problems. Big problems that are too complicated to comprehend when you are young. Pulling up roots is easy at 18, and they have nothing to lose. They get out west and spend all the days in the mountains, finally happy, thanks to dopamine. They spend a few too many nights drinking having a blast with like-minded friends, thanks to dopamine. They begin to drink too much, but they think they are living the dream. They identify as a skier or snowboarder, and a decent one at that. But they never confronted their real problems and dopamine does not equal true, long-lasting happiness. Their life is outside and 'free', but not much more. It's all they have and while in the moment, it's a beautiful life. Exploring new zones, breathing fresh air, being in shape, challenging oneself. What's not to be envious of? It's the dream they had back east or the midwest, and they are living it.

Then they get older and older, their friends moved on, and they slowly get injured. Maybe it's a back injury from a flat landing that never gets better. Maybe they were dehydrated from drinking the night before, and they blow out their knee as their ACL is like a toothpick early in the mornings after drinking/skiing/drinking/skiing for months on end. Alcohol is taking a toll on their bodies much much much more than when they were in their twenties. but they have a bit of a habit now. The knee gives them issues indefinitely, they were never skier they were before. They have relied on being a great skier more than simply being outside, and if they are not a great skier, who are they then? They are sick of their shitty job, sick of girlfriends that don't last, friends who turn out not to be the greatest friends, and now their bodies can't do what they want them too. And all the problems they escaped from by moving out west to just ski coming flooding back. And since they already picked up a drinking habit from moving to a ski town, they lean on that crutch just a bit more to forget.

True happiness is a stupid cliche after all, because yes it's found within, not on a mountain top, and for many people it's really hard to find anywhere at all.

Dam.

That is good. I get the feeling you or someone close lived that experience based on the details you give.

[Bobcat Sig]

What I've seen: Many people move to the mountains young, looking to escape their problems. Big problems that are too complicated to comprehend when you are young. Pulling up roots is easy at 18, and they have nothing to lose. They get out west and spend all the days in the mountains, finally happy, thanks to dopamine. They spend a few too many nights drinking having a blast with like-minded friends, thanks to dopamine. They begin to drink too much, but they think they are living the dream. They identify as a skier or snowboarder, and a decent one at that. But they never confronted their real problems and dopamine does not equal true, long-lasting happiness. Their life is outside and 'free', but not much more. It's all they have and while in the moment, it's a beautiful life. Exploring new zones, breathing fresh air, being in shape, challenging oneself. What's not to be envious of? It's the dream they had back east or the midwest, and they are living it.

Then they get older and older, their friends moved on, and they slowly get injured. Maybe it's a back injury from a flat landing that never gets better. Maybe they were dehydrated from drinking the night before, and they blow out their knee as their ACL is like a toothpick early in the mornings after drinking/skiing/drinking/skiing for months on end. Alcohol is taking a toll on their bodies much much much more than when they were in their twenties. but they have a bit of a habit now. The knee gives them issues indefinitely, they were never skier they were before. They have relied on being a great skier more than simply being outside, and if they are not a great skier, who are they then? They are sick of their shitty job, sick of girlfriends that don't last, friends who turn out not to be the greatest friends, and now their bodies can't do what they want them too. And all the problems they escaped from by moving out west to just ski coming flooding back. And since they already picked up a drinking habit from moving to a ski town, they lean on that crutch just a bit more to forget.

True happiness is a stupid cliche after all, because yes it's found within, not on a mountain top, and for many people it's really hard to find anywhere at all.

That's as good of an assessment as I've seen or read. Well done.

If you think about it, we've all encountered - or at some point, maybe were - that jaded, crusty local that is angry at everything. That's the end game more often than not for what muted posted above. They never get out and they never get right.

And if that doesn't get them, the idea of keeping up with the jonses in a mountain town is a good assessment, as well. I saw that a bit for the nearly two decades I lived in Bozeman.

[muted]

Thanks guys, it's a small combo of me (mainly the knee and too many beers but the knee was back to 95% a long time ago) and also a combo of many different friends over the years. I've been thinking about how many friends I've lost to the mountains, how many friends have had severe injuries in the mountains, and how crazy it all is sometimes for a bit of happiness that doesn't last nearly long enough. And when an injury takes everything away, who are you then? Who were you all along? I have friends who struggle with this, mainly alone.

Anyways, it's just one aspect of mountain life and certainly not the end result for everyone.

[ncskier]

To me, you see these folks, these lost souls, lots of places, not just the mountains. The unifying factor is they fled their problems, they got to the end of the road ahead of their problems but the problems caught up. The end of the road...Montauk, Cape Hatteras, Key West, Alaska, I'm sure there's plenty of places on the west coast...people have this idea that if "I can get there then everything will be all right".

But moving to a place doesn't fix you, you gotta fix you yourself unfortunately. Moving to a place can give you some time where you have a chance to start over, but you can't waste that chance or it will end up being worse than it was before you moved. And then you don't have another idea, or another place to go.

Well said.. if you are as observant as Iceman you do see these folks everywhere. Even in the southeast in mountain towns, folks struggle as trout bums, white water bums, etc. I tend to see them in various vacation spots in the caribbean etc. Just "living the dream".
I do think there is a happy medium though compared to grinding it out on the L I E or I-95 in a nowhere rush to a cubicle grind though.
Like most things it comes down to balance. I've said for a long time if given one month off in February and one month off in August, I would be the most productive worker of all time the remaining few months. Its nice that I don't worry about housing, money or healthcare, but I do worry about time. Americans have a crappy vacation schedule. Grinding it out for decades sucks also. I have old fucks in the office who as a point of pride don't use all their vacation or take like 5 days off a year, 2 for a Colonoscopy.
I would trade $ for more time off.
I keep an insane schedule in order to fit everything in i like to do. in the past 3 weeks I worked in California for a week, slept in my bed one night, left for the mid-west to hunt for 5 days, slept in my bed for one night, then left for las vegas for 5 days which was client work and fun with wife, slept in my bed for one night, then hunted at a family farm with kids and brother in law and celebrated Thanksgiving.
My friends think im nuts sometimes, but i'll rest when they bury me or my health deteriorates.

[XXX-er]

We actually have the highest suicide rate in the Prov.

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/pu...al/suicide.pdf

Although - not sure how that relates to altitude as our health area runs from sea level to the mountains.

The level of suicides among our First Nations is also a national disgrace.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/suicide...bers-1.2854899

I didn't even think about the res but one in 3 people in the pacific northwest is FN

[Bobcat Sig]

Well said.. if you are as observant as Iceman you do see these folks everywhere. Even in the southeast in mountain towns, folks struggle as trout bums, white water bums, etc. I tend to see them in various vacation spots in the caribbean etc. Just "living the dream".
I do think there is a happy medium though compared to grinding it out on the L I E or I-95 in a nowhere rush to a cubicle grind though.
Like most things it comes down to balance. I've said for a long time if given one month off in February and one month off in August, I would be the most productive worker of all time the remaining few months. Its nice that I don't worry about housing, money or healthcare, but I do worry about time. Americans have a crappy vacation schedule. Grinding it out for decades sucks also. I have old fucks in the office who as a point of pride don't use all their vacation or take like 5 days off a year, 2 for a Colonoscopy.
I would trade $ for more time off.
I keep an insane schedule in order to fit everything in i like to do. in the past 3 weeks I worked in California for a week, slept in my bed one night, left for the mid-west to hunt for 5 days, slept in my bed for one night, then left for las vegas for 5 days which was client work and fun with wife, slept in my bed for one night, then hunted at a family farm with kids and brother in law and celebrated Thanksgiving.
My friends think im nuts sometimes, but i'll rest when they bury me or my health deteriorates.

Agreed. There's only one life. Live it.

You're also right about the vacation. We are shitty at taking taking vacation days and large corporations are equally as bad as allowing for it, including the behemoth that employs me. It's to the point where my superiors either let us take unreported days off or allow for time without pay so the punters in HR don't get it all twisted with PTO balances.

[Casey E]

Why don't you travel to Nepal and take a survey?

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Been to Nepal and found some of the happiest people on earth. Mind you, that was decades ago... Can’t say the same about the highlands of Peru or Bolivia, more paranoia and weirdness there.

[SKIP IN7RO]

I see multiple pitfalls in an urban lifestyle that could lead to some bad outcomes. I mean if you love where you live, who fucking cares?

[fastfred]

To me, you see these folks, these lost souls, lots of places, not just the mountains. The unifying factor is they fled their problems, they got to the end of the road ahead of their problems but the problems caught up. The end of the road...Montauk, Cape Hatteras, Key West, Alaska, I'm sure there's plenty of places on the west coast...people have this idea that if "I can get there then everything will be all right".

But moving to a place doesn't fix you, you gotta fix you yourself unfortunately. Moving to a place can give you some time where you have a chance to start over, but you can't waste that chance or it will end up being worse than it was before you moved. And then you don't have another idea, or another place to go.

yup, exactly moved west when I was 21

my brother spent years starting at age 19 between provincetown in the summer and keywest in the winter until he couldn't do it anymore (coke alcohol waiting tables)

[fastfred]

What I've seen: Many people move to the mountains young, looking to escape their problems. Big problems that are too complicated to comprehend when you are young. Pulling up roots is easy at 18, and they have nothing to lose. They get out west and spend all the days in the mountains, finally happy, thanks to dopamine. They spend a few too many nights drinking having a blast with like-minded friends, thanks to dopamine. They begin to drink too much, but they think they are living the dream. They identify as a skier or snowboarder, and a decent one at that. But they never confronted their real problems and dopamine does not equal true, long-lasting happiness. Their life is outside and 'free', but not much more. It's all they have and while in the moment, it's a beautiful life. Exploring new zones, breathing fresh air, being in shape, challenging oneself. What's not to be envious of? It's the dream they had back east or the midwest, and they are living it.

Then they get older and older, their friends moved on, and they slowly get injured. Maybe it's a back injury from a flat landing that never gets better. Maybe they were dehydrated from drinking the night before, and they blow out their knee as their ACL is like a toothpick early in the mornings after drinking/skiing/drinking/skiing for months on end. Alcohol is taking a toll on their bodies much much much more than when they were in their twenties. but they have a bit of a habit now. The knee gives them issues indefinitely, they were never skier they were before. They have relied on being a great skier more than simply being outside, and if they are not a great skier, who are they then? They are sick of their shitty job, sick of girlfriends that don't last, friends who turn out not to be the greatest friends, and now their bodies can't do what they want them too. And all the problems they escaped from by moving out west to just ski coming flooding back. And since they already picked up a drinking habit from moving to a ski town, they lean on that crutch just a bit more to forget.

True happiness is a stupid cliche after all, because yes it's found within, not on a mountain top, and for many people it's really hard to find anywhere at all.

like everyone else, well said and put together

I can say lots and lots and lots on this subject, been there done that seen that experienced that it's not pretty

met someone recently who just moved here to live the dream, 40 something, family etc, no drugs no alcohol, he's having a hard time adapting to the I don't give a fuck summit county attitude, I told him he'll be gone by next summer, he was alittle miffed that I told him he won't make it here and living here is not like the vacations he took, a couple days later he thought about it and agreed with me, although he will make a go of it

peoples attitude is pretty bad here overall, it's all about me, I don't give a fuck about anyone else

[fastfred]

i've categorized mtn living into two groups (maybe oversimplified):

1. guests
2. guest services

1. guests can be filthy rich, retired, or they can be tourists (not necessarily rich) that might drop $2,500-20,000 for a week of fun
or a quick trip up the hill from big city, either way, still guests...

2. everybody else is guest services, most g.s.'ers wants to live like guests

fwiw: I'm guest services....
and i quit drinking

I was told there are two types of people that move to the mountains, those who recreate and those who are hiding

along with what your saying micol, people are getting super burnt out on the service industry these days, what could easily be a life long carrer with good money is not there anymore, the sheer numbers of toursts these days and most of them are so demanding and clueless that people can't keep up with them

the 21st century tourist has become worthless, everything is an app, a review, a piece of clothing, gear, and photos online to say you came and conquered and I'm better than you

this is the new problem

[Name Redacted]

Ha! I'm so glad everyone has such a dire outlook on living in a mountain town, keeps the riff raff out.

Sure, suicide happens here, it happens everywhere. My brother killed himself in western South Carolina and that place sucks. There's more "end-of-the-road" folks here looking for salvation maybe, but for fucks sakes, we're not all like that.

Some people here are active, functioning, members of society who enjoy getting outside and doing shit when they are not at their job. But what do I know? The rest, like me, are just highly functioning alcoholics who will ski you into the ground I tend to gravitate toward those kind of folks.

Honestly, in Summit County Colorado I really have known only 1 guy who committed suicide in 21 years of living here. He was a bank manager who had just moved here and got a DUI and figured his life was over so ended it. Sad story for sure, but nothing like the picture that many of you were painting.

[summit]

@shredgnar we need to have a drink