Rocky Mountain Suicide Belt

[Benny Profane]

Yeah, four or five commenters brought up concussions. Helmets haven't been around for long.

[XXX-er]

Something they missed is the competition, the fact that moving to a place like whistler means you are a small fish in a very big pond where all the dudes ski/bike/ look > than you and it's pretty much the same for the women .

Unless you got the trust fund

[stfu&gbtw]

Something they missed is the competition, the fact that moving to a place like whistler means you are a small fish in a very big pond where all the dudes ski/bike/ look > than you and it's pretty much the same for the women .

Unless you got the trust fund

It's not the trust fund...

[Underoos]

apparently it's getting better...
But seriously it's nowhere near 10-1. Try 3-2 in a worst case scenario.
Vail - 140men-100women
Aspen - 117men-100 women
Jackson - 54%male-46% women

and as someone well over 45 doing better in that arena than i have the rest of my life i must respectfully disagree

In fishing, they say that 10% of the fishermen catch 90% of the fish. I have found this to be directly relatable to dudes who can get laid in the mountain town where I live. I still find it amazing that I met my wife here 13 years ago, and now we own a house and have a kid. But, I've always been pretty good at catching fish. Most of the people we knew back then are long gone. The ones that are still here are perpetual bachelors with a roommate, but seemingly happy.

[DeathVan]

As stfu said and underoos alluded to it is not what you have: dollars, time, or ability -wise.

It is your perspective on life that allows you to either recognize the amazing joys that exists in the mundane aspects of everyday reality in life (not just the resplendent glories of skiing or fishing to your true potential), or failing to do so become obsessed with the vacuity of existence when personal achievements fail to fill the cistern of meaning.

This David Foster Wallace speech speaks directly to this truly adult experience of reality and one's absolute need to recognize what life actually is, as it is experienced in the here and now, not as fantasy but as a remarkable and transcendent absolute where you control your ultimate choice and perspective.
-sadly his brilliance and insight were not enough to save him, and he committed suicide after writing some of the most beautiful and meaningful words I have ever experienced.

I hope his words can ring true for some of you, as much as they peal resoundingly within my own being.

-the speech is audio only but for those of you that can understand or need to understand, it is well worth the 22 minutes, imo

"This is water

This is water"

[powdork]

In fishing, they say that 10% of the fishermen catch 90% of the fish. I have found this to be directly relatable to dudes who can get laid in the mountain town where I live. I still find it amazing that I met my wife here 13 years ago, and now we own a house and have a kid. But, I've always been pretty good at catching fish. Most of the people we knew back then are long gone. The ones that are still here are perpetual bachelors with a roommate, but seemingly happy.

That's not just mountain towns, that's everywhere. And I have never been one of those guys. I think skiing helped. ALOT. Staring down my fears and jumping off something I knew could end badly helped me to come out of my shell and tell a girl how I felt about her, which I also expected to end badly. Sometimes it did end badly but learned that that was okay too. Just keep jumping, and not off bridges.
Don't get me wrong. I've also spent time driving down the road wondering where the right place to drop Nacho off was so that he wouldn't die in the crash, but would also get found so that he could be taken care of. All I can say is, ALWAYS keep active. And NEVER give up. They're both easier said than done, and tend to go hand in hand.

[skifishbum]

In fishing, they say that 10% of the fishermen catch 90% of the fish. I have found this to be directly relatable to dudes who can get laid in the mountain town where I live. I still find it amazing that I met my wife here 13 years ago, and now we own a house and have a kid. But, I've always been pretty good at catching fish. Most of the people we knew back then are long gone. The ones that are still here are perpetual bachelors with a roommate, but seemingly happy.

bunny aint got no fish n game and he'l tell you it's all fished out.
the guy who used to give me shit about not sackin up and moving west
had a trust fund
but he blew his brains out in front of his family at 25 rather than go to rehab
miss ya bobs
i'm a 1%er but only in the carp world
if you need a guide hire me

[stfu&gbtw]

As stfu said and underoos alluded to it is not what you have: dollars, time, or ability -wise.

It is your perspective on life that allows you to either recognize the amazing joys that exists in the mundane aspects of everyday reality in life (not just the resplendent glories of skiing or fishing to your true potential), or failing to do so become obsessed with the vacuity of existence when personal achievements fail to fill the cistern of meaning.

This David Foster Wallace speech speaks directly to this truly adult experience of reality and one's absolute need to recognize what life actually is, as it is experienced in the here and now, not as fantasy but as a remarkable and transcendent absolute where you control your ultimate choice and perspective.
-sadly his brilliance and insight were not enough to save him, and he committed suicide after writing some of the most beautiful and meaningful words I have ever experienced.

I hope his words can ring true for some of you, as much as they peal resoundingly within my own being.

-the speech is audio only but for those of you that can understand or need to understand, it is well worth the 22 minutes, imo

"This is water

This is water"

I actually had said basically the opposite of this, but not because I disagree with you... Mostly because most of us, myself included, can't be counted on to appreciate the magic in the mundane...

I, for one, would not get nearly as much enjoyment out of living in the mountains if I woke up every day and had to go to work at the gas station or the Carl's Jr. instead of going skiing, or hiking, or golfing, or whatever. As much as I would like to say that I'm so spiritually enlightened that just being here would be enough, there's no way that just being here is enough. I did my time in the rat race, and moved here when I didn't have to do that any more. I love being here, but a lot of it is because I get to spend tons of time with my family doing the things we like to do. Just having that opportunity is a dream come true for me, as someone who came from a broken home that I had to leave as a young kid. That is more meaningful to me than just being somewhere.

I don't know if working two shit jobs for deflated wages in order to pay my inflated expenses would make me want to kill myself, but it sure wouldn't be nearly as enjoyable as the alternative..

[Grape_Ape]

After college, I had a job lined up in Stowe as a ski tech (I had experiece) and was about to pull the trigger but I pussed out at the last minute. I have been trying to build a successful career in engineering for the past 20 years and that hasn't been easy either - maybe it's just me. This topic is really interesting to me because I always wondered what it's like to be a ski bum. Certainly, being stuck in Baltimore with a family to support doesn't afford much skiing but as I begin to make more money in my field, I am beginning to see how I could get more days in New England or out West. But fuck, doing the 9-5 thing with a commute sucks my balls. Monotony of everyday work. Depression - I can't get into the mountains!!! But at least I am building a career and will be able to save for retirement this year (kids and divorce are fucking expensive). Being in semi-big city like Baltimore lacks the pretentious dooshbags that we all rail against and I like that. I also have a support network of friends and family when I need them (and we all need them at some time in our lives).

I have a buddy who moved from Park City back to MD to pursue a career in his degree field (environmental science/engineering), but had to start at an entry level position at age 38. After 8 months, he said screw it and moved back to PC. I still think he struggles with his existence out there because he always asks for career advice and job openings.

[hutash]

Just take a look at the typical lifestyle. ..drinking too much, no real longterm relationships, both male and female due to the transient population, add in weather (storms make people depressed), lack of long term prospects (liftie for life?) and you have lots of reason so venture to that dark side. I am sure there are plenty of other factors as well, but alcohol has to be the biggest.

[Grape_Ape]

As has been said multiple times - abuse of alcohol and drugs in these mountain towns is the norm and can fuck your life up. Also...there are probably far fewer treatment options (AA, rehab) in close proximity. It's also the norm to abuse this stuff.

[liv2ski]

It was profoundly difficult when I couldn't do wildland fire work any longer and, thus, couldn't maintain a standard of living I considered minimum and keep skiing 100 day seasons in the mountains. It was heartbreaking to lose my house in Salt Lake...I had one last try at living in Taos...and that was a shit show. I did indeed stand on the edge of the gorge bridge in Taos...I have a friend in the fire dept there who would have had to deal with my body, and that bothered me too much to jump.

The thing is, you know you can fall back and struggle away from skiing...but it sucks. After 7 or 8 years of struggling, college, driving trucks, living in Illinois and Michigan...there's times when I see everyone's ski pictures in March at Snowbird and it's just agonizing. I knew it would be like this, and I didn't want to live like this, but I just kind of did it anyway....but it was just barely, there were so many times I just couldn't muster the courage to kill myself. I live in Michigan. I'm a fat, old, washed-up ski bum in Michigan. There are plenty of times when I look at my idiot coworkers in my menial job, or everyone thinks I'm weird because I'm not super excited about skiing 400 ft. of flat hardpack, or I see the flat horizon, or I have to have a conversation with some midwestern business douche who clearly thinks I'm a huge loser...plenty of those times when I think "this is what I was trying to avoid". I resent skiing, if I had kids I wouldn't want them to ski...between the concussions and the knee and back problems, and the transience, and the nebulous nature of the whole pro scene. The whole sport sets you up to fail unless you're sitting on a trust fund. Oh well, fuck it, I got caught up in skiing and this is how that all works out. I still have zero dollars and zero cents for retirement.

I think that's why there are so many ski town suicides, it's hard to make it all work, it's tenuous. Then how are you going to go back to the real world and be a huge loser...I think lots of people see that writing on the wall and would rather do a quick painless death than some prolonged, humiliating exercise in running out the clock on a game already lost.

And regular life after skiing isn't that bad, there is light at the end of the tunnel, it's there, but it's pretty hard to see it all working out when you start to see your ski-town life coming apart, I barely made it.

So what I am hearing is say away from the mountains when you have kids. Condition them to do the normal grind, have a good career, the house, wife and kids and if they are lucky, as I was/am, they discover their love for the mountains late in life. Sure, I will never ski as well as guys that did from childhood, but I have the financial resources to do it forever and still have family and friends too, which helps keep the demons away.
So parents, maybe think about the priorities you set up for your kids????

[stfu&gbtw]

So what I am hearing is say away from the mountains when you have kids. Condition them to do the normal grind, have a good career, the house, wife and kids and if they are lucky, as I was/am, they discover their love for the mountains late in life. Sure, I will never ski as well as guys that did from childhood, but I have the financial resources to do it forever and still have family and friends too, which helps keep the demons away.
So parents, maybe think about the priorities you set up for your kids????

Unfortunately, it's just not possible for 99% of the population to be financially secure and simultaneously spend most of their time doing something other than working. We decided to spend our 20's and early 30's focusing on accumulating wealth, so we could spend the rest of our lives focusing on other things. We still periodically do things that earn income, and our lifestyle wouldn't be the same without that income, but it has afforded us the ability to prioritize other things. That has been more meaningful than just living in the mountains, although this has (usually) been a lovely place to do it.

[summit]

Spring.

Closed lifts, clouds for weeks, rain, storms, crappy snow conditions, snowed in bike trails, rivers aren't flowing, expiring leases, seasonal jobs ending, friends moving away, restaurants closed, addicts who binged on the outdoors shift to alcohol and drugs...

There is a reason those in mountain healthcare call it Mental Health May

[summit]

No way. I mean the numbers. And I'm not pulling numbers out of my butt. Surveys have been done over the years, and 10-1 is a good round number.

No way... I know what 10:1 looks like. I went to an engineering school where it literally was 9:1. The mountains are not 10:1.

[GeezerSteve]

Sobering article though not surprising. It took me a long time to conclude that the keys to happiness are low expectations and low overhead. For all but a few, trying to make it in a ski town during ones working years is a leveraged bet of high expectations with high overhead.

[summit]

Sobering article though not surprising. It took me a long time to conclude that the keys to happiness are low expectations and low overhead. For all but a few, trying to make it in a ski town during ones working years is a leveraged bet of high expectations with high overhead.

spot on

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

As with anything in life it's all about balance. When I lived in the mountains I was just another dumb kid who drank too much and had no concept of how much money it takes to really live and not be paycheck to paycheck.

For the past 5 years I have been doing the grind in NJ like a sucker. Never go full rat-race.

Now the goal is go get back out west, as a business owner and be near the mountains for solid 2 or 3 day trips with the realization that I might ski/bike 60-75 days a year and not the 150-200 like I was fortunate enough to pull off back in my drunken college days.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Sobering article though not surprising. It took me a long time to conclude that the keys to happiness are low expectations and low overhead. For all but a few, trying to make it in a ski town during ones working years is a leveraged bet of high expectations with high overhead.

spot on

What you really need to do is find a "ski town" that's not really a ski town. Substitute mountain town for ski town at your whim. I can see the difficulty in trying to make a go of it in your typical resort town but there are a lot of nice mountain havens in the intermountain west that you can find a living wage job in and be in close proximity to the mountains and other outdoor pursuits. It's all about expectations and perspective.

[Name Redacted]

Sobering article though not surprising. It took me a long time to conclude that the keys to happiness are low expectations and low overhead. For all but a few, trying to make it in a ski town during ones working years is a leveraged bet of high expectations with high overhead.

Exactly, if you are trying to keep up with the Jones's in a resort town, you will fail miserably and be miserable. The Jones's come from money, get monthly dividend checks that they'll never admit to, and can take risks that you can't. "Oh, I didn't like my job so I quit, even though I just bought a house and a new car".

However, if you don't really care abut a fancy new car, material possessions, big house, you can actually get by pretty well. You can work hard, be smart, pay attention, and work your way up the chain and have a decent life living in the hills.

I struggled with depression my whole life, and I've found that I am much happier where I'm at than living anywhere near a city or the flatlands. I don't function well if I can't get outside in the woods or on the snow on a regular basis.

[Buster Highmen]

The article covers a lot of stressful factors present in a ski town: the financial gradient, the exclusive cliques, transience of significant social contact ("community"), avarism, and environmental factors (which I might question).

But the thing the article only briefly touches on and in a different way, is the type of people attracted to ski resorts as a lifestyle.

A lot of us are dreamers and may not have a solid foundation in the practicum of life's requirements and share that with folks who move to the resorts.

We're risk takers where at least some part of the time, we make leaps without a sufficiently careful examination of the consequences or calculations of the likelihood of failure. I think that's really essential to being a skier, whether it's letting 'em run out of a wedge on the bunny slope or tossing meat over mad, jagged rocks. That's fundamental to the joy of skiing, that and an ability to progress and to know that one's best has the possibility of being better if we try harder. There's also something of a requirement of parenting in there too.

How well prepared are dreamers for failure? Does dreaming require some level of denial in order to try, in order to make that reach for the perfect turn or the sweet shack life on the fringe of the wealthy?

I think a lot of us can relate to the gutpunches of failure and getting up over and over again. It sucks and it's hard.

So I don't really find it that mystifying when fellow dreamers crash and decide to end it. I understand.

[GeezerSteve]

Substitute mountain town for ski town at your whim. I can see the difficulty in trying to make a go of it in your typical resort town but there are a lot of nice mountain havens in the intermountain west that you can find a living wage job in and be in close proximity to the mountains and other outdoor pursuits.

I agree. My comment was about ski towns. If I were a young man in search of work, I'd be looking at a place like The 'Snatch (although see this re Chelan County suicide rate). FWIW, there's a good chance we'll be moving E of the crest in the next year.

[AK47bp]

The article covers a lot of stressful factors present I a ski town: the financial gradient, the exclusive cliques, transience of significant social contact ("community"), avarism, and environmental factors (which I might question).

But the thing the article only briefly touches on and in a different way, is the type of people attracted to ski resorts as a lifestyle.

A lot of us are dreamers and may not have a solid foundation in the practicum of life's requirements and share that with folks who move to the resorts.

We're risk takers where at least some part of the time, we make leaps without a sufficiently careful examination of the consequences or calculations of the likelihood of failure. I think that's really essential to being a skier, whether it's letting 'em run out of a wedge on the bunny slope or tossing meat over mad, jagged rocks. That's fundamental to the joy of skiing, that and an ability to progress and to know that one's best has the possibility of being better if we try harder. There's also something of a requirement of parenting in there too.

How well prepared are dreamers for failure? Does dreaming require some level of denial in order to try, in order to make that reach for the perfect turn or the sweet shack life on the fringe of the wealthy?

I think a lot of us can relate to the gutpunches of failure and getting up over and over again. It sucks and it's hard.

So I don't really find it that mystifying when fellow dreamers crash and decide to end it. I understand.

Good point, chicken or the egg kinda thing. People that move to ski towns already have a propensity to straddle the line and engage in risky behavior.

Risk taking for enjoyment, you can't come back from that. Everything else is blah....

[Art Shirk]

There may be an analog in more tropical resort areas too. Friends who took off to bum it on the beach and surf everyday seemed to have it all figured out after college. Anecdotal I know, but most of my friends who did that never made it out. They wanted to world to pass them by, and then when it did, they didn't know how to cope. Little money, few skills, expensive locale. Being "one" with the ocean wasn't sustainable. I've had more than a few chances to move back to my family's town in HI but I knew it was probably better to visit.

[summit]

What you really need to do is find a "ski town" that's not really a ski town. Substitute mountain town for ski town at your whim. I can see the difficulty in trying to make a go of it in your typical resort town but there are a lot of nice mountain havens in the intermountain west that you can find a living wage job in and be in close proximity to the mountains and other outdoor pursuits. It's all about expectations and perspective.

I think that is a good answer for many long term. A lot of newcomers want the scene, the drinking, the drugs, and the idea of living in a resort town... and they don't see appeal in living somewhere else like Salida, Montrose, Grand Junction, Durango, or any of the other dozens of large towns to small cities in the intermountain west that are not The-Mountain-Resort-Life though they offer better opportunity to cost of living, less seasonality, and maybe more support.

I do have to say that those comparing Park City or even SLC to living somewhere like Teller Co (Telluride) or Roaring Fork Val (Aspen) or Eagle/Summit... man that just isn't a level comparison! The stressors are just on a different level when it comes to cost of living, employment situations, or even seasonality... the cultural thing is apples and oranges too.

I've been lucky enough to find a good job and a good wife (who also has a good job) that lets us get by well in the mountain town life, but most don't have that kind of career opportunity. We have challenges, but a diversity of pursuits and there are challenges mentioned in that article that nobody is immune to, but life is good for us. Still can't do anything about the April/May weather Someone could have my good situation and easily end a sad statistic in the article if they had the predisposition to fate of depression or other mental illness combined with the innate unavoidable stressors of ski town life.

Buster Highman's last post about what characterizes ski town residents is on point!

The thing about statistics is that it isn't a statistic if you know them. In all of this analysis, I think one thing we can take away is this: take the time to learn warning signs of depression and suicide. Take the initiative to ask people if they need help, even if they just an acquaintance. Don't judge. Help them find what they need. YOU could be the the difference! I'm dead serious!