How are realtors still a thing?

**neufox47** · 04-21-2016, 10:46 PM

Has anyone ever paid their realtor commission and thought, well that was well worth it? Right now in Boston people are paying 5% of their $750k home sale for a few hours worth of work. Making matters worse the real estate agents underprice the home so it is more of an auction than a sale. Realtors walk away with $18k each. Thanks suckers. How is this still a thing? Well other than that the realtors association has lobbied to minimize competition and block alternative methods. Biggest ripoff that most people go through IMO.

**BmillsSkier** · 04-21-2016, 10:54 PM

It's a sellers market in many places these days. Moved from one in-town house to another in ATL recently where there is ZERO inventory. Had 9 above ask offers in the first 6 hours before even posting to MLS. Realtor separated the wheat from the chaff and had 4 signed back up offers same day. While she didn't "do shit" compared to what the market did I absolutely believe she earned her keep.

The disgruntled buyers' agents that went so far as lobbying allegations of collusion and chicanery on faceplace and other "professional" outlets, not so much.

**neufox47** · 04-21-2016, 11:13 PM

Don't you feel like they grossly underestimated the value of your home if there were 9 offers that exceeded it in 6 hours? Why wouldn't you price it 15 - 20% higher and wait a few weeks to expand the pool of people who are willing to bid on it?

**basinbeater** · 04-21-2016, 11:15 PM

Yep. Mine. When we were looking in park City, he kept passing things our way and encouraged us to go see a house that was no longer on the market. He knew the listing agent from before, and they reached out to the owner if he would still entertain an offer. He did and we got a steal of a deal in pc. We only got it because he knew the market, knew specific homes that had come and gone on the market, and understood what we were looking for.

**Garth Bimble** · 04-21-2016, 11:18 PM

Sold my house in the Denver area last fall. The realtor we hired was a complete cunt, showed up one day and told us all this shit he would do and then never saw him again. He'd call when we'd go under contract (3 fucking times, that's another story) but when they'd fail or some other shit would come up he'd have one of his lackeys call and he had one for every situation. A complete dick.

That said, we moved to the Durango area and the guy we hired here is a saint. He put up with all our BS (there was a lot) and never gave up on us. See him all the time and consider him a good friend.

Probably doesn't help much....?

**Viva** · 04-22-2016, 01:10 AM

If you're selling, then you really don't need an agent- the title and escrow people do all that paperwork anyway. However, a good agent working your area will know people looking to buy in that same area. At least their office should. What I'm saying is, a good agent can bring in people or developers, who already have proof-of-funds, and who will likely want your house. Such agent should also know how to price your house so that it ends up selling for over listing (multiple offers !!!). Commission is negotiable, always. If an agent tells you otherwise, drop that bitch like a bad habit. At the end of the day, if you make an extra $100K despite paying $80K in commission, so fucking what? Going without an agent, maybe you end up under-selling. Every situation is different, figure out what makes financial sense for you. Paying someone to make you more $$$ than you would have otherwise ain't a bad strategy.

**guroo270** · 04-22-2016, 04:27 AM

Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

It's a sellers market in many places these days. Moved from one in-town house to another in ATL recently where there is ZERO inventory. Had 9 above ask offers in the first 6 hours before even posting to MLS. Realtor separated the wheat from the chaff and had 4 signed back up offers same day. While she didn't "do shit" compared to what the market did I absolutely believe she earned her keep.

The disgruntled buyers' agents that went so far as lobbying allegations of collusion and chicanery on faceplace and other "professional" outlets, not so much.

Seriously? My co-worker has one or two homes in ATL that he says he's underwater on them and can't sell them.

And I disagree with your assessment situation. I really think that pricing your home cheaper than you want to wraps in more buyers and gets more action. Homes are very personal and people get attached before they own. I did. You want to create a bidding war. As a kid my parents bought a house, remodeled, then sold numerous times. Always stated below what they wanted and got more than they were asking for.

**VTeton** · 04-22-2016, 06:49 AM

You selling or buying in Boston? If it's Bos, Cam, ARL etc, be prepared to bid above asking. I despise 95% of realtors. Got into it with a Greenwich CT realtor couple weeks ago while trying to help a friend. Anyone have sale comps access in Greenwich? Happy to setup a MLS alert for you or pull a MA comp or two but I don't sling homes for a living.

**Danno** · 04-22-2016, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by neufox47

Don't you feel like they grossly underestimated the value of your home if there were 9 offers that exceeded it in 6 hours? Why wouldn't you price it 15 - 20% higher and wait a few weeks to expand the pool of people who are willing to bid on it?

I'm unsure about your overall premise on realtors, but the idea that 9 offers over asking is evidence that it's under priced, or that you could get more by pricing way higher, is flawed. In this market, you want multiple over list offers, to create a bidding war. If a property sits on the market for a few weeks, people wonder what's wrong with it.

**liv2ski** · 04-22-2016, 07:12 AM

But with all this said, if you live in a hot market, there are 1% listing services and you pay the buyers agent 2%. So 3% on a $750k house is about $22k. That seems fair to me. It is the listing agent that is grossly over compensated on a normal 5%-6% listing.

**bagtagley** · 04-22-2016, 07:26 AM

As a buyer, I see little reason not to use an agent. If nothing else, they can get you into the house, preventing you from having to deal with a pitch from every seller's agent letting you in the house. They can also provide some history on properties, and have access to some really useful data that can be hard to get on your own.

As a seller, I don't see much point. I'm certain I'll be told differently by all the TGR realtors that love to come into these threads and tell everybody how wrong they are, but my experience tells me otherwise. Working without a realtor, you quickly realize how much manufactured drama is added to the process by the fact that all information is passed through two sales people. Talking face to face with the person looking to buy what you're selling is so much easier. None of the he-said, she-said, so-and-so is being difficult, etc. Just straight answers. Clearly, this isn't always the case, but I'm willing to bet it's more common than not. The internet provides all the tools you need, the difficult part is showing the house. If you're lucky, you can find a person that does just that for a fee.

**BmillsSkier** · 04-22-2016, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by neufox47

Don't you feel like they grossly underestimated the value of your home if there were 9 offers that exceeded it in 6 hours? Why wouldn't you price it 15 - 20% higher and wait a few weeks to expand the pool of people who are willing to bid on it?

Nope. Because we thought we were moving 6 months earlier and listed it and took it down same day when the house we wanted sold in a day. Came back and priced it 18% higher and still got the bidding war. Couldn't justify a list any higher due to comps. Eventual buyer even paid the premium over appraisal to bring it up to his purchase price.

Originally Posted by guroo270

Seriously? My co-worker has one or two homes in ATL that he says he's underwater on them and can't sell them.

What part? Are they in Atlanta as in "in-town"? We're in Buckhead and there's nothing available in the 3-4bd market between 550k and $1.5M.

2 bed 1 bath in the old hood went for 545k in a day. Insane.

**liv2ski** · 04-22-2016, 08:13 AM

Funny thing is, in my area, homes do not sell in a day, but that is because the average sales price is likely $2.5M. Fuckin nutz what prices are in coastal CA. Having been in the mortgage biz for 30+ years, I see where the buyers agents earn their money, as showing homes to flaky buyers blows.
I have thought down the road, I will offer a flat fee (say maybe $5k) to represent sellers. I will give them the normal listing agent services they expect, except they pay for all the fancy ass advertising they want or need. Shit, 1% of $2.5M is $25k, so a flat $5k fee leaves them a bunch of advertising room. Pretty sure my time into the deal would be less than 50 hours and the goal is to make $100 per hour and cover my minimal expenses.
Do a few deals per year in retirement and it is all good.

**4matic** · 04-22-2016, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by liv2ski

I have thought down the road, I will offer a flat fee (say maybe $5k) to represent sellers. I will give them the normal listing agent services they expect, except they pay for all the fancy ass advertising they want or need..

I used this. $149 includes includes website.

https://www.mlsmyhome.com/?gclid=CKu...FQcMaQodcqAOBA

As a seller you are forced to offer a buyer agent commission. You will just miss too many buyers if you don't use MLS and offer a couple points. Most buyers will use an agent because in their mind it doesn't cost them anything. A flat fee buyers agent might be a good idea but you'd probably need a broker license.

**Danno** · 04-22-2016, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by bagtagley

As a buyer, I see little reason not to use an agent. If nothing else, they can get you into the house, preventing you from having to deal with a pitch from every seller's agent letting you in the house. They can also provide some history on properties, and have access to some really useful data that can be hard to get on your own.

As a seller, I don't see much point. I'm certain I'll be told differently by all the TGR realtors that love to come into these threads and tell everybody how wrong they are, but my experience tells me otherwise. Working without a realtor, you quickly realize how much manufactured drama is added to the process by the fact that all information is passed through two sales people. Talking face to face with the person looking to buy what you're selling is so much easier. None of the he-said, she-said, so-and-so is being difficult, etc. Just straight answers. Clearly, this isn't always the case, but I'm willing to bet it's more common than not. The internet provides all the tools you need, the difficult part is showing the house. If you're lucky, you can find a person that does just that for a fee.

I think it depends on the seller. If the seller is smart, savvy, and willing to do some work (mostly research) than I agree, they won't see much value in a listing agent. But even in my crazy market, it's not that hard to imagine a good realtor getting a seller an extra twenty grand or more. Thus paying for themselves.

**XXX-er** · 04-22-2016, 08:32 AM

My last realtor was great she got the place sold in just 3 weeks at the market peak just before things went down the tubes (around here) in feb 2007, I was living 400 kms away so if i had fucked around and did it myself I would have been chasing a falling market to the bottom. At some point we were 5K apart on a price and there was new snow so I said to her "you done this thousands of times eh? So you do it ...I'm going skiing"

**Foggy_Goggles** · 04-22-2016, 08:53 AM

It is not so much the service they provide, it is the price of the service and the fact that the price (percentage) is generally fixed. And some of your "theories" about real estate pricing is just spew you are repeating from your agent. Read the Feakanomics chapter on real estate pricing. Hint: your house is worth what someone else will pay for it. Not a penny more, not a penny less. It is a negotiated market price. The whole idea that a "listing price" some how sets the market is a joke. You've got your head up your ass is you think your realtor has any real incentive to get you the best price (3%X10K=$300).

There are good realtors, there are bad realtors. There service is entirely too expensive.

**oftpiste** · 04-22-2016, 09:02 AM

Bottom line is that your agent knows more about that field than you do. As does your plumber, electrician, lawyer etc. Where just about any professional earns their keep is when the shit hits the fan and they know how to fix it because they've fixed it before. Of course if you get a crappy professional it's a different story.

The shit doesn't always hit the fan and professionals like it when things go smoothly. The money's better and there's not as much stress for any of the parties. This is good for clients and good for the professional's business. That's why they're there; to make sure things go smoothly.

The professional you engage can not only fix a problem but prevent it from happening in the first place. Most of the time the client will never see this because the professional is doing their job with skill and care.

This is why realtors are 'still a thing'.... and plumbers, and electricians, and code warriors and medical and public safety professionals (not that I'm comparing them to realtors in their importance), and lawyers, and insurance companies, and accountants and website designers and forum operators, therapists, and on and on and on ad nauseum. You study something, do it many times for many years, you get so you know more about it than most other people. Others will pay you to help them. Pretty simple.

**Buster Highmen** · 04-22-2016, 09:12 AM

There's assholes and incompetents everywhere as well as manipulative or arrogant do nothings. Unfortunately, they get more attention than the people who do things well. We're becoming a species of critics.

Everyone can rattle on about shitty contractors, shitty real estate agents, shitty clients, shitty coders, etc. Sometimes, yeah, it's deserved, sometimes not. I'm usually on the side of getting it that I don't know what another person is going through, I don't know what they do really. But in some situations, I have had enough experience to know whether somebody blows or not. I fire the people who suck and try to keep my mouth shut about it. But the people who do well, I try to give the love.

Back on point, I negotiated a deal with a realtor on the last deal I did where I got a discount on each of the selling and buying fees. Things did not go entirely smoothly on the sell, but the market was just breaking then (2006). So, I'm ambivalent in that experience about whether it was worth it. I hope not to generalize about it.

**guroo270** · 04-22-2016, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

Nope. Because we thought we were moving 6 months earlier and listed it and took it down same day when the house we wanted sold in a day. Came back and priced it 18% higher and still got the bidding war. Couldn't justify a list any higher due to comps. Eventual buyer even paid the premium over appraisal to bring it up to his purchase price.

What part? Are they in Atlanta as in "in-town"? We're in Buckhead and there's nothing available in the 3-4bd market between 550k and $1.5M.

2 bed 1 bath in the old hood went for 545k in a day. Insane.

I'll find out and get back to you.

**stalefish3169** · 04-22-2016, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

What part? Are they in Atlanta as in "in-town"? We're in Buckhead and there's nothing available in the 3-4bd market between 550k and $1.5M.

For a moment I thought I somehow got switched into the first world problems thread.

**XXX-er** · 04-22-2016, 09:18 AM

My ski bud the ex land pimp tells me at least in this town a small group of realtors were the producers, did 80% of the business and he was one of them, sez after paying office fees advertising yadayada net commission was well south of half I think he said he would actualy net 1/8th of that commision

I bought this house direct, it was a slow market so the place sat on the market for 5 months and dropped more than 10% he might have got more thru an agent but that would have been eaten up in RE commission it was probably a fair price,

I had L Hutz esq do an airtight purchase agreement/conveyance/ disbursement ect from beginning to end which was smooth, the vendor wanted to change things half way to closing but I said no ... this is the deal you signed.

**Foggy_Goggles** · 04-22-2016, 09:21 AM

If I lived in WA, Oft would be my realtor. Seriously. I live in a community that has a disproportionate number of realtors including many of my friends. The "good ones" say that on balance, the "bad ones" make there live easier by setting the bar pretty low.

I'd ask any realtor, "How were you paying your billing in 2011". A lot of realtors arrive on the scene when the market is hot. In defensive of there commissions, it is a very cyclical business and it is hard to make money when there are no commissions. That said, don't come crying to me when your outta money cause you purchase a big house, RV, 3 annual vacations etc. when you were closing 2 deals a month.

**Danno** · 04-22-2016, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

Hint: your house is worth what someone else will pay for it. Not a penny more, not a penny less. It is a negotiated market price. The whole idea that a "listing price" some how sets the market is a joke.

Thank you! Given the crazy market here, I find myself talking about real estate a lot. And everyone always talks about how this place or that place went $X over asking, as evidence for something (how nuts the market is, how people are paying crazy amounts, etc) as if "asking price" was some magic number that meant something. And very few understand me when I challenge that assumption. It's just a number, some set it low and some set it high and there are reasons for doing either, but how much a property went over asking is not very meaningful, generally speaking. What matters most is the sale price, and then there is other date like how it compares to comps, how many days on the market, etc. That a property went for over asking may provide some info along with all the other data, but it is a minor data point.

**Danno** · 04-22-2016, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

There's assholes and incompetents everywhere as well as manipulative or arrogant do nothings. Unfortunately, they get more attention than the people who do things well. We're becoming a species of critics.

Everyone can rattle on about shitty contractors, shitty real estate agents, shitty clients, shitty coders, etc. Sometimes, yeah, it's deserved, sometimes not. I'm usually on the side of getting it that I don't know what another person is going through, I don't know what they do really. But in some situations, I have had enough experience to know whether somebody blows or not. I fire the people who suck and try to keep my mouth shut about it. But the people who do well, I try to give the love.

As someone in one of the most shit-upon professions, I get it.