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  1. #2926
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    965
    Quote Originally Posted by Rossymcg View Post
    Hardpack....what the fucks that? I've got rocks roots and rain.
    ]
    I think hardpack is what is below all the moon dust? Maybe?

  2. #2927
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Vancouver BC
    Posts
    3,062
    I can't imagine running MaxxGrip rear outside of the bike park/DH bike (and buying said tires in bulk as they do not last), feels so slow pedaling to me. MaxxTerra feels pretty dang good (DHR II) outside of really greasy conditions.

  3. #2928
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Walpole NH
    Posts
    9,633
    How bout these? American Classic is back and the rubber looks good and itís cheap! Just ordered a pair of Wentworths 700x40 tubeless, $70 for the pair! Gonna throw them on my gravel rig, will report backÖ

    https://bikerumor.com/2021/09/15/ame...iny-price-tag/
    crab in my shoe mouth

  4. #2929
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Evergreen Co
    Posts
    613
    Iíve been impressed with Maxxterra. Hard to put a number on but it seems a lot more grippy than their standard dual casing tires.

  5. #2930
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Carbondale
    Posts
    11,311
    I put some max grip on the back for riding some rock slab last year and was blown away at the Velcro feel for thatÖ then in swapping I ended up with that in the back and max terra in front and that was a mistakeÖ itís a boat anchor but man is it also fun.

    SkaredÖ
    I think it depends on what fun is


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    www.dpsskis.com
    www.point6.com
    formerly an ambassador for a few others, but the ski industry is... interesting.
    Fukt: a very small amount of snow.

  6. #2931
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Boulder
    Posts
    5,689
    Update on Butcher and Eliminator.

    I'm a bit torn on these, when they work well, I think they work great. However, I've had a few instances that are leaving me questioning them.

    1. Eliminator Grid Gravity T7/T9 29 x 2.6- This worked great on the rear on the Switchblade. It's lacks the full braking / climbing traction that something like a DHR has, but it was very predictable while cornering. Ultimately, though, it is slow as hell. Whether it's the compound or the casing I was struggling to keep up on climbs. The T9 cornering knobs seem to be wearing faster than the T9 Butcher I have in the front. Center lugs still look good.

    2. Eliminator Grid Trail T7 29x 2.6: Same as above but much improved on the rolling resistance. For general trail riding it's great. For Steep and Loose it could be better. Doesn't seem to have any wear issues, but too early to tell.

    3. Butcher Grid Trail T9 29 x 2.6: I got this as a DHF alternative. Braking traction is great. Compound seems good for our dry trails. Wear is appropriate (better than MaxxGrip) / wearing slower than the T9 compound in the rear Eliminator. I do, however, think they have a design issue. The Side Lugs are set next to the center lugs, which is in contrast to the DHF where they are offset from each other. On the Specialized, with the side and center lugs lined up, this creates a clear lateral channel. I've had a lot of front end "push", especially on looser / sandy surfaces. I've never had this issue with a DHF, so I don't think it's a lean issue. Maybe there is some soil conditions where this is helpful (organic / wet?). I can also see this open channel design being useful on a rear tire where a controlled drift can be welcomed (Maxxis Dissector has a similar lug alignment). Because of this issue, though, I've lost trust in the tire.

    4. Specialized Eliminator Grid T7 29x 2.3: This is on the front of the burlier wheelset for the Epic Evo. Some far I'm happy with it. Rolls reasonably well and seems to hook up when I mob into corners way too hot for 120mm of suspension to handle. Definitely not an XC tire but fast enough for when you need a grippy tire on a trail bike. I have gotten one puncture through a rocky section that was sealed without issue with a Stan dart. Riding buddy didn't puncture, but I can't say I'm surprised I got the flat.

    5. Specialized Purgatory Grid T7 29 x 2.3: Rear of the burley wheelset for the Epic Evo. Same as above; seems completely appropriate for a trail-bike rear tire. Less grip than anything I'd run on the Switchblade, but fast enough for when I want a grippier tire on the trail bike.

  7. #2932
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    in the trench
    Posts
    13,590
    Quote Originally Posted by XtrPickels View Post
    Update on Butcher and Eliminator.

    I'm a bit torn on these, when they work well, I think they work great. However, I've had a few instances that are leaving me questioning them.

    1. Eliminator Grid Gravity T7/T9 29 x 2.6- This worked great on the rear on the Switchblade. It's lacks the full braking / climbing traction that something like a DHR has, but it was very predictable while cornering. Ultimately, though, it is slow as hell. Whether it's the compound or the casing I was struggling to keep up on climbs. The T9 cornering knobs seem to be wearing faster than the T9 Butcher I have in the front. Center lugs still look good.

    2. Eliminator Grid Trail T7 29x 2.6: Same as above but much improved on the rolling resistance. For general trail riding it's great. For Steep and Loose it could be better. Doesn't seem to have any wear issues, but too early to tell.

    3. Butcher Grid Trail T9 29 x 2.6: I got this as a DHF alternative. Braking traction is great. Compound seems good for our dry trails. Wear is appropriate (better than MaxxGrip) / wearing slower than the T9 compound in the rear Eliminator. I do, however, think they have a design issue. The Side Lugs are set next to the center lugs, which is in contrast to the DHF where they are offset from each other. On the Specialized, with the side and center lugs lined up, this creates a clear lateral channel. I've had a lot of front end "push", especially on looser / sandy surfaces. I've never had this issue with a DHF, so I don't think it's a lean issue. Maybe there is some soil conditions where this is helpful (organic / wet?). I can also see this open channel design being useful on a rear tire where a controlled drift can be welcomed (Maxxis Dissector has a similar lug alignment). Because of this issue, though, I've lost trust in the tire.

    4. Specialized Eliminator Grid T7 29x 2.3: This is on the front of the burlier wheelset for the Epic Evo. Some far I'm happy with it. Rolls reasonably well and seems to hook up when I mob into corners way too hot for 120mm of suspension to handle. Definitely not an XC tire but fast enough for when you need a grippy tire on a trail bike. I have gotten one puncture through a rocky section that was sealed without issue with a Stan dart. Riding buddy didn't puncture, but I can't say I'm surprised I got the flat.

    5. Specialized Purgatory Grid T7 29 x 2.3: Rear of the burley wheelset for the Epic Evo. Same as above; seems completely appropriate for a trail-bike rear tire. Less grip than anything I'd run on the Switchblade, but fast enough for when I want a grippier tire on the trail bike.
    Im with ya on the eliminator grid gravity. The t7 center knob rubber sucks on wet roots and rocks. Worse than any tire in recent memory. Other than that theyve been great. I bought them to try thinking theyd extend the tire life for the bike park and they have. Good design in that regard because the t9 side knobs still work well.
    No issues with the butcher t9. Quite impressed actually. Might be our dirt but super traction on some funky missed lines and they just hooked up no drama. Considering putting one ln the rear for fall.
    Grid gravitys are a nice weight compromise looking at dh tires. Not the heaviest or heaviest duty but then theyre not as sluggish as heavier options. After a few weeks im noticing sone tire squirm unless i pay attention to psi. 20/21 front w no liner was sketchy and any low 20s rear was the same w liner. Started to hear rim pings and thought the tires were going to rip off.
    I'd like to get some sturdy casing 2.6 ultrasofts from schwalbe for fall. Big betty f/r or mm f/bb r in supergravity. Super dh might be overkill for my spring fall usage but with the wider tire i want a more rigid casing to mask sone of that balloon tire feel. I think its just schwalbe offering sonething like that. Weight penalty but they were good shoes

    Sent from my SM-G950W using TGR Forums mobile app

  8. #2933
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    slc
    Posts
    14,648
    Quote Originally Posted by XtrPickels View Post
    3. Butcher Grid Trail T9 29 x 2.6: I got this as a DHF alternative. Braking traction is great. Compound seems good for our dry trails. Wear is appropriate (better than MaxxGrip) / wearing slower than the T9 compound in the rear Eliminator. I do, however, think they have a design issue. The Side Lugs are set next to the center lugs, which is in contrast to the DHF where they are offset from each other. On the Specialized, with the side and center lugs lined up, this creates a clear lateral channel. I've had a lot of front end "push", especially on looser / sandy surfaces. I've never had this issue with a DHF, so I don't think it's a lean issue. Maybe there is some soil conditions where this is helpful (organic / wet?). I can also see this open channel design being useful on a rear tire where a controlled drift can be welcomed (Maxxis Dissector has a similar lug alignment). Because of this issue, though, I've lost trust in the tire.
    Interesting. I didn't notice any unwanted push when I rode AC's Stumpy EVO with a Butcher up front, but it was the 2.3 version and full hero dirt at the time.

  9. #2934
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    NorCal coast
    Posts
    1,069
    I noticed push on the Butcher 29x2.6 also, and chalked it up to being 2.6 and round profile. It honestly felt mismatched with the Eliminator... like the Eliminator was a bit better grip than I expected, and the Butcher worse.

  10. #2935
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hell Track
    Posts
    10,952
    Agreed that the Butcher pushes a little more than a DHF.

    The Butcher falls into the category of "looks like a DHF, but performs a little worse," which is a category that covers a shitload of tires from the last ~15 years.

  11. #2936
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Back in Seattle
    Posts
    656
    Eliminator T7 vs Dissector Maxxterra vs Nobby Nic as the front tire on the hard tail trail bike in the PNW? Looking for some new rubber as I start to ride the hardtail more due to rain, want something fast rolling and lightish but still solid grip for more packed smoother trails but still plenty of wet roots and rock. I have a Hans Damf on there now which I don't really like, had a magic mary on there before but want something faster. I also have a FS for harder trails.

  12. #2937
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    453

    New Season, New Tires, New Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by XtrPickels View Post
    Update on Butcher and Eliminator.

    I'm a bit torn on these, when they work well, I think they work great. However, I've had a few instances that are leaving me questioning them.

    1. Eliminator Grid Gravity T7/T9 29 x 2.6- This worked great on the rear on the Switchblade. It's lacks the full braking / climbing traction that something like a DHR has, but it was very predictable while cornering. Ultimately, though, it is slow as hell. Whether it's the compound or the casing I was struggling to keep up on climbs. The T9 cornering knobs seem to be wearing faster than the T9 Butcher I have in the front. Center lugs still look good.

    2. Eliminator Grid Trail T7 29x 2.6: Same as above but much improved on the rolling resistance. For general trail riding it's great. For Steep and Loose it could be better. Doesn't seem to have any wear issues, but too early to tell.

    3. Butcher Grid Trail T9 29 x 2.6: I got this as a DHF alternative. Braking traction is great. Compound seems good for our dry trails. Wear is appropriate (better than MaxxGrip) / wearing slower than the T9 compound in the rear Eliminator. I do, however, think they have a design issue. The Side Lugs are set next to the center lugs, which is in contrast to the DHF where they are offset from each other. On the Specialized, with the side and center lugs lined up, this creates a clear lateral channel. I've had a lot of front end "push", especially on looser / sandy surfaces. I've never had this issue with a DHF, so I don't think it's a lean issue. Maybe there is some soil conditions where this is helpful (organic / wet?). I can also see this open channel design being useful on a rear tire where a controlled drift can be welcomed (Maxxis Dissector has a similar lug alignment). Because of this issue, though, I've lost trust in the tire.

    4. Specialized Eliminator Grid T7 29x 2.3: This is on the front of the burlier wheelset for the Epic Evo. Some far I'm happy with it. Rolls reasonably well and seems to hook up when I mob into corners way too hot for 120mm of suspension to handle. Definitely not an XC tire but fast enough for when you need a grippy tire on a trail bike. I have gotten one puncture through a rocky section that was sealed without issue with a Stan dart. Riding buddy didn't puncture, but I can't say I'm surprised I got the flat.
    Agree with 3., 2.6 pushes out front but only recently while worn in a grid trail T9. I feel like my cornering trust has gone down recently. I want to try the 2.3 butcher grid trail T9 up front as it actually measures close to a 2.4. I think taller center knobs would also be good, closer to a MM.

    As for the eliminator 2.3 grid trail T7 in the rear, love it, like a dissector. I live in the desert per-say and its been great other than a torn side lug which i super glued. Great grip on up and down and great breaking in the dry.

    Overall great tires for the money, skin wall looses air faster than other non-skin kin. Will buy again in 2.3 on both ends.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  13. #2938
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Treading Water
    Posts
    5,545
    Eliminator T9/T7 2.6 Grid Gravity Whatever DH layup. Set up in the back.
    1. Wearing like a MaxxGrip. Maybe wearing faster. Probably not quite as grippy. So the lower price advantage isnít working out, since I wanted it to last like a MaxxTerra.
    2. Good tread grip 85% of the time. But 15% of the time itíll swim around a bit. Especially on fast flat turns. So, like a Butcher: great straight line traction. Not as great for the turnings.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Lots of Cream, Lots of Sugar

  14. #2939
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    SLC burbs
    Posts
    2,996
    Speaking of Eliminator, anyone interested in this one?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Ordered a black one from Specialized and they sent me the penis-colored version. Vanity prevents me from mounting it on my glorious-looking bike so I got in touch with customer service to setup up a return after I found the right model locally. No response from CS until yesterday when I got an email saying keep the tire and expect a replacement in the mail. Now I have 3 Eliminators. I'll put the tan sidewall one in the mail for shipping + beer $$.
    "Your wife being mad is temporary, but pow turns do not get unmade" - mallwalker the wise

  15. #2940
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    453
    Iíll take it if itís not already spoken for, p.m. sent


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  16. #2941
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    SLC burbs
    Posts
    2,996
    Tire is most likely gone, 2 people in line, I responded to PMs!
    "Your wife being mad is temporary, but pow turns do not get unmade" - mallwalker the wise

  17. #2942
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    965

    New Season, New Tires, New Thread

    Somebody rec me a DHF-style front tire in 27.5 x2.5ish.

    I have a DHF in DD and Iím loving the sidewall support. Unfortunately the DD only comes in MaxxGrip and itís suuuuper slow. I can feel myself slowing down on stuff I used to accelerate on. Itís taking a lot more pedal energy and Iím losing momentum in the pumps. DHF does come in EXO+ but from what Iíve read, itís more puncture protection and doesnít do anything for squirm.

    Thinking Vittoria Mazza? I like the 4C compound (run on my Barzo/Mezcal) and itís 120tpi. Maybe has more sidewall support than an EXO? Open to other suggestions.

  18. #2943
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    3,770
    I've been running a Mazza for a few months. Very high quality tire. Supportive and supple with a great casing. About to take it to Moab to see how it grips on slickrock.

  19. #2944
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Mid-tomahawk
    Posts
    1,322
    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon3 View Post
    Somebody rec me a DHF-style front tire in 27.5 x2.5ish.

    I have a DHF in DD and I’m loving the sidewall support. Unfortunately the DD only comes in MaxxGrip and it’s suuuuper slow. I can feel myself slowing down on stuff I used to accelerate on. It’s taking a lot more pedal energy and I’m losing momentum in the pumps. DHF does come in EXO+ but from what I’ve read, it’s more puncture protection and doesn’t do anything for squirm.

    Thinking Vittoria Mazza? I like the 4C compound (run on my Barzo/Mezcal) and it’s 120tpi. Maybe has more sidewall support than an EXO? Open to other suggestions.
    I dunno who has them in stock, but Maxxis does make a MaxxTerra DD DHF, in a 2.5 x 27.5.

  20. #2945
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    240
    My new bike came with Mazza/Martello, in the standard casing not the heavier e-bike/enduro or whatever theyíre calling it casing.

    Iíd say the casing is more similar to an EXO than a DD, havenít ridden EXO+. Itís not particularly thick or stiff, and I did put a good size hole in the Martello rear in only a few rides so replaced it with something more robust. As far as the tread goes though, Iíve been quite happy with the Mazza.

  21. #2946
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    965

    New Season, New Tires, New Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HAB View Post
    I dunno who has them in stock, but Maxxis does make a MaxxTerra DD DHF, in a 2.5 x 27.5.
    You are correct that they have more DD but only in a 2.3. The only other 2.5 is a downhill casing at 1400g which is too much.

    I really like my 2.5 aggressor rear and donít want to have a skinny up front. Plus i like a little beef

  22. #2947
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Missoula, MT
    Posts
    21,729
    Quote Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong View Post
    My new bike came with Mazza/Martello, in the standard casing not the heavier e-bike/enduro or whatever theyíre calling it casing.

    Iíd say the casing is more similar to an EXO than a DD, havenít ridden EXO+. Itís not particularly thick or stiff, and I did put a good size hole in the Martello rear in only a few rides so replaced it with something more robust. As far as the tread goes though, Iíve been quite happy with the Mazza.
    What size? Do you have actually size?
    Interested in hearing about the 2.6
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  23. #2948
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    240
    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    What size? Do you have actually size?
    Interested in hearing about the 2.6
    Sorry, my Mazza is 29x2.4. But in case it helps, just measured it and itís 62mm casing, 60mm tread, mounted on 29mm ID rim.

  24. #2949
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Hyde Park, Vt
    Posts
    508
    So I just switched from 2.6 Specialzed Butcher/eliminator T9 to 2.5 DHF/2.4DHR 2 both 3c Maxxterra WT EXO +,. While I might end up the extra cushioning of the 2.6 rear tire on my Canfield N9, the Maxxis tires grip on wet roots an rocks so much better. like after 2 year on Specialized tires its like I can ignore root section when wet, the tires just grip so good that there is almost no difference between the hard surface and the dirt. With that said I think the Specialized combo was better in loose stuff, had more volume, and honestly on warm dry days probably is impossible to feel the less sticky rubber.

    Basically if your ride where it can be damp/wet/ "Sweaty" rocks on humid days maxxis is worth the extra coin, if you are in dry most of the time, Specialized can save some money and proved to be a really durable tire. Does Maxxis Make a 2.6 EXO + DHR2 3c Maxterra? I can nt find that combo anywhere

  25. #2950
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    240
    Quote Originally Posted by Bushwacka View Post
    So I just switched from 2.6 Specialzed Butcher/eliminator T9 to 2.5 DHF/2.4DHR 2 both 3c Maxxterra WT EXO +,. While I might end up the extra cushioning of the 2.6 rear tire on my Canfield N9, the Maxxis tires grip on wet roots an rocks so much better. like after 2 year on Specialized tires its like I can ignore root section when wet, the tires just grip so good that there is almost no difference between the hard surface and the dirt. With that said I think the Specialized combo was better in loose stuff, had more volume, and honestly on warm dry days probably is impossible to feel the less sticky rubber.

    Basically if your ride where it can be damp/wet/ "Sweaty" rocks on humid days maxxis is worth the extra coin, if you are in dry most of the time, Specialized can save some money and proved to be a really durable tire. Does Maxxis Make a 2.6 EXO + DHR2 3c Maxterra? I can nt find that combo anywhere
    They do, or at least did. Theyíre on the 2020 Maxxis catalog, but I didnít see them listed on the website anymore. A few places had 29Ē in stock:

    https://www.jensonusa.com/Maxxis-Min...-II-29-Tires-7

    Quick search couldnít find 27.5.

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