New Season, New Tires, New Thread

[jm2e]

Exo.
I actually thought all the folding bead minions were Exo and the only differences were tread density/stickiness.
But, I admittedly get overwhelmed and impatient with any tire company that has tons of layers of ambiguous tire options. Which is why I so often turn to my more learned internet friends.

[jackstraw]

I'm a huge fan of the DHF and R for riding in New England, but riding in Santa Cruz I don't think it would be the best tire combo for me. Out there I rode on the butcher/slaughter and it was pretty sweet. Probably faster or in my case just more efficient as I'm not into speed. Dirt doesn't cushion like the powdah.

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

Been riding DHR/DHF in wide trail version since last August on 42mm internal rims. Grippy as fuck. Just for the hell of it I trimmed all the center knobs on the dhr to try and make a DIY wide trail minion SS. May be awesome or may suck balls.

[toast2266]

Exo.
I actually thought all the folding bead minions were Exo and the only differences were tread density/stickiness.
But, I admittedly get overwhelmed and impatient with any tire company that has tons of layers of ambiguous tire options. Which is why I so often turn to my more learned internet friends.

Get one with a doubledown casing. The Exo just has some sidewall reinforcements. The Doubledown is a full two ply tire, but it's not as heavy as a DH casing (Doubledown is 2x120tpi, DH is 2x60tpi), and it still gets a folding bead.

[kidwoo]

Exo.
I actually thought all the folding bead minions were Exo and the only differences were tread density/stickiness.
But, I admittedly get overwhelmed and impatient with any tire company that has tons of layers of ambiguous tire options. Which is why I so often turn to my more learned internet friends.

Look at weights. That will tell you more than reading a bunch of casing marketing gobbledeegook. But no just because you tore ONE version of a DHR2 doesn't mean that DHR2s are week. The first molds they ever made were DH tires fer cryin out loud.

[LC]

Look at weights. That will tell you more than reading a bunch of casing marketing gobbledeegook. But no just because you tore ONE version of a DHR2 doesn't mean that DHR2s are week. The first molds they ever made were DH tires fer cryin out loud.

Kind of, but not entirely. Look at casing thickness in the sidewall and between the tread as well as weight, but some casings just seem stronger than others regardless. Being the geek I am, I've been measuring thicknesses of my last few rear tyres before mounting:

Maxxis DHR2 EXO, 27.5x2.4: 920g, 1.03mm sidewall, 1.52mm between tread
Specialized Butcher Grid 27.5x2.4: 930g, 1.25mm sidewall, 2.15mm between tread
Michelin Wild Rock'R2 Gum-X 27.5x2.35: 1100g, 1.28mm sidewall, 2.55mm between tread
WTB Trail Boss Tough/Fast 27.5x2.4: 1060g, 1.75mm sidewall, 2.40mm between tread

I rode a lot of DHF and DHR2 EXOs in the past and would usually put 2-3 holes between the tread blocks in the life of each tyre (mostly pinch-flats I'm pretty sure). The Butcher Grid was the only rear tyre I didn't put holes in at all, but the Grid's rubber compound wore out quicker than I'd like; still I'd maybe get one again cheap on eBay in the future (people take them off new bikes and sell them very cheap); The Purgatory Grid's casing is way thinner than the Butcher Grid by the way. The Wild Rock'R2 is my current rear, significantly heavier than the DHR2 and also thicker at the tread but I've still put two holes in it so far. The Trail Boss will be mounted soon and I have high hopes for it based on the numbers and how it feels in-hand, but it's going to suck if the trails get sloppy. Old Schwalbe Snakeskins wore out too fast for me on the rear and I don't really like their treads for the rear so I haven't tried or measured any of their Super Gravity casings. If there's an Aggressor or DHR2 DoubleDown 2.4 coming I'll try it sometime. E13s look good but cost about double any other option in Europe.

My everyday riding is very rough and rocky (natural walking tracks 90% of the time) but I've only had one sidewall tear in the past 5 years, and that was with a lightweight Schwalbe so I don't think much about sidewall durability. Thicker sidewalls do just feel a bit more solid on the trail though.

[WaistDeepGroomers]

Feel like the new play is DD rear Exo front, no? Cut the weight where you're less likely to be throwing your weight down.

[ticketchecker]

Considering the 2.6 Forekaster/rekon for a F/r combo on i35's

[LC]

Feel like the new play is DD rear Exo front, no? Cut the weight where you're less likely to be throwing your weight down.

Yep. I'm sticking with Snakeskin Magic Marys on he front (a little lighter casing than EXO). Only ever had one puncture and I like the weight.

Friends who ride more aggressively than me go for reinforced or even DH on the front but I've never felt the need.

[kidwoo]

Kind of, but not entirely.

Yes pretty much entirely.

There's more to durability than thickness. Dense material is dense. It doesn't need to be thick. Half an inch of silicone is still weaker than a 1/8" of Kevlar (and guess which weighs more)

I've ridden (and torn) every one of those tires in your list. I still stand by what I said.


I was also a test rider for maxxis when they started all these new casings. The problem with them is that not all EXO tires are the same and not not all DD tires are the same. It's absurd. They vary the amount of material between EXOs to EXOs, and DDs to DDs as well. There are some EXO tires that are tougher than some DD tires for example. They should be clubbed over the head for this. But that's why weights tell you more than their supposed hierarchy of casing toughness. Every single tire made by any reputable company is trying to get somewhere on the spectrum between the lightest tough tire and the toughest light tire. Truth be told they're still screwing around with different ways to do this. If they had the most bomber system all tires would use it and they'd just vary subtle things about the design for their target use.

Anyway......that's my experience-based system. Seems to work.

[detrusor]

Can't read the whole thread (won't)

What's the consensus on 29er rubber for all mountain riding. Have an ardent and a minion right now.

Not hard on tires, like the width and grip but would love some lower weight and rolls g resistance.

[PhishingME]

2.5 DHF and 2.3 Maxxis Aggressor on 30i rims. Pretty sure they're both DD. I tend to ride a lot of rocks so like the sidewall protection.

[D(C)]

I just jumped on the Plus-Minus program and bought a 27.5x2.6 Butcher Grid for the front on my Commencal Meta V4. It barely clears the arch on my non-Boost Pike. I'm looking forward to trying it out. Hopefully it's solidly grippy without feeling too blunt in fast corners.

Previous tire was a Michelin Wild Rock'r 2, which was awesome but heavy. The new one is about 140 g lighter.

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

FWIW my DIY Wide Trail Minion SS is fucking tits. Rolls super fast now, but all handling seems to be the same. No loss of braking power, still hooks up in the corners, climbs like a champ. I think on wet roots it would be pretty hairy, but the speed savings on loose/hardpack are well worth it.

[jm2e]

YThe problem with them is that not all EXO tires are the same and not not all DD tires are the same. It's absurd. They vary the amount of material between EXOs, and DDs as well. There are some EXO tires that are tougher than some DD tires for example. They should be clubbed over the head for this.

Pretty much why I asked. Sounds like It'll always be a bit of a crap shoot.

[kidwoo]

Pretty much why I asked. Sounds like It'll always be a bit of a crap shoot.

It's not.
I'm not kidding look at weights.

No tire weighs what it does because someone wants that weight. It's all a compromise. And if a tire is kinda heavy it's because in some way, construction-wise they wanted to make it tough. Obviously that's not walmart tires, those are heavy because they're cheap. But any tire from a serious company (possibly with a lot of dumb acronyms) applies

[stuckathuntermtn]

So, thoughts on 2.3 DHF, 2.3 DHR II, 2.4 HR on the front and Minion SS on the rear vs Butcher Slaughter? 29"
Thinking the smaller Maxxis size will sit squarer and roll faster on my skinny rims and with that, in addition to Exo, will squirm less than 2.3 control, but the differences may be minor.
Hardtail. XC/Trail. Dry. Hardpack. Loose over hardpack. Hardpack over hardpack.
Maybe need new tires mid summer.

[LC]

I've ridden (and torn) every one of those tires in your list. I still stand by what I said.

I understand what you're saying but I can't say I agree that heavier always equals stronger, for how and where I ride anyway.

[stuckathuntermtn]

So, is there another thread where someone has done to dhf/ss vs butcher/slaughter comparison?

[creaky fossil]

So, thoughts on 2.3 DHF, 2.3 DHR II, 2.4 HR on the front and Minion SS on the rear vs Butcher Slaughter? 29"
Thinking the smaller Maxxis size will sit squarer and roll faster on my skinny rims and with that, in addition to Exo, will squirm less than 2.3 control, but the differences may be minor.
Hardtail. XC/Trail. Dry. Hardpack. Loose over hardpack. Hardpack over hardpack.
Maybe need new tires mid summer.

More actual riding.

Presently, 99% e-riding and 1% actual riding makes you think it matters which tire you choose. I rode with you, saw your "skills," and know what you lack. It's not tires.

Maybe you should try riding with people who use XC racerboy tires and still slay the trails that make you so sluggish and inept. Of course, you'd keep up only for 100yds or so, but hey, you e-ride like a wizard! You regurgitate Kevin Bazar's udi-ness!

The little teddy bear on a flying carpet is correct, for once, about weight being your guide and the irregularity of EXO durability/thickness. So follow that once you actually start logging at least 15 hrs/week on a bike on dirt.

[jamal]

I'm way on the other side of the spectrum, but I don't see myself ever using a DHF type tire for the trails around here. Too heavy and slow to haul thousands of feet uphill, and most stuff is hard-packed enough to not need all that tread. I'd assume on hardpack a small knobbed XC tire has as good or better grip anyhow.

And I'll gladly give up some grip to have less rolling resistance on all day rides with a ton of climbing. I'm considering a rocket ron, or an x-king, or maybe a nobby nic for the front- something with reasonably sized, evenly distributed knobs. Wasn't so thrilled with the ardent race as a front tire since the transition knobs basically do nothing and it is harder to get a tall posted xc bike all the way over on the side knobs. Would rather go back to the ikon than get another one of those, but it might be good as a rear tire.

I'm here nearly every week:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/thursdaynightmtbr/

Some fast guys, some slower riders, we're not in a hurry and wait up for everyone. Bridge pizza afterward. Show up some time.

[WaistDeepGroomers]

More actual riding.

So follow that once you actually start logging at least 15 hrs/week on a bike on dirt.

15 hours a week?? Man, I dream about being able to pull that off.

[grskier]

15 hours a week?? Man, I dream about being able to pull that off.

seriously!? You don't have a family yet (do you?)... this is when you get on that

[Danno]

I don't get fifteen hours a month, most months. That doesn't mean I am not allowed to care about what tires I use.

[WaistDeepGroomers]

seriously!? You don't have a family yet (do you?)... this is when you get on that

I'm at about 3 sessions a week that my wife can tolerate (and I can motivate to get out for). Also my entire posterior chain locks up after every ride so usually like to give 'er a day to unwind.