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  1. #126
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  2. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    No doubt. Full retard.

    Sent from my SM-G930T using TGR Forums mobile app
    Last edited by charles martel; 11-11-2017 at 07:19 AM.

  3. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    That was tough to read. He's right about the anxiety, depression, hormone balance, adipose tissue, adrenaline, and a lot of physiological claims, but he needs to lay off the curing MS & Cancer bs.

    FWIW, I'm still breathing everyday and still love cold water two years on. I haven't gotten sick in that time either. All in all, I just like how it makes me feel. I genuinely miss cold water when the tap temperature rises above 15C.

  4. #129
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    I strongly believe there is no real evidence for any of this and it's a load of crap.
    [quote][//quote]

  5. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki View Post
    I strongly believe there is no real evidence for any of this and it's a load of crap.
    Ditto. Show me a clinical study that demonstrates its efficacy and I'll buy it. Until then it's snake oil.

    edit: after posting this I did some research and it certainly seems like there is some evidence to support that it does seem to have some validity. So my bad.
    Last edited by The AD; 11-14-2017 at 11:15 AM.

  6. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaijin View Post
    but he needs to lay off the curing MS & Cancer bs.
    There's that, but mostly I found the idea that recruiting a handful of over-the-hill celebrities will lead to mass adoption of the method to be truly bizarre.

    Quote Originally Posted by gaijin View Post
    All in all, I just like how it makes me feel. I genuinely miss cold water when the tap temperature rises above 15C.
    Agreed. During and after a breathing session and/or cold shower you feel fucking amazing. I'm also on a bit of a mission to make my life my workout and cold exposure dovetails with that goal perfectly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki View Post
    I strongly believe there is no real evidence for any of this and it's a load of crap.
    This link that gaijin posted on the previous page is excellent (and written by a PhD): https://www.foundmyfitness.com/reports/cold-stress.pdf

    Scott Carney's interview on the Art of Manliness podcast (also posted previously) is worth a listen: http://www.artofmanliness.com/2017/0...cold-exposure/



    Carney is an investigative journalist who took Wim's class with every intention of exposing the guy as a charlatan (he says that explicitly). He ended up climbing Kilimanjaro with the guy (in 24 hours, without acclimatizing and without developing altitude sickness). Here's Carney's bio:

    Investigative journalist and anthropologist Scott Carney (scottcarney.com) has worked in some of the most dangerous and unlikely corners of the world. His work blends narrative non-fiction with ethnography. Currently, he is a senior fellow at the Schuster Institute for Investigative Journalism and a 2016-17 Scripps Fellow at the Center for Environmental Journalism in Boulder, Colorado. What Doesn’t Kill Us, his most recent book, is a New York Times bestseller; other works include The Red Market and A Death on Diamond Mountain. Carney was a contributing editor at Wired for five years and his writing also appears in Mother Jones, Men’s Journal, Playboy, Foreign Policy, Discover, Outside and Fast Company. His work has been the subject of a variety of radio and television programs, including on NPR and National Geographic TV. In 2015 he founded WordRates, a website that aims to add transparency to the business of journalism with Yelp-esque reviews of magazines and editors. In 2010, he won the Payne Award for Ethics in Journalism for his story “Meet the Parents,” which tracked an international kidnapping-to-adoption ring. Carney has spent extensive time in South Asia and speaks Hindi. He attended Kenyon College and has a masters degree in anthropology from the University of Wisconsin-Madison. He currently lives in Denver, CO


    To be clear, I am all about skepticism in this age of rampant bullshit and misinformation. However, there is abundant scientific evidence that pretty much anything that challenges homeostasis (cold, heat, exercise, altitude, hunger) is good for you. Cold exposure happens to be safer than exposure to extreme heat, has practical benefits for those of us who live in temperate climates and participate in winter sports, and we all shower every day anyways (hopefully!). Focused breathing and mindfulness meditation have well documented physiological and psychological benefits. They are cornerstones of yoga practice.

    Yes, cold is uncomfortable (at first). So is exercise, but that doesn't make it a legit excuse to not exercise. If someone said to you that they don't exercise "Because it's uncomfortable/makes my lungs burn/makes my muscles sore/I'd rather watch Dancing With The Stars" you'd look at them with derision. Replacing "exercise" with "cold" in that statement doesn't magically transform it.
    Last edited by Dantheman; 01-16-2018 at 05:11 PM.

  7. #132
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  8. #133
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  9. #134
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    #fuckyeahit'scoldoutsideagain

  10. #135
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    I donít see a lot of downside to this so why not try it.

  11. #136
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    bump

    Any of the wim hofers still wim hofing? Any progress reports?

    Heard about it a while ago, looked into it recently and figured I'd test out the breathing technique. Results were auspicious at home so stepped it up to employing a similar method doing aerobic exercise. Results were again subjectively auspicious. Did some A/B comparisons while doing my normal workout uphill hike. Hike includes a pretty steep average incline with 4 distinct steeper pitches. Steep part of hike is about 1000 vert feet plus 400 of lower angle terrain to finish.

    Results were: preloaded with a cycle of breathing pre hikes. legs/body/brain felt quite a bit fresher out of the gate, no real warmup period, just felt ready to charge. breath control was maintained during and after longer steep anearobic pitches even when heart rate bumped close to max range. kinda felt like less lactic acid buildup after the interval blasts and quicker recovery from hard efforts. three hikes using mostly wim hofing vs. two 'just breathing' resulted in faster hike times on the WH hikes...not by a lot but notably so and the hikes just felt a bit easier.

    Could all be placebo but the 'feelz' are good and I'll take it. Interesting meditative effect on the mind for strenuous hiking...the breathing requires quite focused discipline to maintain control when the heart rate cranks up...and that really reeled in the mind to the moment; foot placements, balance and breathing.

    Based on these subjective results, going forward it'll be interesting to design a test scenario and get some hard numbers.

    Also, really curious how things translate to ski touring uphill and downhill ski runs...for downhillz, can a guy pound more moguls on a zipper line before gassing out? More jump turns down that 3000 foot, 55 degree couloir before needing a rest break? Peak to creek speed runs with delayed onset of fire in quads?

    The cold water and outdoor exposure also seems really interesting, but, at middle age there are enough pain lockers in life. Dunno if I gots the gumption to voluntarily walk through the door into another one...time will tell.
    Last edited by swissiphic; 08-25-2019 at 10:54 AM.
    Master of mediocrity.

  12. #137
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    Swissiphic, care to give a precis of the breathing techniques, or a link?

  13. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by swissiphic View Post
    Any of the wim hofers still wim hofing? Any progress reports?
    Not still... but again. I took an unintentional break from the breathing for about eight months. I just kind of let it fade out of my life. And I continually felt worse and worse and continually told myself to get back at it.

    Then something weird began to happen. I'd wake up in the middle of the night and unconsciously decide to do a few rounds of breathing. I would be half asleep but I'd charge through 3-4 rounds, falling asleep during retentions. So... now I'm back on the regular schedule and feeling normal again. I think my body (and mind) literally missed it. So I took the hint.

    With that time off my retention times are still 2:30-3:00 or so... which took me a several months to get to from 1:00-1:30 at my beginning. It's not really about the time, it's about the feeling, but the time is definitely a skill that develops.

    There's a lot that goes on in the brain with this kind of breathing and retaining. I won't pretend to be an expert on the science, but I simply know it makes me feel better, function better, think better, everything. (But I'm also kind of mental and would probably benefit from meds, too, to balance the chemistry up there.)

    With the routine and disciplined breathing meditation in my life, I find myself controlling my breath throughout the day more, too. Just quick mental resets.

    All said... I never went back to warm showers. I don't really take ice baths anymore. Too expensive and in the winter the ground water is cold enough to be brutal. It gets difficult around 15C, really difficult around 10C, and pins and needles around 4C (Dec-March). Just kind of boring during the summer.

    I did however stop talking about Hoffing with people unless they ask. There just isn't enough evidence to back up my claims of how it makes me feel.

    Cold water is real.
    Breathing meditation is real.
    Both are simple and have palpable benefits that outweigh the zero costs (except for time.) And both are really simple to excuse yourself from not doing so can be hard to keep up in the long term.
    Last edited by gaijin; 08-27-2019 at 12:02 AM.

  14. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Island Bay View Post
    Swissiphic, care to give a precis of the breathing techniques, or a link?
    Well, I started with the Joe Rogan podcast then just started you tubing various Wim Hof related youtube vids...there's a lot of content out there.

    Some of the stuff sounds hokey, some sounds legit, some appears to be backed by science, some anecdotal, some pure speculation and some fairly outlandish claims.

    One of my questions is what long term positive or negative affects would/does wim hoffing have on the brain, internal organs, etc... Have enough people done it long enough to provide a reasonable sample size?

    Are there unintended negative unforeseen emergent phenomena after decades of consistent, disciplined wim hof based breathing cycles, cold water immersion and outdoor cold exposure...even if only in smaller proportions of participating members?





    Master of mediocrity.

  15. #140
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    Follow them on facebook, or get on their mailing list. I was just invited to be part of a rheumatoid arthritis study group but I needed blood samples from before beginning the WHM. Which I don't have.

    That said, my shoulder arthritis pain / inflammation did decrease when I began the training. But I don't know if that's to be associated with WHM or simply the weight that I lost.

    I was stoked on the decrease in shoulder pain and shared it with my surgeon friends who smiled and said: That's probably the placebo effect. To which I responded: I'll take that!

    Because if I can trick myself into feeling better... that is some major control over life.

    Here is a little piece on Brown Fat... which gets generated after repeated cold exposure. https://www.popsci.com/brown-fat-bca...ZvTKgdZvEq7RX0

    Another on why I had to begin again...
    https://qz.com/quartzy/1132986/neuro...TDiv6FTOGbeYmE
    Last edited by gaijin; 08-27-2019 at 05:44 AM.

  16. #141
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    Update. Been employing pseudo Wim Hof breathing consistently during my 5 day a week, one hour uphill hiking sessions since Aug. Recently switched to ski touring and continued with the breathing technique for uphills and for preloading the body/brain before downhills. I've also continued with consistent daily cold showers in the mornings...tolerance for full cold water has decreased in time duration a bit since the tap water has cooled with the change of seasons. I can last about 1.5 minutes these days. Water temp presently measures at 7.2 degrees C. Musical accompaniment is Northwest Passage by Stan Rogers. Full body cold water immersion in lakes and streams has yet to be tested since the waters have cooled close to the freezing point. Still a bit apprehensive at this point, hoping to face that demon soon.

    Benefits noted for hikes and ski touring:

    1. Body feels more consistent in power delivery and vitality for longer outings.
    2. Less feeling of aches/pains/muscle/joint soreness during exercise.
    3. Better endurance during early days of ski touring compared to other years even though the general summer/off season cardio routine has been the same for decades.
    4. More anaerobic power for short steep pitches of uphilling. Crank up the pseudo wim hoffing intensity before/during steep pitches and it feels easier to 'stay on top of the gear'.
    5. Cold resistance of body core improved. Skied toured in minus 15 degrees C with strong gusty outflow winds and didn't feel the need to add a layer to the two part base layer + old soft shell for insulation...both for the up and the downhills. In the past I probably would have put on a goretex shell for some extra windproofing/slight bump in heat retention.
    6. Post full day ski touring muscle soreness and DOMS greatly reduced. Always feel a bit stiff/sore after a ski tour when getting out of the car but those sensations are nuked by the post ski regular temp then full cold shower. It feels like a reset button for the body and the effects basically seem to last until hopping into bed for the night.
    7. Early days yet for the ski touring season but it seems like there's less sweating of the head/trunk occuring. If this is a long term change, hallelueah. Getting soaked in sweat sucks in winter with the instachill if you stop moving.
    8. Starting the day with the cold shower still seems like the most painful, intense, challenging thing that occurs every day...this effect has resulted in the feeling that the rest of the day's challenging situations are just somewhat easier to deal with. Previous situations that may have provoked a stress response just don't seem to trigger a reaction that result in high subjective levels of response...most negative emotions just seemed damped to a fairly significant degree.

    Drawbacks/lack of improvement:

    1. Core body seems to generate/hold heat better but not the feet and hands. Still getting cold fingers and feet when out in minus 15 degree C plus wind conditions.
    2. The pain of the daily cold shower is still as much of a physical/psychological challenge to face as when the program was initiated.
    Last edited by swissiphic; 11-30-2019 at 09:11 AM.
    Master of mediocrity.

  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by The AD View Post
    Ditto. Show me a clinical study that demonstrates its efficacy and I'll buy it. Until then it's snake oil.

    edit: after posting this I did some research and it certainly seems like there is some evidence to support that it does seem to have some validity. So my bad.
    not the cold specific treatment>but, alternating temperatures promotes blood flow ...its basic in most sports training
    ice sore body parts . then heat in hot tub . ice again, if needed

    rinse repeat/I healed a few wicked injuries that would sent most to the hospital, with this technique .. and my rehabs seem to be faster than average

    Breathing .lol/of course you need breathing exercises.. this ain't no rocket science

    Cold is natural to work out in too/of course we can push harder in the cold>we don't overheat as easy.

    Program???? sounds like basic common sense
    ski paintingshttp://michael-cuozzo.fineartamerica.com" horror has a face; you must make a friend of horror...horror and moral terror.. are your friends...if not, they are enemies to be feared...the horror"....col Kurtz

  18. #143
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    First test of direct skin exposure to cold temps during a ski tour. Baby steps; this tour was no shirt. Hoping to eventually test no shirt/no pants, just shorts. Temps were minus 5 -7C, winds were calm to very light. Ski touring uphill at a low to moderate intensity level for about 1800 vert feet.

    Body remained warm, felt more efficient and noted greatly reduced amount of perspiration. Started off wearing gloves but removed them after about 500 vert feet due to hands being too hot. Remained shirtless for the 20 minute lunch break with no loss of feeling warm enough.
    Master of mediocrity.

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