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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by zartagen View Post
    Haven't you been following along? Sharing cheese fries, ski passes, and knowledge is immoral.
    breathe > freeze> breathe > try not to give yourself a heart attack ,if you are not quite in decent athletic condition> send me 50$ for the info, is fine.
    ski paintingshttp://michael-cuozzo.fineartamerica.com" horror has a face; you must make a friend of horror...horror and moral terror.. are your friends...if not, they are enemies to be feared...the horror"....col Kurtz

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by baron View Post
    breathe > freeze> breathe > try not to give yourself a heart attack ,if you are not quite in decent athletic condition> send me 50$ for the info, is fine.
    Get a life Jong

  3. #103
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    Looking like this is a obligatory blog by peoples involved w the program...or they would share info freely,hence my previous post's sarcasm .

    Go sell your worthless program elsewhere...ice therapy only works on a small percent of the public..its a DNA trait ,that allows it to work, in few cases...or the polar bear clubs would have a zillion members.

    Ice therapy is a proven way to heal injuries though....alternating ice/heat promotes cell regeneration , and helps blood flow ...I healed a 90%tore calf muscle / hamstring tear without hospital B S. There is old thread in medical section w picture- just about my whole leg was purple except the knee and foot. Heat pad/ice/ heat pad /ice/I lived w my leg wrapped in the heat pad almost 2 weeks..swappin ice on it, as much as I could...i'd rather break a bone>when a muscle goes pop, and it takes way longer to heal.

    Bust out some info for those who ask>u can PM them ,if you don't want to post the thing u supposedly paid for...or get DraggeD under the Bridge ,as a Troll.
    ski paintingshttp://michael-cuozzo.fineartamerica.com" horror has a face; you must make a friend of horror...horror and moral terror.. are your friends...if not, they are enemies to be feared...the horror"....col Kurtz

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by baron View Post
    Looking like this is a obligatory blog by peoples involved w the program...or they would share info freely,hence my previous post's sarcasm .

    Go sell your worthless program elsewhere...ice therapy only works on a small percent of the public..its a DNA trait ,that allows it to work, in few cases...or the polar bear clubs would have a zillion members.

    Ice therapy is a proven way to heal injuries though....alternating ice/heat promotes cell regeneration , and helps blood flow ...I healed a 90%tore calf muscle / hamstring tear without hospital B S. There is old thread in medical section w picture- just about my whole leg was purple except the knee and foot. Heat pad/ice/ heat pad /ice/I lived w my leg wrapped in the heat pad almost 2 weeks..swappin ice on it, as much as I could...i'd rather break a bone>when a muscle goes pop, and it takes way longer to heal.

    Bust out some info for those who ask>u can PM them ,if you don't want to post the thing u supposedly paid for...or get DraggeD under the Bridge ,as a Troll.
    Is this ^^ directed at me? Re-read page one. Then read the whole thread. All of your questions have already been addressed.
    Last edited by gaijin; 01-22-2017 at 10:25 PM.

  5. #105
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    I'll chime in as another guy who got turned onto this regime by gaijin. (thanks gaijin... If you're ever in seattle, I'll buy you a meal.)

    Signed up on 4/15/16, took the course... still doing most of it (the cold and the breathing, at least). Changed my life. Started at 5'9", 202 pounds... total dad bod despite being a pescatarian. Never lost any weight, even when I tried to cut out beer, be more active, gym, hikes, etc. My weight loss kicked in around week 7 but I was feeling the effects on my headspace right around week one. Right now, I'm around 175 pounds and have stayed that way for months. My wife is now doing it, too.

    I'm not sure if it reset my metabolism or if it's all mental. I know I do less compulsive / stress eating after doing WH and on days when I don't do it, I definitely find myself more stressed, eating more, etc. Doing a bunch of pushups every day (part of the program) can't hurt, either.

    $200 bucks is a lot of money but it was seriously one of the best decisions I've ever made. And way cheaper than the Crossfit courses, etc that I've tried in the past but ultimately dropped out of. The fact that it's a one time fee and WH doesn't try to upsell you on anything is great, too.

    If you want to do the course for free, you could definitely get 90% of the whole thing just by doing some serious yoga, downloading the WH Innerfire app for the breating ($5) and doing the cold water stuff outlined here and on hundreds of YouTube videos. But for me personally, I probably would have dropped out if I tried that... Though Wim isn't a great instructor on all fronts, it helped to have a coursework to follow and to take baby steps along the way on the stretching, cold, etc.. But if you're on a serious budget, the knowledge is all out there for free. For me, though... it was money well spent and I'm glad to support Wim. Thanks again, gaijin

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by baron View Post
    Looking like this is a obligatory blog by peoples involved w the program...or they would share info freely,hence my previous post's sarcasm .

    Go sell your worthless program elsewhere...ice therapy only works on a small percent of the public..its a DNA trait ,that allows it to work, in few cases...or the polar bear clubs would have a zillion members.
    Well, it can ne just cold and not ice, shower and not soak.

    Fuck yourself with the usual TGR "I'm a big boy and can tell people off" stuff.

    Got it, bitch?
    George Carlin, “The planet is fine. The people are fucked.

  7. #107
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    Gaijin thx for this post. I agree with the person who said u really r a good and thoughtful writer.

    Day 4 report and questions for those like Charles who r sticking w program.

    30 breaths...it seems as if speed of cycle important and not a full inhale cycle. It seems as if win suggests focusing on inhale fully and not full exhale.

    I've also tried it focusing on exhaling fully. Which is it?

    Second question is it important to integrate push ups or yoga during breath hold at some point?

    Hoping to stick with it but not ready to pay $200 for someone who's been described as a poor teacher

    TIA!

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwoody808 View Post

    30 breaths...it seems as if speed of cycle important and not a full inhale cycle. It seems as if win suggests focusing on inhale fully and not full exhale.

    I've also tried it focusing on exhaling fully. Which is it?

    Second question is it important to integrate push ups or yoga during breath hold at some point?

    TIA!
    Also research Tummo breathing, as it's nearly the same thing.

    Full & fairly fast inhales and relaxed exhales. You're trying to saturate your body with O2 as much as possible... so gobble those inhales.

    I do generally do pushups after my 5th round. I exhale, hold, begin pushups, inhale around #45, hold, breathing normally around #55, then try to get to my max... which is 85. Sometimes I can only get 65.

    After that I begin my normal yoga/stretching/lifting routines while still breathing deeply and holding/exhaling on poses, etc.

  9. #109
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    This is legit! I've got a few friends from my mma gym that do the wim Hoff stuff along with cold plunges....all winter long! They swear by it

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaijin View Post
    Also research Tummo breathing, as it's nearly the same thing.

    Full & fairly fast inhales and relaxed exhales. You're trying to saturate your body with O2 as much as possible... so gobble those inhales.

    I do generally do pushups after my 5th round. I exhale, hold, begin pushups, inhale around #45, hold, breathing normally around #55, then try to get to my max... which is 85. Sometimes I can only get 65.

    After that I begin my normal yoga/stretching/lifting routines while still breathing deeply and holding/exhaling on poses, etc.
    Mahalo origato gracias.

  11. #111
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  12. #112
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    [physiologist]
    Regardless of whether the method creates change within your body, the basic science in the above video (and quoted in many other places) is incorrect.

    1. CO2 concentration is the main driver for breathing. When hyperventilating CO2 levels are indeed low which is the direct reason you can hold your breath longer.
    2. pH changes are due to the bicarbonate buffering system.
    HCO3+H <--> H2C03 <--> CO2 + H20

    When you blow off excess CO2, Bicarbonate (HC03) will bind with H+ (acid!) to resume balance in the equation.

    You can do more push-ups because you are further form the critical limit of acidity.

    3. At higher pH, blood has a great affinity for oxygen. This is helpful because the longs have a higher pH which means oxygen that you just breathed in wants to stick to the red blood cell (RBC). When that blood circulates to the working muscle it encounters a lower pH environment and the RBC has less affinity for oxygen which causes it to fall off and into the muscle. The process repeats. However, when you raise the pH of the entire body, the RBC retains its affinity for oxygen and is less likely to offload it (which is precisely why your oxygen saturation increases). It doesn't want to give the oxygen up to the tissue.

    4. Why do you think you get light headed with the breathing method?

    5. Lactate is NOT associated with increases in pH. The appearance of the hydrogen ion is from the cleavage of ATP, not the production of lactate.

    6. Increases in Lactate are NOT due to lack of oxygen at rest
    Lactate is the obligatory byproduct of glycolysis prior being converted into pyruvate and continuing into the krebs / TCA cycle. If you are burning carbohydrate, you are creating lactate.



    I enter the book on Page 43

    [/physiologist]

  13. #113
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    Interesting thread. A touring partner of mine recommended WH to me a couple of months ago. Not that I wasn't keeping my own but he got into this last year to help his running and said the breathing method worked wonders for him. I'll have to take the time to read through this whole thing and get a better sense of it. And no, he doesn't sell the system, just giving me a tip. From what I've found so far, sounds legit and worth exploring.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by XtrPickels View Post
    [physiologist]
    Regardless of whether the method creates change within your body, the basic science in the above video (and quoted in many other places) is incorrect.

    1. CO2 concentration is the main driver for breathing. When hyperventilating CO2 levels are indeed low which is the direct reason you can hold your breath longer.
    2. pH changes are due to the bicarbonate buffering system.
    HCO3+H <--> H2C03 <--> CO2 + H20

    When you blow off excess CO2, Bicarbonate (HC03) will bind with H+ (acid!) to resume balance in the equation.

    You can do more push-ups because you are further form the critical limit of acidity.

    3. At higher pH, blood has a great affinity for oxygen. This is helpful because the longs have a higher pH which means oxygen that you just breathed in wants to stick to the red blood cell (RBC). When that blood circulates to the working muscle it encounters a lower pH environment and the RBC has less affinity for oxygen which causes it to fall off and into the muscle. The process repeats. However, when you raise the pH of the entire body, the RBC retains its affinity for oxygen and is less likely to offload it (which is precisely why your oxygen saturation increases). It doesn't want to give the oxygen up to the tissue.

    4. Why do you think you get light headed with the breathing method?

    5. Lactate is NOT associated with increases in pH. The appearance of the hydrogen ion is from the cleavage of ATP, not the production of lactate.

    6. Increases in Lactate are NOT due to lack of oxygen at rest
    Lactate is the obligatory byproduct of glycolysis prior being converted into pyruvate and continuing into the krebs / TCA cycle. If you are burning carbohydrate, you are creating lactate.



    I enter the book on Page 43

    [/physiologist]
    Yo, this is an awesome contribution! Thank you!

    @GoldMember-- I'm a HS teacher and taught the breathing to a few track-and-field kids. One stuck with it 5x a week and says he loves it a year later. Then he won regionals.

    Furthermore, this download (which may require you to register to her site) is a 20-page outline of a lot of cold therapy. Super interesting to me is the documented application of cold to increase mitochondria production in endurance athletes... as well as the harm cold does to body builders. (fast twitch vs slow twitch.)

    This is also a rad find-- An Unexpected New Lung Function Has Been Found - They Make Blood

    *edited to add-- Rhonda Patrick's site (which may or may not require you to register for the .pdf above) is an amazing resource. She is legit and I posted her in here before. She dives deep.

  15. #115
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    symptoms

    Quote Originally Posted by gaijin View Post

    Did you ever get sick around week two/three? All members of a group of five I'm coaching all got the flu at week two. It was a textbook detox & immune system trigger for them.
    Hello gaijin

    a few questions about this point.

    I was never sick in over lets say 1.5 yrs.
    started doing the Wim Hof breathing and cold showers last Wednesday/Thursday
    got a sore throat basically at day 2, and since yesterday I got cold/flu like symptoms, basically everything but fever.
    I do kinda feel as if I had fever though.

    What kinda symptoms did the ppl in your group get?
    What kinda detox do you think it is?
    How long did it take them to feel better and did the symptoms ever come back?
    And how long is the duration of your showers?

    My longest was 3 minutes but I feel the water here is pretty damn cold.

    I did the cold shower this morning, won't do it tomorrow, I will go to the sauna/steam bath tomorrow though.

    I thought I will wait until I feel better and then give the showers another try, still doing the breathing though.
    And if I get the symptoms again after a few days then the cold showers might not be for me.

    Found your post through google and registered to ask you about it, I mean of course if you guys train together its not unusual that you all got the cold.

    But yea man cheers

  16. #116
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    Hof's training starts people at 10 seconds for their first week of cold showers. Then 30 seconds at week two. It's a slow build up. Maybe you went too hard, too early. It took me a few months to get to the point of no longer using warm water at all for a relief.

    My water today was 7degrees celsius out of the tap and I can see my breath after a few minutes in the shower. It gets down to 3 in February. That's fairly brutal and feels like needles. The difference between 7 and 3 feels bigger than it looks on paper. I don't time them, they're just standard showers. Maybe 8-10 minutes? Sometimes I'm strong and will just stand there, though, because it feels awesome.

    My group of five all got the flu. Body aches, stuffy nose, and a fever.

    I think the detox is from the breathing, saturating your mitochondria with O2 and "cleansing" them... for lack of a better word. That's Hof's theory, anyway. But the symptoms were generally mild and never came back for us. But it is really common for people who begin the breathing to get sick around week two. It's standard knowledge in Hof's training and his clients' facebook threads.

    I haven't been sick since and it's been about 18 months. I have successfully "breathed away" a few almost-colds, though. That's always wild. I'll feel it coming at some point in the day and then feel better after breathing. My Doctor clients through work with whom I'm good friends say I've mastered the self-placebo skill. Maybe?! I'll take it.

    And, we don't train together, per se. By "coaching", I mean explaining it and they go home and do it on their own.

    Just go at your own pace. Don't force anything with the cold. Cold water is brutal. But that's kind of why it's good for you.

  17. #117
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    Alright thanks gaijin.
    I feel better now, hope it stays that way.
    Read somewhere from a guy that he actually got more sick since doing the technique, especially the cold.

  18. #118
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    Pretty sure if there were any facts behind any of this we would have...facts (as in actual scientific evidence).

    Anything that relies on 'detox' immediately has me thinking it's bullshit, doubly so for something that 'saturates mitochondria' with oxygen.

    IME, if you are skeptical about these kinds of things you will find that the skepticism is well placed 99% of the time. Some people may believe it's good for you (and I guess claiming it is has made this Wim guy some money), but I have no idea after reading this why you would accept the hypothesis that cold water is good for you. Next week someone will probably be trying to make money off of a hot water program.

  19. #119
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    Did the cryo chamber thing this past weekend, going again today...don't know what it is but...

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki View Post
    Anything that relies on 'detox' immediately has me thinking it's bullshit, doubly so for something that 'saturates mitochondria' with oxygen.
    No doubt some of the explanations of the physiological mechanisms at play are pseudoscience at best or flat wrong at worst. The video posted upthread is pretty egregious as XtrPickles noted, and he didn't even point out all the inaccuracies. That said...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki View Post
    Some people may believe it's good for you (and I guess claiming it is has made this Wim guy some money), but I have no idea after reading this why you would accept the hypothesis that cold water is good for you.
    Come on man. Just about any acute physical stress is good for you, and it is not news that cold exposure produces physical benefits similar to exercise, such as improved insulin sensitivity (http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v21...s/nm.3891.html) and stimulation of brown fat growth (https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0623091949.htm). As a skier, the potential benefits of improved cold tolerance ought to be obvious.

    The breathing is legit. I've really only dabbled, but highly recommend it if you want to alter your mental state without exogenous substances. It can get very intense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki View Post
    Next week someone will probably be trying to make money off of a hot water program.
    That's called the hot tub/sauna/hot spring industry. "Passive heating" is good for you too: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cr...rcise-similar/
    Last edited by Dantheman; 04-17-2017 at 02:37 PM.

  21. #121
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    I share Dexter's skepticism about these kinds of things and generally don't have the time or interest to explore them. During the winter, when I'm tinkering with shit at night, I'll throw on a podcast and I found this interesting:

    http://www.artofmanliness.com/2017/0...cold-exposure/

  22. #122
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    dschane-- that ^^^ is a good read!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki View Post
    Pretty sure if there were any facts behind any of this we would have...facts (as in actual scientific evidence).

    Anything that relies on 'detox' immediately has me thinking it's bullshit, doubly so for something that 'saturates mitochondria' with oxygen.

    IME, if you are skeptical about these kinds of things you will find that the skepticism is well placed 99% of the time. Some people may believe it's good for you (and I guess claiming it is has made this Wim guy some money), but I have no idea after reading this why you would accept the hypothesis that cold water is good for you. Next week someone will probably be trying to make money off of a hot water program.
    Re-read post #114, then dig deep. Dr. Rhonda Patrick's 20-page article is a compilation of pretty much every piece of scientific evidence she could find.
    Last edited by gaijin; 04-18-2017 at 12:48 AM.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaijin View Post
    dschane-- that ^^^ is a good read!



    Re-read post #114, then dig deep. Dr. Rhonda Patrick's 20-page article is a compilation of pretty much every piece of scientific evidence she could find.
    I've been with the cold shower therapy for a year now. Have had three colds during the year--all related to the office, other people getting sick first and work stress. So, I really didn't do cold therapy for about a total of two weeks.

    I found the breathing during the showers helped generate heat, promoted circulation and also took my mind off the cold.

    I believe there are three simple training effects here.

    1) The cold water promotes heightened circulation, which is good for the body.

    2) The breathing produces both lung exercise and 3) oxygen defecit, each of which increase fitness through time.

    Finally, if you make it part of your daily practice, mine is with hatha yoga, it can be be like the Japanese misogi ritual, a daily purification.
    George Carlin, “The planet is fine. The people are fucked.

  24. #124
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    Long story short: I did cold showers for about 2.5 months last summer. Started as a 30-day challenge and kept going. Was actually starting to really dig it, then hurt my shoulder and lost the drive. Picked them back up in March when the weather got unseasonably warm, was hooked again within two weeks and haven't looked back. I've been working into some colder water the last two weeks, and yesterday I pedaled my bike to a creek that is currently almost pure snowmelt. I didn't have a thermometer with me, but I'd be surprised if the water was more than 40F/4C. Sat neck-deep for 10 minutes, got out when I started to get a bit of a shiver on, felt fully recovered within two minutes, got back in and lasted another 20 minutes before I started to feel uncomfortable. There were some moments of incredible calmness. Feeling completely relaxed in that setting is an intense experience. A lot of that second period was spent eyes closed, holding a semi-fetal position to reduce jostling from the current, and basically meditating. I was pretty surprised at just how much time had passed.

    Going to be very interesting to see if I can keep this going into winter. Cold water is a lot more appealing when it's 100+.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    ... Cold water is a lot more appealing when it's 100+.
    Ain't that the truth!
    George Carlin, “The planet is fine. The people are fucked.

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