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  1. #26
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    The Wim Hof Method: Physical training that changed my life.

    Quote Originally Posted by gaijin View Post
    Thats a definite, positive take-away. But just because it's easy to see immediate benefits, understand your body takes time to evolve to long-term changes. Don't stop, mate. It's a skill that can be developed in the long-game
    Oh I'm not quitting. I'm in 100%. I was only stating that even a little bit is motivating, and the positive effects are far reaching and start right away. I can't wait to get even where you are and beyond. I hope to be posting a very positive motivating TR in the future of my personal journey. Thanks again for bringing out to me. I'm in debited to you and Wil Hof.
    Man, It was great...

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by NW_SKIER View Post
    I'm interested in this for my poor circulation and random numbness in my left hand from old injuries but weight loss keeps coming up. What if I'm already at a healthy weight? I'm 5'10" 160. I don't want to lose any more.
    That is a healthy weight. I don't have enough experience to say, but I'd bet you'll just eat more, your appetite might go through the roof. So long as you don't fill the void with crap/non-food, have at it. It's not just calorie consumption, but white to brown fat transfer. I, too, can't really lose anymore weight and am considering protein shake supplements. I just don't want the muscle mass I gained in my last life.

    FWIW, Wim eats once a day, and only after 6pm. Many call it Intermittent Fasting-- eating all your daily food within an 8-hr window. Those hours each day of feeling hungry are good for you, teach your body to appreciate the calories it gets. I'm not there yet. I still eat 2-3 meals a day. I'm always hungry and I'm prescribing to the one-vice-at-a-time battle. I do plan in the future to try, though. I have heard many elders speak of dietary shifts as they got older. General McCarthy is another one-meal-a-day advocate. Listen to the elders who are fit.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2stix View Post
    Oh I'm not quitting. I'm in 100%. I was only stating that even a little bit is motivating, and the positive effects are far reaching and start right away.
    It is ridiculous how good it can feel on day one. Like-- "How did I not know this?" My wife straight-up passed out on the floor. "How do you sit in a chair and do this?", she asked.

    Last winter I used to lean on the safety bar on the chair-ride up... and just breathe into the buzzing sound. Riding those chairs is when I noticed my hands would warm up. I remember thinking-- "Nobody will believe me."

  3. #28
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    Thanks gaijin. I'm excited to give it a try. Going to try the breathing exercise tomorrow afternoon. Looking at ice makers online.

  4. #29
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    Curious to hear more about this stuff. The mental-physiological aspect is pretty intriguing. I'd certainly read about Wim Hof and his crazy records, but hadn't really looked into his training methods much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest_Hemingway View Post
    I realize there is not much hope for a bullfighting forum. I understand that most of you would prefer to discuss the ingredients of jacket fabrics than the ingredients of a brave man. I know nothing of the former. But the latter is made of courage, and skill, and grace in the presence of the possibility of death. If someone could make a jacket of those three things it would no doubt be the most popular and prized item in all of your closets.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by LightRanger View Post
    Curious to hear more about this stuff. The mental-physiological aspect is pretty intriguing. I'd certainly read about Wim Hof and his crazy records, but hadn't really looked into his training methods much.
    Wim's wife committed suicide leaving him alone to raise his boys decades ago. He found relief in cold water immersion, under the ice. He's spoken quite openly about that battle and I commend him for doing so. It shows the control relationship between mental and physical health.

    There is a brutality to cold water that still pulls me to this training.
    - The results are immediate, sometimes before I even enter. Prep is the real deal.
    - When I'm weak, I am forced to slow down. I run out of time in the morning before work. I know my weakness is my lack of prep.
    - I can get out when it becomes unbearable. At that moment, it's really easy to understand my limit, and how it feels.
    - There is no thinking of anything else other than that one battle of not dying. I can mimic drowning, after all, and reap the benefits of putting my body into that survival mode. My body doesn't know it's a simulation. I can simultaneously control my shock, breathe with control, yet send my body into an utter panic.

    Here's more truth-- many people say they can't afford the course yet don't understand that I had to spend triple that on new clothes upon completing it.

  6. #31
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    Thanks again. I think I'll give it a whirl.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaijin View Post
    I can mimic drowning, after all, and reap the benefits of putting my body into that survival mode. My body doesn't know it's a simulation.
    .
    you are a sick fuck



    also all this talk about how you feel, what about looks?

    vanity, man
    Zone Controller

    "He wants to be a pro, bro, not some schmuck." - Hugh Conway

    "DigitalDeath would kick my ass. He has the reach of a polar bear." - Crass3000

  8. #33
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    New slogan for Wim: If a hipster waif Vice reporter can do it, anyone can!

  9. #34
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    I haven't read much into this beyond your initial post but I'm intrigued. Is the main benefit of the cold water the stimulation of the vagal nerve through the mechanism of the mammalian diving reflex? Or is it more whole body system?

  10. #35
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    I think I'll wait for the David Hasselhoff method.

  11. #36
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    Any major topics in the official course that aren't in this summary? Think this summary and YouTube vids on breathing are enough to give it a try? http://highexistence.com/the-wim-hof...immune-system/

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by markb View Post
    Any major topics in the official course that aren't in this summary? Think this summary and YouTube vids on breathing are enough to give it a try? http://highexistence.com/the-wim-hof...immune-system/
    I'm confused about the breathing technique.
    In your link above, the out breath is forceful - "blowing up a balloon". Same with a couple other websites/articles summarizing the method.

    In the original post's video with Wim Hof & Joe Rogan , Wim directly instructing Rogan as he does the breathing exercise, Wim is telling Rogan to breathe in deep and just let the air out - no force on the exhale. Far from blowing up a balloon. Which is it?

  13. #38
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    Tried out the breathing exercise after 5x5minute rounds on the heavy bag. Took me about 10 breaths to find my rhythm. The 10 minutes I sat there after completing three cycles of breaths felt amazing! Almost trance-like. I was in the zone.

    Took a lukewarm shower and finished it with cold only on my legs, hands, and feet. Can't wait to go again tomorrow.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    While I have zero interest in joining some program... or watching some hour long video... there are a LOT of really successful people who are way into meditation these days. Some kind of keep it on the downlow to a certain degree. And I can see the ice baths angle as well. I know this is a stupid simple take on it, but anyone who has done a cold water / ice water jump knows that feeling it gives you (or frankly, swimming in the ocean or lake tahoe, etc.). I know when I'm in the heart of mountain-bike season I start taking cold showers not just to cool down but it kind of fires me up in a weird way. Maybe related, maybe not. Just spit-balling.

    Whatever works for you, that's what counts.
    Keep on spit-balling. Frankly, I think you are already in a place to take meditation and cold seriously. You already know cold showers fire you up.

    Headspace and Calm are two apps that are popular for guided meditation. I count breaths but am trying to further to stop thinking by isolating my amygdala by not counting, and instead using my thumb to "count" the inside knuckles of the other 4 fingers = 16. Back and forth = 32 breaths. But, I get lost and lose track and space out. It's hard to balance breathing exercises and amygdala focus. Perhaps I'm trying too hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
    I haven't read much into this beyond your initial post but I'm intrigued. Is the main benefit of the cold water the stimulation of the vagal nerve through the mechanism of the mammalian diving reflex? Or is it more whole body system?
    The cold water is a whole body practice, aimed at the circulatory system. Frankly, Hof himself tells rookies to keep the cold off the head (yet he himself is fond of diving under ice.) The capillaries in the scalp are really sensitive and it gets a bit fierce. But I do like getting my head under the shower. I never hold my breath and dunk my head in a bath. I've passed out while breathing/holding. Holding my breath under water is a genuine danger in my opinion. Perhaps I'm still weak... but nope, not playing that game.

    Dunking your limbs in ice water will close your vessels as your body tries to keep the vital organs supplied with blood. Once those vessels hit 7*C, they open up again to get blood and warm up. You can feel that blood rush. That rush signifies a complete cycle and you're done. It takes only a few minutes. Basically, when the pain stops, you've completed a workout.

    The Vagus nerve is something I know exists on paper, but don't feel comfortable claiming is something I can feel or understandably direct-- although I do consciously focus on my system simply because the cold is hard.

    I don't really know what this meditation is, or how to turn it like a switch, as it appears Wim can do. But I very often feel what I can only call heat, vibration. There is ringing in the ears, numbness in random places, and a heat at times when I'm in cold water. No joke, I've heard other people also think their faucets were broken, or the water temp changed because it's such a strange sensation. But I'm pretty sure this is why cultures have built religions around the practice. It's nuts.

    Quote Originally Posted by markb View Post
    Any major topics in the official course that aren't in this summary? Think this summary and YouTube vids on breathing are enough to give it a try? http://highexistence.com/the-wim-hof...immune-system/
    The biggest issue I take with that link is what TG brought up below... balloon... (read below)

    But yes, there are other topics that come up in the course, like brown fat activation, some other yoga. A huge part of the course is the Facebook group. Those members themselves are constantly bringing their findings to discussion (although much of that is pseudo.)

    Truthfully, I find the amount of info out there to be pretty overwhelming. 99% of the game is starting, committing, and then learning your own body sensations before fretting scientific details that won't make any sense anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by TG View Post
    I'm confused about the breathing technique.
    In your link above, the out breath is forceful - "blowing up a balloon". Same with a couple other websites/articles summarizing the method.

    In the original post's video with Wim Hof & Joe Rogan , Wim directly instructing Rogan as he does the breathing exercise, Wim is telling Rogan to breathe in deep and just let the air out - no force on the exhale. Far from blowing up a balloon. Which is it?
    I think this varies with people as it varies with skill and muscle development. Laird has some hefty lung power. Rookies don't. Rookies like me don't push air out, we just relax as directed by Wim. Since I have developed more strength, I do find my exhales more forceful now and often have to tell myself to chill out.

    I have some teenagers I've been instructing and some of them have never lifted an active bone in their body. They are super shallow breathers that can get their bodies tingling with what seems like almost no effort to their breathing cycles. This is partially where the long-term commitment comes in-- you have to find your pace, do it everyday, and learn what it feels like. It's an arduously slow process even though it's super easy to feel sensations from day one. The one goal to focus on is O2 in.

    Quote Originally Posted by NW_SKIER View Post
    Tried out the breathing exercise after 5x5minute rounds on the heavy bag. Took me about 10 breaths to find my rhythm. The 10 minutes I sat there after completing three cycles of breaths felt amazing! Almost trance-like. I was in the zone.

    Took a lukewarm shower and finished it with cold only on my legs, hands, and feet. Can't wait to go again tomorrow.
    I'm stoked to read this, mate. The breathing and cold have had such a profound impact on me that I kind of get gushy when I learn people I've advised don't blow it off.

    Back to the teenagers I've instructed-- some are still practicing 4 months down the road now. Their track and field coach even noticed a change in their times, training, attitudes, and stress management. When I see them and ask them if they're still breathing, their faces light up with smiles and answer with a big "Yes! Everyday before I run in the morning." I'm floored. That's some discipline for 17yo's. Something is right when teenagers don't shrug you off. The other 90% shrug me off from the beginning, as they do all advice.
    Last edited by gaijin; 04-21-2016 at 04:17 AM.

  15. #40
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    Signed up last night and FYI the $200 training is now $129 until April 30th if you type in code happy35

  16. #41
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    Awesome news, Evil E. Let us know your first impressions and how you go.

    Just an FYI previously mentioned... many people go through a detox of sorts with the O2 saturation in the first 2 or so weeks. I had an eczema flare up. People have reported colds, etcetera. If you get sick, take it as gently as you need, and then build up again.

  17. #42
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    I'm 12 days into the breathing thing, and 5 days of cold showers. I'm doing the cheapskate free trial, based on instructions at the highexistence site (I read and bookmarked it months ago, but this thread got me off my ass to actually start it).

    All good so far! The showers are interesting. I'm getting a "second wind" a couple minutes into it, where I start to feel like I can do it for a while longer (sure, why not do a shampoo while I'm in here). And after getting out, I'm definitely in a "can do" state of mind for a good while afterwards.

    Granted, I've always been game for a quick swim in ice-cold Sierra waters during spring melt-off.

  18. #43
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    I am very close to pulling the trigger on the 10 week course. This thread was the second time in a week where someone has brought up win and the benefits. I generally avoid programs like this based on my own bias that they are all scams. I haven't been able to find many complaints and quite a bit of praise. I have another day to decide and get the 35% discount.

    What draws me to this is the reduction of inflammation and improved breathing. I have churg-Strauss syndrome which is an immune system disorder that has inflammation and asthma as the major symptoms. I've recently been trying to focus on proper breathing. It seems like this program could help, even if it's just the breathing. I have to look at the thermostatic valves in the shower to see if I can get cold water. I can't remember if they have a restricted range or if I just set the low end at 75. No tub in the house but I do have an outdoor shower if the valves can't adjust lower.

    Sorry for the blog, anyone with immune system issues have positive feedback to share?

  19. #44
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    I've watched some of the videos and stuff, but I have a serious question:

    What usefulness is this to a healthy, relatively-fit skier trying to improve his fitness for alpine skiing, ski mountaineering, climbing, etc? Let's say I believe the Wim Hof method can improve one's ability to control/influence the autonomic nervous system & immune system, resistance to cold, etc. The thing is, Wim's feats/records don't interest me: I don't care about being able to swim under ice or climb mountains wearing only running shorts or run a marathon without water. I'm WAY more interested in Kilian Jornet's feats...and by extension, his training. So what is the practical application to a power-endurance sport like backcountry skiing, ski mountaineering, alpine climbing, etc. Will my V02 max improve? Will my long-term strength gains improve (and I'm not talking about right after meditation/02 saturation)? Will they improve more than they would if I spend that same amount of time in the gym lifting or doing Zone 1 cardio?

    Obviously, following the Wim Hof method will take time and energy, and I'm having trouble justifying that investment over spending additional time in the gym/mountains following a progressive, periodic training program like the one outlines in the Johnson-House text.

    Edit: and for the record, I'm acutely aware that the mental aspect to climbing is as (or more) important than the physical. But I'm wondering how the mental benefits of the Wim Hof method compares to something like The Rock Warrior's Way, which as kind of been the gold-standard for mental training for climbing, IMO.
    Last edited by auvgeek; 04-29-2016 at 11:02 AM.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

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  20. #45
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    My take on it is that it's yet another aspect of the general Mindfulness field, which is cool stuff to explore, and can be good for you in a number of different ways, physically and mentally. Anyway, so far it's a positive experience with an only modest time investment. And I'm going to have to leave it at that, as I'm only 2 weeks or so into an informal exploration of this, myself. Will be interested in gaijin's response.

    That, and better cold tolerance wouldn't be such a bad thing for someone like me who skis, likes rainy-season kayaking, and spends lots of nights in the outdoors.

    No, of course, I wouldn't expect V02max to improve, unless someone wasn't breathing fully to begin with. It should go without saying that if you're doing serious 10K training your time would be better spent reading Jack Daniels and doing intervals, if you're doing serious climbing training your time is better spent with a climbing-specific program, if you're studying for a professional exam your time is better spent on the relevant study program, etc etc. So if you want to make the point that Wim Hof isn't the most absolutely essential thing there is, well, yeah.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flounder View Post
    ...anyone with immune system issues have positive feedback to share?
    I have asthma. I currently use my inhaler 1-2 times a week. Before the course I was using it 1-2 times a day. Throughout my life my use has been highly influenced by whether or not I am routinely active with cardio exercise, like running or hiking. My current status of not needing my inhalers much is definitely the most fit I've ever been, but I don't know why that is. I/We don't understand the science enough to make any claims. And I don't want anyone thinking that breath exercise and cold water are the cure-all for auto-immune illnesses.

    All I can say for certain, and with conviction, is that I feel the best of my life. But I can't tell you why.

    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post
    What usefulness is this to a healthy, relatively-fit skier trying to improve his fitness for alpine skiing, ski mountaineering, climbing, etc?
    Wim's course taught me two major things--

    1) A way to breathe. I never even thought to breathe first, then exert energy. I always added external forces (like hiking fast) as the primary way of exercising my cardiovascular system... thus breathing hard was simply a side-effect. But as Laird states: "It makes you wonder what working out really is." Your mitochondria don't know why you're breathing hard and flooding your system with O2... they are just trying to keep up with the processes. With this type of discipline I can sit down for 30 minutes and exhaust myself. And, I can translate those breathing rhythms into my cardio work, and not feel as exhausted.

    The little 30-40 breaths with retention that you see in videos all over the net are just stationary exercises. But that rhythm comes out (as dictated by me) every time I exert myself. When Wim & crew are climbing mountains in the cold, and in fast times, they don't stop breathing like that. They are saturating and exerting for hours.

    2-- The course's gradual adaptation to cold water (along with breathing) taught me another way to train my cardiovascular system away from weights or other external stresses. It opened up my capillaries. It re-kindled my metabolism. It made me more aware of my blood flow... an element of my existence I honestly never really even gave a second thought.

    Training internal function is what the entire program is all about. None of it is meant to replace any other regiment. Although, you may dismiss some. I felt my muscles get harder, frankly. Perhaps it's all the stationary flexing in the cold. ;-) Maybe it's just the loss of fat.

    Cold and O2 are such powerful forces that I have trouble coming up any athletic pursuit that would deem training those forces a waste of time as it's just so easy to implement these factors into any lifestyle.

    Step one- breathe a shit-fuck ton more than you do now. This takes very little time in the end.
    Step two- turn off your hot-water heater. This, too, takes very little time in the end.

  22. #47
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    I've heard about Wim and recently I did my first cold shower. I do the breathing exercise until I feel numb and tingly, and it takes a few seconds after I stop for the tingles to slowly dissipate. It's interesting.
    I haven't paid for the course. Can you explain your prep before the shower and technique during the shower? Just do the 30-40 breaths and get in, and continue breathing? It's hard to breathe in the cold! I find cold pools way more relaxing since it's full immersion, cold water only on part of your body feels not so good.

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  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two06 View Post
    I've heard about Wim and recently I did my first cold shower. I do the breathing exercise until I feel numb and tingly, and it takes a few seconds after I stop for the tingles to slowly dissipate. It's interesting.
    I haven't paid for the course. Can you explain your prep before the shower and technique during the shower? Just do the 30-40 breaths and get in, and continue breathing? It's hard to breathe in the cold! I find cold pools way more relaxing since it's full immersion, cold water only on part of your body feels not so good.
    Awesome to hear you're experimenting! Don't stop.

    Basically, yes-- lots of O2 loading breathing, then into the cold and keep breathing.

    But if you haven't read the beginning of this thread, you're likely missing out on the transition to daily cold showers.

    The truth is that cold water is a process. Anyone can grit and bear their own level of torture, but it's not about that. It's about slowly transitioning your body to the point that entering cold water isn't a shock. It's a process of conditioning your body to expect it and be prepared for it.

    My daily routine has shifted over time, but it's currently really easy. I just take a walk around the block outside to connect with nature's elements, then go inside. Turn on the cold water at my feet. Breathe for 30 seconds. In-- hold-- rotate-- and I'm wet. After I'm fully wet I feel rad and enjoy it. It's only a few seconds of getting used to it. My body has learned what's coming and I can cue the prep by breathing. If I just jump in, I get a shock I have to adapt to. And that sucks.

    Truth is, there is always a few moments of "Damnit, here we go again... Can I do this today?" before getting in. And more truth is my routine isn't going to help you, per se, if not just give you an example of how one person does it.

    Be patient. Your body takes time to adapt to the elements. But it does adapt.

  25. #50
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    that dude's AMA on Reddit yesterday was somewhere between hilarious and disappointing. interesting nonetheless.
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