Saile (Nockspitze) - NW Couloir / Austria

[Valyo]

It's the best conditions Tirol has seen this winter. Finally there's enough snow to go for some lines and the snowpack is stable. The top was a bit tricky to negotiate with rocks under the snow but 20 meters down it became a dream run. The couloir is near the Axamer Lizum resort and the mountains around remind you of the Dolomites - big walls, big couloirs. The best day of the season and one of my best runs in quite a while. With borrowed Rossi Squad 7's from my good friend, after my binding broke

[powdork]

That is the sharpest, clearest POV video I've ever seen. And the way it handled exposure was awesome too. Hero4 or something else?

Nice line too.

[klar]

I know a lot of the usual lines in that general zone got skied recently and I understand the appeal and that's a nice video. but just in case you haven't seen it, this (foto , foto2) happened yesterday afternoon, third person to climb/ski it triggered it. I'm guessing your party skied this a few days ago (you are dimitar's friends?) so just a fyi. (here's an accident account in german by the person that was caught)

[freak]

the snowpack is not exactly stable at the moment. avy danger is at 3 above 2400m south of the inn for a reason. i know nockspitze is only 2400, it still wouldnt occur to me to ski any of those lines atm.

freak~[&]

[clubhousebmx]

That video was awesome. But wow those pictures are spooky, not where I'd want to see an avi break loose while I was climbing, did they survive?

[klar]

yes, the person is fine. in that german link he self reflects about why he went up it despite knowing there was an issue with a persistent weak layer, answer is there were tracks and a bunch of similar stuff got skied without issue. this is a super frequented area that a lot of people spend a lot of time in, myself included in any other season. it looks real good these days and it's been hard staying away / i can understand why people don't.

[gimpy]

I'm guessing that the wall to wall skinner going up it in klars pics doesn't help with the stability.
Cool vid
Thanx for sharing!

[rod9301]

Still, great way to ski the couloir at speed.

[Valyo]

powdork, yeah it's a gopro 4 silver.
As for the couloir that slid, not judging anyone, I think the main thing is the guy skinned up it at 16.50 in the afternoon. 2 of my friends skied it in the morning around 9.30. My binding broke so I stayed behind and just hiked to the bottom of the couloir for a couple of turns. They went down from the rock where the avalanche started, didn't go to the top cuz it looked windblown. Apparently there's been another group in between because there is a skin track going all the way up. So I think it's a combination of the late hour, after the sun and the temps had baked the snowpack for the entire day, and being loaded by several groups of people already, the weak layer just gave away.
The avi conditions aren't perfect at all and the old layer is still all over the place, but I think it's the most stable it's been this season and in that day you had some hours to take advantage of it. That's just my opinion and it's how it felt back then.
Thanks for the info! Glad you guys like the video.

[klar]

So I think it's a combination of the late hour, after the sun and the temps had baked the snowpack for the entire day, and being loaded by several groups of people already, the weak layer just gave away.

I don't totally agree with that assessment but I'm glad you had a few good days. we all have different ideas about snow and risk and luck and all that stuff. happy turns & I hope we all get some more like the ones you had off nockspitze!


PS: assessment by avalanche service

[freak]

As for the couloir that slid, not judging anyone, I think the main thing is the guy skinned up it at 16.50 in the afternoon. 2 of my friends skied it in the morning around 9.30. My binding broke so I stayed behind and just hiked to the bottom of the couloir for a couple of turns. They went down from the rock where the avalanche started, didn't go to the top cuz it looked windblown. Apparently there's been another group in between because there is a skin track going all the way up.

how would the timing have changed anything, stability wise? this chute is basically completely in the shade, only the top gets a little bit of sun at the moment. i hope you realize it was just luck that your friends (or the group who skied after them) did not trigger the slide, the person who did was just less lucky.

So I think it's a combination of the late hour, after the sun and the temps had baked the snowpack for the entire day, and being loaded by several groups of people already, the weak layer just gave away.

i dont think so. there is not enough sun in the chute and it is/has been to cold to bake the snow. the fact that several people skied the couloir obviously doenst make it less safe. the guy who triggered the slide most likely hit a hotspot (skied closer to the walls or a covered rock, where the snow covering the depth hoar is thinner, happens there once in a while). the people who skied it before just had more luck.

sorry if i come across as bitchy here, mainly i just disagreed with the statement of stable snowpack in the first post. imho the snowpack is rather shitty south of the river. just because it doest slide all the time anymore doenst mean it wont (as proven by many avalanches during the last days)...

fortunately we live in a free country where everyone can decide on how much risk he is going to take, but the risk you are accepting is pretty high, just saying.

freak~[&]

[Valyo]

It's ok guys, I appreciate all the info and your point of view completely, you have more local knowledge than me about the area, and yeah probably the statement ''stable'' is a bit misjudging. As I said it's just my opinion and how it felt that day. The timing in my view is crucial and has always been in the mountains and it's a pretty general rule to go early in my experience. And yes, luck or bad luck is always there.. Hope you all have a safe season with more great days in the mountains around here! Some of us have to leave soon unfortunately..

[gimpy]

Props to ya for not getting bent at the armchair quarterbacking going on here

+++

[subtle plague]

I think klars and freaks armchair is probably located at a equally fun mountain face right in the area. Just not with that much hidden danger.

[klar]

armchair quarterbacking

yeah, well. I'm sorry if it sounded judgy and I took the pictures out so they don't distract from legit stoke as much as they maybe did. I'm not going to apologize for bringing it up. everyone involved spends a lot of time in that zone and we've all skied those lines plenty of times. Having one of them go in the way that it did was a bit of a wake up call for me with the current snow situation we're having (and the stuff that's been getting skied successfully) and it is something I would absolutely want to know, so I wanted to let the OP know, seeing as he and his crew were up there.

Some of us have to leave soon unfortunately..

Where are you leaving to? I hear it's snowing in Pririn. After April in January I feel we're all due for some February in April.

[ClarkleberryFinn]

Looks great, but as someone else who spends quite a bit of time skiing that area, stable is NOT the word I'd use the describe the snow atm.

Pretty much this whole season (and last season for that matter) the snow has been persistently sketchy. I can't remember the last time I got home from skiing on a weekend to not hear about an avalanche incident - seems to be literally every weekend the past couple of months.

Has anyone been in Serles lately? Another really cool line, and not as steep.

[Valyo]

Ok, I'm getting a bit tired of explaining myself over and over again. Did you read my comments at all? Maybe If I delete the "stable" part in my post everyone will be happy?

[ClarkleberryFinn]

Yep, and probably.

I'm not judging your decisions and thought processes. You've got the right to ski what you want, and you're clearly thinking before skiing and actually making decisions, rather than just going. And you scored a great line with great snow!

I'm just frustrated and saddened by the amount of accidents lately, including several totally avoidable incidents where (other) people clearly weren't thinking at all and/or hadn't at least read the avi report and blog. I.e. http://lawinenwarndienst.blogspot.co...enunfalls.html

[keksie]

powdork, yeah it's a gopro 4 silver.
As for the couloir that slid, not judging anyone, I think the main thing is the guy skinned up it at 16.50 in the afternoon. 2 of my friends skied it in the morning around 9.30. My binding broke so I stayed behind and just hiked to the bottom of the couloir for a couple of turns. They went down from the rock where the avalanche started, didn't go to the top cuz it looked windblown. Apparently there's been another group in between because there is a skin track going all the way up. So I think it's a combination of the late hour, after the sun and the temps had baked the snowpack for the entire day, and being loaded by several groups of people already, the weak layer just gave away.
The avi conditions aren't perfect at all and the old layer is still all over the place, but I think it's the most stable it's been this season and in that day you had some hours to take advantage of it. That's just my opinion and it's how it felt back then.
Thanks for the info! Glad you guys like the video.

I've also skied that line a few times and know that area somewhat well. We also skied the Nockspitze NNE chute+bowl couple days after your Nockspitze trip. Anyway it seems like you put some thought into your decision to ski that and as klar said earlier we all have different risk levels so I don't want to argue with that.

However I disagree with your assessment about the reason why it slid in the evening. This line is about as much in the shade as it is possible. In no way does it get "baked". Temperatures would also have played an extremely minimal role on that day. For the purposes of a risk assessment the conditions in the morning and in the afternoon were in my opinion essentially the same (or the differences were very small, impossible for a human mind to take into account). In my opinion the fact that it slid when it did was just good luck for you and bad luck for the other guy (lucky for him to not get killed though).

I've had many occasions where I first thought I made a good risk assessment on a given line.. but after actually skiing it (skiing-wise often in most amazing conditions) I have then realized that although nothing slid I still had underestimated the risk. Usually this is because of not reading the conditions correctly (snow more baked than expected, more windloading than expected, persistent weak layer more dangerous than expected etc). In the end even though the outcome was happy, my risk margin had been exceeded and therefore the original decision to ski that line had been wrong. Not saying that this is the case here, but it's worth considering whether you were within your personal acceptable risk or not so that you can choose to either continue with your current decision making process or adjust it based on what you think.

[Valyo]

keksie were you up in the area that day? Because the snow had changed quite a lot by the time we got back in the car on all aspects by the early afternoon. At the morning it was the driest powder on top, by the afternoon it had settled noticeably and was starting to even get crusty at some spots even at the same north-west facing shady slopes. The temps went from -11 in the morning to somewhere around -2 in the afternoon at the HoadlHaus. To assume that the conditions in the morning and the late afternoon had nothing to do with the snowpack stability is absurd in my opinion. Especially in mid March. I don't want to argue anymore. As we all said and share this view - everyone has a different idea of snow assessment, risk and all that stuff. For me the risk felt manageable that day, at the time I was there. Of course I could be wrong and just lucky Have a safe and great end of the season everybody!

[Mike Pow]

Well played.

That is all.