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  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by farmer View Post
    all for something that the overwhelming majority of the population doesn't need?
    Same argument could be applied to the braille loo signage and accessibility ramps?
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  2. #227
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    Or people can chill the fuck out...

  3. #228
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    Oh, SNAP!

    Do you even PC bro?

    (ducks)
    I still call it The Jake.

  4. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    Same argument could be applied to the braille loo signage and accessibility ramps?
    Accept that those are for people that have disabilities not different lifestyle choices. Not sure transgender would qualify . As someone mentioned maybe you that this was a jerk trying to stir up the pot and succeeded.
    License to kill gophers by the government of the United Nations

  5. #230
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    You urban folk sure have it complicated. Never seems to be any issue swimming in rivers and lakes, or in the co-ed washroom facilities in the work/logging camps I've been in (common sink area, individual shower and toilet stalls). And yes, even in these environments I've encountered people of all persuasions. Vast majority are discreet; only one issue I can recall in a work camp (hetero-creepo peeping on a female), and that individual was thoroughly educated behind the rec trailer later that evening. No further issues in that case.

  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    Same argument could be applied to the braille loo signage and accessibility ramps?
    Are you trying to say transgendered people are disabled?

    In all seriousness, braille signs on the door of a head add almost nothing to the overall cost of building / operating a business. Wheelchair ramps cost a little more, but still probably less than a percent of the overall construction cost, and again almost nothing in ongoing maintenance.

    Increasing the locker room size by 50% (more if you want fancy individual stalls, and not just a row of lockers and bradleys) is a significant cost. Again, who pays for it?

    Right now, businesses are free to put in a third bathroom / locker room if they choose. Some (not all) pools already do (ie family change rooms). I say leave it to the free market. People use whatever locker room matches what is swinging between their legs, and if something different has a legitimate need, it will be created or they will lose transgendered customers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke
    Cell phones are great in the backcountry. If you're injured, you can use them to play Tetris, which helps pass the time while waiting for cold embrace of Death to envelop you.

  7. #232
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    ^^^
    It's actually not that different in urban areas.

    Detroit pools basically have a tarp and a garden hose that everyone uses as a locker room. Gang beatings too - not unlike your story.
    I still call it The Jake.

  8. #233
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    so speaking of bathrooms-
    this past year we have had a big influx of asian tourists and this summer there was a lot of problems with the bathrooms- many of the asian folks believing that they are to squat over the toilet (like their holes in the floor back home that serve as toilettes) So they put up these funny signs

  9. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by farmer View Post
    braille signs on the door of a head add almost nothing to the overall cost of building / operating a business. Wheelchair ramps cost a little more, but still probably less than a percent of the overall construction cost, and again almost nothing in ongoing maintenance.
    as an example, city of portland requires a 25% of construction cost in alterations of older commercial properties to bring the building up to current accessibility standards

    ramps & elevators aren't cheap -- ramps take up a shitload of space; elevators are a high cost item w/ continuing maintenance


    i don't think one can argue for ADA being affordable, but it is gender balanced

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ski to Be View Post
    Accept that those are for people that have disabilities
    Still they're a tiny minority.. that was his point how much the accommodation was costing per capita.

    not different lifestyle choices. Not sure transgender would qualify
    So it's OK for Bellevue club to ban .... Catholics then?

    Because 'choice' of religion is far more a 'choice' than genital swap surgery?

    As someone mentioned maybe you
    Yep it was me.

    that this was a jerk trying to stir up the pot and succeeded.
    Yep he was probably someone with similar views to Farmer
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtngirl79 View Post
    So was anyone actually harmed in the board shorts incident?
    Yes. Transgender people who the law was meant to help assimilate.
    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


    Kindness is a bridge between all people

    Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism

  12. #237
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    No, I don't think I would call Bob schwanky. I would call the BC schwanky, though.

  13. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronWright View Post
    Most of you post is great and rational, shows empathy, but you wouldn't drag a guy by his dick out of a locker room. You would probably say "what are you doing in here" and call some authority.
    Thanks for saying I showed empathy, I don't hear that very often. As for the last part of your statement, you clearly don't know me very well. For the record, I never said "dick", just whatever was available. But if it's out it's fair game, kind of like the "hair rule" in the NFL.

    If lawmakers and the assholes who like to test them exhibited more common sense in their daily activities, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

  14. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    Yes. Transgender people who the law was meant to help assimilate.
    That was kinda my point. None of the women (Cis or trans) that were in the dressing room were harmed.

    Would been better if the news ignored it..

  15. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tippster View Post
    a common locker room with private individual changing areas and unisex single bathrooms/showers.
    That's how my local rec center does it.


    I don't get why being naked is viewed as such a huge taboo, not that I'm a nudist or anything.
    ::.:..::::.::.:.::..::.

  16. #241
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    If society is going to take on these new norms, why would we continue to assume that old style buildings will suffice.

    Seattle is going to need to build out private changing rooms.

  17. #242
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    Clearly it's a conspiracy by the local contractors Union. Think of the sea of retrofits.
    I still call it The Jake.

  18. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtngirl79 View Post
    I'm not completely against it. That's what I said.

    He's talking out his ass from his bs puritan stance... in general, women are far more often self conscious about their bodies than not, and women are often extremely cruel to each other.

    From what I have heard, men are less cruel and less self consious...
    puritanical lol.

    So from what you've heard you're making a value judgement?
    I'm certain I have more close women friends than you and yes we're mature enough to talk about adult topics and sometimes we even go to the gym together....GASP!!!!

  19. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtngirl79 View Post
    What did I say in the beginning? If at a casual glance, ypu look male, use the men's room. If female, use the womens.

    If your genitalia doesn't match, be discreet.

    If someone makes you uncomfortable, wait until they leave. If they are actually DOING something wrong, notify management.

    People who are "freaks" in this way really do not want to draw attention to themselves in a lockerroom/bathroom situation.
    So be discreet and stay in the closet? WTF, why should they have to hide when most other people don't have to. =Discrimination.

    Have you ever been to a city larger than say Sheldon? There are plenty Pre-op, Post-Op, hormone taking individuals that don't want to be silent about their changes and hell advertise the shit out of them.

  20. #245
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    Can't find a washroom that fits your gender fluidity?

    Just pee in an elevator!

  21. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by farmer View Post
    Is it right for the state to force private businesses to go pay for that? Extra square footage to build / lease, extra construction costs, extra ongoing maintenance, extra heating / cooling for the larger building, all for something that the overwhelming majority of the population doesn't need? And if businesses don't pay for it, who does? The taxpayer? User fees for Transgendered people?

    Gonna make YOU pay for it personally. You and all of the other folks who like to blather on about the free market and and government over reach any chance they can get. Insensitive clod. There are some things that the free market can not and will not address. So yes, It is right, whatever the solution ends up being, to make businesses pay for it if the wish to be open to the public and/or employ people. I would hope that businesses be given some options so that they can choose the one that best fits their situation.
    Bill Weld for President, 2020

  22. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deebased View Post
    So be discreet and stay in the closet? WTF, why should they have to hide when most other people don't have to. =Discrimination.

    Have you ever been to a city larger than say Sheldon? There are plenty Pre-op, Post-Op, hormone taking individuals that don't want to be silent about their changes and hell advertise the shit out of them.
    You are nuts.

    Be discreet. Yes. Realize that not everyone is comfortable with or understands your body.

    I know actual transpeople. Most will discuss it and don't hide it, but also understand that there is a time and place...

    As for women and their bodies... no idea where you are coming from. My experience is that woman who are completely confident and willing to walk around the gym lockerroom completely naked are not the norm.

    If you are thinking about women you've had sex with being comfortable naked, that's a completely different thing...

  23. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtngirl79 View Post
    I know actual transpeople.
    Gold.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    Hugh Conway sucks
    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    I guess stfu might be right about steel toed boots
    Quote Originally Posted by pedoherp69 View Post
    I know actual transpeople.
    Quote Originally Posted by rokjoxx View Post
    We is got a good military, maybe cause some kids get to shooting sports early here.

  24. #249
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    This thread is ruining 12 y/o me's idea of the ladies locker room.

    Thanks a lot TGR.
    I still call it The Jake.

  25. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowing alpy View Post
    We may need an undercover informant.
    I'll go grab some board shorts and check it out. Trip report to follow.

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