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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlpenChronicHabitual View Post
    Not at all the same, the market is a completely different place now from when many of these other brands started K2, Salomon, Volkl, Rossi, Head, etc).
    Most of those brands are very well established and cater to the full breadth of the market (globally) and have supporting aspects that help to make their business models work.

    How do you know that Moment and Surface are doing OK?
    DPS? They were in hot demand, and a brand on the rise, is that still the case?
    you're right I dont have exact solid numbers to put on how the boutique shops i mentioned are doing. I am making a slight assumption, based on what I know as have seen going to trade shows, see in shops, and hear around the "water cooler".

    I understand those others are well established, but they werent always and all started somewhere. Yes...different time so not exact direct correlation, but....still works to a degree. They all did start with some person, or group of people with an idea/concept for a product and made it happen. I don't ever think that whomever, or whatever happens to Bluehouse will achieve "Volkl" status, but I think someone could make a nice living and have fun (possibly Splat might think different) doing it?

    For Benny to basically shit on the idea was lame. Like rich guys are only rich cause they never too a risk? Risk is how most of em got rich.

    I always thought Bluehouse provided a nicely made ski, had some fun shapes, stood behind their product, and offered it all at a "working mans" price. I rarely heard complaints about the skis, in fact, some on here were sad to hear of them closing shop.

  2. #27
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    I would hardly think that this company is doing "ok" if they are just giving the company away for free.

  3. #28
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    A lot of Outdoor co's that are bleeding money are owned by rich dudes as pet projects. I can name a dozen off the top of my head. That's what SIJ was getting at, not that it's necessarily the smart thing to do for ROI, but the fun thing if you have enough money not to care whether you're profitable or not.

  4. #29
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    ^ c'mon Benny boy! This is your opportunity! Imagine the local cred you'd get by owning your own ski company... And you could make custom tip designs guaranteed not to catch on anything while loading and unloading the chair! There's got to be some niche market to be made in skis specifically designed for those who've had elective knee surgery...
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    We is got a good military, maybe cause some kids get to shooting sports early here.

  5. #30
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    Who wants a ski company?

    Quote Originally Posted by snapt View Post
    A lot of Outdoor co's that are bleeding money are owned by rich dudes as pet projects. I can name a dozen off the top of my head. That's what SIJ was getting at, not that it's necessarily the smart thing to do for ROI, but the fun thing if you have enough money not to care whether you're profitable or not.
    Truth. More of them than you'd think. Not many small ones are profitable.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skidog View Post


    For Benny to basically shit on the idea was lame. Like rich guys are only rich cause they never too a risk? Risk is how most of em got rich.

    You must work as a financial advisor to NBA stars. Besides the many wives and kids, that's how they lose their millions. "Investing" in some small business that they are totally unprepared to run, and are usually unprofitable schemes in the first place. The failure rate of these small businesses are staggeringly high, even when the founders are much better prepared.

    No, most rich people either inherit (at least the start up funds) or are very good at establishing themselves with other peoples money. And they stay rich by investing the profits or daddy's money somewhat conservatively. I knew one wealthy guy who started a ski company in the East, but he told me that it was essentially a hobby, and lost money. He made cool skis, though. I commend the small ski maker, and after my experiences with PMGear, I will try to stay with small makers, but I have no illusions that these guys make even a comfortable living doing that. If they survive, it's a lot of hard, dangerous work with slim profit margins. I raise a drink to them.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapt View Post
    A lot of Outdoor co's that are bleeding money are owned by rich dudes as pet projects. I can name a dozen off the top of my head. That's what SIJ was getting at, not that it's necessarily the smart thing to do for ROI, but the fun thing if you have enough money not to care whether you're profitable or not.
    I can see it now, a maggot owned company that just produces copies of old beloved skis like like Splat's Bros, the Legend Pro 105, etc.

  8. #33
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    This really drives home the message that something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it...

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skidog View Post
    to basically shit on the idea was lame.
    I always thought Bluehouse provided a nicely made ski, had some fun shapes, stood behind their product, and offered it all at a "working mans" price. I rarely heard complaints about the skis, in fact, some on here were sad to hear of them closing shop.
    I hear ya...

    The part of me that loves skis and gear thinks this is cool (and unfortunate that they weren't able to make it work)…
    The other part of me that loves to ski (as often as possible) says "RUN AWAY!

    In my view It's about market opportunity at the end of the day.
    I watched (along with a lot of you) BH push forward some innovative marketing initiatives to build interest and brand recognition, however with all the followers that they manage to develop and attention that was built the ROI still didn't work out (Otherwise they wouldn't be closing shop, right?). D2C in the enthusiast consumer mindset audience is a tough row to hoe in a crowded/noisy/limited market place.

    Factors that weigh for or against success:

    Positioning:
    This is more or less boutique brand (even if the pricing is "working man"), limited production not a high volume operation, the brand (correct me if I am wrong) does not cater to beginner/intermediate market where the volumes might be higher to help support revenue. Opportunities for differentiation that would help the brand to stand out are getting harder and harder to develop.

    Market opportunity:
    Enthusiast level skiers - (us) - How big is that really? And, when you start to divide that among other brands of a similar position, and the big guys that are well established with long histories. what is left for potential market share? You aren't creating or bringing new customers to the plate, therefor you are in a position of having to steal market from the competition…

    Competition:
    There is more competition in this space than ever.
    One look at the ski racks at the demos this season will show that.
    What was once a progressive shape is now become more common among the bigger more established manufactures, not just province to the boutique, craft brew brands, which there are more of than ever.

    Climate and weather:
    This business it tough enough, but a few bad seasons hurts the entire industry and has the potential to front load retail with carryover inventory at prices that can't be ignored by consumers looking for good deals (Who here doesn't like pro-deal pricing?).

    Core equities:
    Don't know enough here to even began - however I can tell you that even with a solid management team, the best equipment, skilled labor and a well managed balance sheet this will always be an uphill battle. Who ever said that the best way to make a million in the ski industry is to start with 2 has a clue.

    So, what's left?
    I like the idea of this becoming a cooperative of some sort. Sort of like frame building classes you can go to if you want to try your hand at building your own bike. Offer a course in how to build a pair of skis, open it up to snowboard as well. Perhaps this could be donated to a local community collage or learning institution something that is funded in a way where ROI is less about selling the end product, and more about the experience?

  10. #35
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    If I can't demo a ski, I won't buy it. I broke that rule with Splat's skis, because he spent years building a brand here and I trusted that. That's patience and hard work and innovative marketing in today's world. If you can't get the word out that way, then you're going to have to get the skis out to your target market on the hills. That's expensive and time consuming. I don't envy the hard work required, with minimal capital flowing back in. Tough biz.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    If I can't demo a ski, I won't buy it. Tough biz.
    Well, and there is that.
    The bigs can and will put out a fleet of regional demo vans because they have an established distribution model that they need to support in order to keep the bus rolling along.

  12. #37
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    This is a cool offer, and I hope someone takes up Bluehouse on it.

    There are so many small start-up ski companies these days, that it's going to be a labor of love. The back of the Powder new ski issue (or is it Freeskier?) always has pages of small companies I've never heard of, with skis I've never seen. Competing in that arena is going to be tough. Best of luck to whoever takes this on!
    Quote Originally Posted by powder11 View Post
    if you have to resort to taking advice from the nitwits on this forum, then you're doomed.

  13. #38
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    I say this with all due respect to past operations, but I think it's clear that whomever picks this company up needs to make a pretty clear pivot from the past even while retaining the name. BlueHouse 2.0. What's the new story? What's unique? That is key for something like this in the current market.

    What would be interesting is a shop for people to come in and do runs of a design, say with a minimum build amount. Kind of like with t-shirts. But of course this is a hell of a lot more complex so not sure if that's in anyway feasible.

  14. #39
    doughboyshredder Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    You must work as a financial advisor to NBA stars. Besides the many wives and kids, that's how they lose their millions. "Investing" in some small business that they are totally unprepared to run, and are usually unprofitable schemes in the first place. The failure rate of these small businesses are staggeringly high, even when the founders are much better prepared.

    No, most rich people either inherit (at least the start up funds) or are very good at establishing themselves with other peoples money. And they stay rich by investing the profits or daddy's money somewhat conservatively. I knew one wealthy guy who started a ski company in the East, but he told me that it was essentially a hobby, and lost money. He made cool skis, though. I commend the small ski maker, and after my experiences with PMGear, I will try to stay with small makers, but I have no illusions that these guys make even a comfortable living doing that. If they survive, it's a lot of hard, dangerous work with slim profit margins. I raise a drink to them.
    Almost impossible to make any decent money building skis/boards. Get big enough to sell and you might end up okay. Otherwise it's a low profit business.

  15. #40
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    i'm in just so i can make the benny beater no go bro model
    and dascunt i'm butthurt youre fired ono nazi model
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -ski on in eternal peace
    "I have posted in here but haven't read it carefully with my trusty PoliAsshat antenna on."-DipshitDanno

  16. #41
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    I seriously cannot imagine you holding down a job for more than a week.

  17. #42
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    its not hard for me to know how youve been here for a few weeks and never skied w/ a mag or maggette
    aint you gots roomates boots to disinfect?
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -ski on in eternal peace
    "I have posted in here but haven't read it carefully with my trusty PoliAsshat antenna on."-DipshitDanno

  18. #43
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    As much as people like to give Benny a bunch of shit the truth is most people making independent skis or any comparable business generally do come from some money. It's just reality, you need a fortune to make a small fortune. I'm not hating on em, it's just the world we live in and we all don't get to be born into enjoying the same sized piece of cake. His attitude towards that reality though could probably use a little adjustment. He sounds a little bitter for working his life away in the east coast rat race and waiting to do his skiing after retiring. Sorry man.

    Now that being said, this is one hell of an opportunity for a wealthy individual that doesn't really have to work every day to develop a fun and cool business, sort of a hobby career. There isn't anything wrong with that, I wish I had the opportunity to be able to do something like that but it's not my reality!

    As mentioned above in previous posts this probably isn't a great idea for someone with a family and no $. Real working people can't afford to take these kinds of risks.
    dirtbag, not a dentist

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skidog View Post
    everything $333? Oh wait......
    More references to that nut job!

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisingArizona View Post
    As much as people like to give Benny a bunch of shit the truth is most people making independent skis or any comparable business generally do come from some money. It's just reality, you need a fortune to make a small fortune. I'm not hating on em, it's just the world we live in and we all don't get to be born into enjoying the same sized piece of cake. His attitude towards that reality though could probably use a little adjustment. He sounds a little bitter for working his life away in the east coast rat race and waiting to do his skiing after retiring. Sorry man.

    Now that being said, this is one hell of an opportunity for a wealthy individual that doesn't really have to work every day to develop a fun and cool business, sort of a hobby career. There isn't anything wrong with that, I wish I had the opportunity to be able to do something like that but it's not my reality!

    As mentioned above in previous posts this probably isn't a great idea for someone with a family and no $. Real working people can't afford to take these kinds of risks.
    Hey, not bitter, that's life. And I think it gave me much more respect and knowledge of what it's like to run a small and large business, and the dangers and downsides of doing so. So I'm not all, hey, dudes, let's all take another hit and run a ski factory! What can go wrong? I understand that many of you are living off interest, but please don't insult the hard working small manufacturer with such flippant talk. It's hard work, for sure.

  21. #46
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    What's the best way to make 5 million bucks in the ski business? Invest 10 million in a small ski company.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapt View Post
    A lot of Outdoor co's that are bleeding money are owned by rich dudes as pet projects. I can name a dozen off the top of my head. That's what SIJ was getting at, not that it's necessarily the smart thing to do for ROI, but the fun thing if you have enough money not to care whether you're profitable or not.
    Looking for investors please forward
    #1 goal this year......stay alive +
    DOWN SKIS

  23. #48
    doughboyshredder Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by RaisingArizona View Post
    As much as people like to give Benny a bunch of shit the truth is most people making independent skis or any comparable business generally do come from some money. It's just reality, you need a fortune to make a small fortune. I'm not hating on em, it's just the world we live in and we all don't get to be born into enjoying the same sized piece of cake. His attitude towards that reality though could probably use a little adjustment. He sounds a little bitter for working his life away in the east coast rat race and waiting to do his skiing after retiring. Sorry man.

    Now that being said, this is one hell of an opportunity for a wealthy individual that doesn't really have to work every day to develop a fun and cool business, sort of a hobby career. There isn't anything wrong with that, I wish I had the opportunity to be able to do something like that but it's not my reality!

    As mentioned above in previous posts this probably isn't a great idea for someone with a family and no $. Real working people can't afford to take these kinds of risks.
    It's not a matter of risk, it's a numbers game. The numbers don't pan out, unless you're okay making 40k a year, or you sell at least 10,000 pairs of skis and are okay making 60k a year. The profit just isn't there.

  24. #49
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    Gluten free skis with anti-vaxxer topsheets.
    "timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang

  25. #50
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    Id say theres a market for veganfreeheelskis
    watch out for snakes

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