ON3P SKIS Discussion

[jackattack]

I’d really like to demo the wren 114. Sounds like a great ski.

[Sessiøn]

5 foot 9....220. I have been on just about every iteration and length of BG down to the current 184. I think the 184 gives up very little in stability to the longer ones. The current 184 loses length from the tail and not he nose of the ski, and I absolutely adored the 186.

[Kopi_Red]

I’m 6’ and 175lbs and riding 184 Billy Goats. If I were buying new ones today I’d go 189 but that’s only because I noticed some “plowing” in certain kinds of snow that I “think” might be cured with a little more length. Additionally, I would add extra carbon to stiffen them some more, and probably go veneer.

For you, you’d probably find the 184’s great but if you’re always after the longest ski, go 189. I doubt you’ll give up much either way. RES enables a level of maneuverability that’s just unmatched IMO.

BG’s handle any kind of snow really well it’s just that they’re especially good at blasting thru PNW and Sierra crud.

I have Super Goats and in certain snow conditions I find that they plow. It doesn't happen all of the time but it does happen. Regardless, I think that the SGs are one of the best resort pow skis I've ever been on and they're so good at smashing through chop/crud.

[MHSP1497]

I have Super Goats and in certain snow conditions I find that they plow. It doesn't happen all of the time but it does happen.

thungs that make me go, hmmmmmmm... Curious.

[SkiLyft]

Adding a data point — 6ft 200lbs - 189. Wouldn’t go smaller. Plenty of maneuverability in trees.


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[SupreChicken]

Another data point. 6’ 165#

Resort - 189 BG.
BC - 184 steeple 116 (BG with tour layup).

[greasyslope]

My stats aren’t helpful to the discussion, but my lady is 6’1”, 165, uses 186 BG’s. Seems about perfect.

Keep in mind that ON3P’s measure long compared to most brands. My 189 wrens are almost as long as my 194 Devs standing next to each other.

[Glen1978]

Love my Billygoats. They are 2017 issue bought here in Colorado local from a guy that tore his ACL....skiied 3 times with Marker Jester bindings for $300 bucks. Im 5'11 / 200# and his they are 184 length....ski awesome to me.

I have a pair of 181cm Kartel 108s and just cant get comfortable in them. They seem "squirrley" to me for lack of better words. Why is that? Is it due to the tail of the Kartel vs the BG? Ive thought about selling the Kartels and maybe trying to find something a bit narrower that wont be anywhere close to overlapping the BG. I dont do park and rarely ski switch so dont really need the twin tip (bought the Kartel off friends advice instead of what I really needed).

[tuco]

Love my Billygoats. They are 2017 issue bought here in Colorado local from a guy that tore his ACL....skiied 3 times with Marker Jester bindings for $300 bucks. Im 5'11 / 200# and his they are 184 length....ski awesome to me.

I have a pair of 181cm Kartel 108s and just cant get comfortable in them. They seem "squirrley" to me for lack of better words. Why is that? Is it due to the tail of the Kartel vs the BG? Ive thought about selling the Kartels and maybe trying to find something a bit narrower that wont be anywhere close to overlapping the BG. I dont do park and rarely ski switch so dont really need the twin tip (bought the Kartel off friends advice instead of what I really needed).

Detune the Kartels

[MHSP1497]

Took the new C&D’s out today in 7-9” of fresh light snow at T-Line. Holy crap are these things amazing. Absolutely effortless. The flex is awesome, round is a perfect description. Big time confidence booster riding these skis. The asym is pretty effective as well, I’m a fan. The tails release perfectly and the uphill ski tracks really well. I’m blown away, Iggy. You guys killed it with this ski.

As long as it keeps dumping on Mt Hood, I’ll be out on these everyday I can! I can see how in heavier snow, hard bumps and other variable snow where my BG’s will be better. However, I can see myself grabbing the C&D’s with some real frequency. They’re that much fun to ride and anything soft/powdery over 5”

[Adrgha]

Took the new C&D’s out today in 7-9” of fresh light snow at T-Line. Holy crap are these things amazing. Absolutely effortless. The flex is awesome, round is a perfect description. Big time confidence booster riding these skis. The asym is pretty effective as well, I’m a fan. The tails release perfectly and the uphill ski tracks really well. I’m blown away, Iggy. You guys killed it with this ski.

As long as it keeps dumping on Mt Hood, I’ll be out on these everyday I can! I can see how in heavier snow, hard bumps and other variable snow where my BG’s will be better. However, I can see myself grabbing the C&D’s with some real frequency. They’re that much fun to ride and anything soft/powdery over 5”

Music to my ears! Keep the C&D stoke coming!

[SupreChicken]

Took the new C&D’s out today in 7-9” of fresh light snow at T-Line. Holy crap are these things amazing. Absolutely effortless. The flex is awesome, round is a perfect description. Big time confidence booster riding these skis. The asym is pretty effective as well, I’m a fan. The tails release perfectly and the uphill ski tracks really well. I’m blown away, Iggy. You guys killed it with this ski.

As long as it keeps dumping on Mt Hood, I’ll be out on these everyday I can! I can see how in heavier snow, hard bumps and other variable snow where my BG’s will be better. However, I can see myself grabbing the C&D’s with some real frequency. They’re that much fun to ride and anything soft/powdery over 5”

Agree. Local hill reported 3”, was easily 6” and I was mad I left the C&D in the stable.

[jackattack]

Wren 108 slays boot top facets

[MHSP1497]

Day 2 on the C&D’s in 11” of new snow. My God these skis are amazing!!! Like before, effortless in steep, deep variable snow; tore up the trees between Molly’s and Pucci. Put 6 runs thru them and only ever saw my own tracks... These things stomp landings when sending drops, surf thru the low-angle so well and simply shut down on demand in sketchy spots. These are my new favorite skis!

(stupid iPad keeps rotating the pics, tried too many times to make it right to care...)




On the other hand, my wife had her 1st day out on her BG’s. She struggled a lot. She said she was having a hard time getting them to turn and on the groomers they felt locked-in to the line and didn’t break free for her. I suspect I need to do some heavy de-tuning of the edges. I also think it’s because it was only her 2nd day this season and she isn’t quite in shape yet. Time will tell.

[mtnjam]

^^ Noice photo.

Finally feeling the love of the Wren 98's. They're so stable at speed and get around real nice in the brush and trees at Bogus.

[eggsbenedict]

I bought BGs last year after reading much of this thread, but due to reasons didn't really get a chance to use them in their element until this last couple weeks of PNW dumps. They've lived up to all the praise and then some, highly recommend to anyone in the PNW, especially if you spend time in the trees and don't have quite the confidence as you did when you were 7 on 100cm skis.

So, thanks thread.

[Adrgha]

Day 2 on the C&D’s in 11” of new snow. My God these skis are amazing!!! Like before, effortless in steep, deep variable snow; tore up the trees between Molly’s and Pucci. Put 6 runs thru them and only ever saw my own tracks... These things stomp landings when sending drops, surf thru the low-angle so well and simply shut down on demand in sketchy spots. These are my new favorite skis!

(stupid iPad keeps rotating the pics, tried too many times to make it right to care...)

On the other hand, my wife had her 1st day out on her BG’s. She struggled a lot. She said she was having a hard time getting them to turn and on the groomers they felt locked-in to the line and didn’t break free for her. I suspect I need to do some heavy de-tuning of the edges. I also think it’s because it was only her 2nd day this season and she isn’t quite in shape yet. Time will tell.

Thank you! The C&D reports are keeping my stoke alive while waiting for the rain to turn to snow over here, so I can finally take them out for a spin.

[MHSP1497]

Thank you! The C&D reports are keeping my stoke alive while waiting for the rain to turn to snow over here, so I can finally take them out for a spin.

of course, man! you’re going to be SO happy w/ them... they’re just awesome.

[SupreChicken]

of course, man! you’re going to be SO happy w/ them... they’re just awesome.

Yup. Couldn’t say it better.

[Backward_Banana]

This has probably been beaten to death in this thread before, but I'm looking to replace some Sin 7s as my inbounds daily driver (too short, too soft). I picked up some Steeple 116's for touring this year, which I've been digging. Resort skiied 'em for a few days to get used to them and really dug them, so I'm thinking of sticking with ON3P for the inbounds DD. I'm looking somewhere in the 95-108 category.

Wren or Kartel? I really like how easy the Steeples (basically BGs) are to turn in tight trees, etc, which is making me lean towards Kartel, but I don't really ski the park at all, and tend towards bigger open turns in open terrain.

[auvgeek]

This has probably been beaten to death in this thread before, but I'm looking to replace some Sin 7s as my inbounds daily driver (too short, too soft). I picked up some Steeple 116's for touring this year, which I've been digging. Resort skiied 'em for a few days to get used to them and really dug them, so I'm thinking of sticking with ON3P for the inbounds DD. I'm looking somewhere in the 95-108 category.

Wren or Kartel? I really like how easy the Steeples (basically BGs) are to turn in tight trees, etc, which is making me lean towards Kartel, but I don't really ski the park at all, and tend towards bigger open turns in open terrain.

As I've said many times (I don't mind repeating but fair warning to regulars in this thread), the biggest difference between the Kartel and the Wren is the mount point, with the Kartel being much more forward mounted than the Wren.

There are other differences, too, like the turn radius and the amount of tail rocker, but in my personal experience, the biggest difference in the way they ski is the mount point. If you like a traditional, rearward mount where you get into a forward stance and drive the tips to initiate your turns, you would prefer the Wren and might have trouble adjusting to the balance of the Kartel and might even you'll want to mount it a bit behind the line, like -1 or -2 cm. If you like to ski in a neutral stance, balanced fore/aft on the ski, and initiate turns with your ankles, then I think you'll be happier on the Kartel.

Both the K108 and W108 are great skis, not hard to ski, and I think you'd be stoked on either one. And I think a 105-110 width is the perfect width for a daily driver out west, anywhere from CO to WA. The old Wren used to be much more demanding and had a reputation as much, but for the last several seasons it's had considerable rocker in both the tip and tail, so it breaks free easily and isn't locked into a single turn shape. The tail doesn't break free quite as easily as the Kartel series because the Wren has less tail rocker but I think that's less noticeable than the difference in mount points.

On soft groomers, I found it easier to carve on the K108 because of the tighter radius. The W108 will absolutely carve, but you have to be comfortable with making big turns and the speed the accompanies them. As a point of fact, if you're not carving on edge, a longer radius doesn't matter much when a ski has substantial rocker because you can always skid/slarve/slide/drift your turns so you're not really locked into the radius. And a longer radius is less hooky when moving sideways in variable snow. Most people associate a short radius with short turns, but you can make a variety of turn shapes work if you're comfortable skidding turns instead of carving them.

Frankly, neither ski is particularly good on ice because of the amount of rocker. If you want something good on ice, try something with high torsional stiffness and minimal rocker, maybe the Monster 98. Pretty sure that's not what you want, though.

The W108 is maybe a little easier going v. fast in tracked pow cuz of the rearward balance point, but frankly, those are conditions where you'd want to be on your Steeples or BGs anyway. I prefer the K108 because I like a progressive mount -- it just feels more balanced to me in most conditions. But that's me and not you, obviously.

[KyleLanTheman]

My wren108 isn't my go-to tight tree ski by any means, manageable for sure but they wanna eat and they'll bite if you're not feeding them. They really excell when ripping big arcs through variable snow. They seriously make chop feel like a pow day. Super damp, super stable, with a stiff fat tail that keeps you locked in the turn when you need it.

For noodling around trees, tight bumps, park, etc I'd bet the kartel would prevail.

Maybe an oversimplification but I'd hazard a guess that
Wren = big mountain
Kartel = all mountain

[TahoeJ]

Touring layup K108's in 186cm... come and get 'em: https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...-Touring-Layup

A steal for someone.

[Backward_Banana]

Right on, thanks for the info guys. I've gotten more and more used to skiing centered (too much time on light and tweaky backcountry skis), so it sounds like maybe the Kartel is more my cup of tea than I had thought. And I agree with what you're saying about the turning radius not meaning everything when it comes to the type of turns you can make. I'm Portland based, so I'm going to track down some demos of both to see what feels right.

Anyone have any thoughts/experiences with the Skinny Goat? Looks like there's a possibility to pick some up, and since I like my Steeple/BGs so much, I was thinking that a slightly skinnier version might fit the bill for what I'm looking for. Doesn't seem like there's a huge amount of info out there on these.

[kid-kapow]

quality reply Auv! And yes, I also agree with Kyle - wrens are awesome at mach loony in shitty snow - though BGs and Steeples should handled that with gusto as well.

Also, I am a bit surprised that you couldn't make the Kartels work for you TJ. Considering the amount of people who like to get jibby on their k108s, I would suggest you market it as such - it is basically a pink top sheet and a detune away from being the LSM pro build option - only 275usd cheaper and mounted with a thread pattern that should work well if the new owner decides to mount with pivots - especially if mounted a bit forward of the line

https://shop.on3pskis.com/collection...sms-kartel-108

and since you didn't, I will repost your beauties! I am guessing they will be sold fairly quick - they look sensational and should be a slam dunk with the jibby ON3P crowd



To revert a bit back to the question at hand - Wrens do super well in soft snow for sure, but are best with a bit of speed I find. As mentioned above, in tracked out soft snow they are my first choice when doing mach loony - they just work sooo well then. Kartels aren't nearly as good at punching through stuff, but are much looser and probably pivots on a dime due to the deep rocker lines. I have yet to try em in deep snow, but k108s are a lot of fun on soft groomers catering to a myriad of turn shapes well. My one ski quiver would have been a custom stiffer set of k108s I agree with Auv that there are better skis than ON3Ps on pure ice, but on everything else ON3Ps pretty much kill it.

As for your last question concerning skinny Goats or Steeple108s, skis with RES is never going to kill it on groomers, but will pivot and punch through variable with ease. Considering you already have a pair of S116s, I would probably go with k108s if I were you. Perfect daily driver out west if you can teach yourself to ski more centered.