ON3P SKIS Discussion

**Viva** · 03-08-2021, 07:38 PM

They just, like, you know, tie the room together.

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**Doremite** · 03-08-2021, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by davjr96

I currently have (and love) a pair of Woodsman 96s. I use them when there hasn't been much fresh snow, dust on crust, etc, and pair them with a Praxis Concept for pow. I'm looking to get something to slot in the middle between the two for days where it snowed a ton a few days before and hasn't quite hardened yet but is very very chopped up. I ski Tahoe, so think that 80" storm we got on a Thursday a month or so ago and I was skiing Sunday.
I was considering the Wren 102 Ti. The waist is what I am going for and I want something more on the chargier side, hence the wren TI over say a woodsman 108. My problem is the shortest length it comes in is 179. I'm 5'5" 130 and ski the 172 woodsman and 177 praxis fine, but I think an "ON3P 179" with TI might be too much. Any thoughts or experiences? Anything else I might want to look at for this use case? Thanks!

I don’t have Ti experience but I can tell you the 182cm Woodsman is more mellow than the 179cm (non-Ti) modern Wren. Could be a stretch if you are cool on 172 Woods.

**aanev** · 03-09-2021, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by davjr96

I currently have (and love) a pair of Woodsman 96s. I use them when there hasn't been much fresh snow, dust on crust, etc, and pair them with a Praxis Concept for pow. I'm looking to get something to slot in the middle between the two for days where it snowed a ton a few days before and hasn't quite hardened yet but is very very chopped up. I ski Tahoe, so think that 80" storm we got on a Thursday a month or so ago and I was skiing Sunday.
I was considering the Wren 102 Ti. The waist is what I am going for and I want something more on the chargier side, hence the wren TI over say a woodsman 108. My problem is the shortest length it comes in is 179. I'm 5'5" 130 and ski the 172 woodsman and 177 praxis fine, but I think an "ON3P 179" with TI might be too much. Any thoughts or experiences? Anything else I might want to look at for this use case? Thanks!

Wren108 vs Wren108ti (184cm) experience here:

Wren108 is stiffer longitudinally.
Wren108ti is stiffer torsionally.
They are more similar than different and we are talking nuances.

**Brasso** · 03-09-2021, 12:35 AM

Originally Posted by thejongiest

Picked up some 182 Woodsman 108's from steveski off here. Got a full day on them today in PNW-style dust on crust, put them at -1cm from the line (I think these were 2020 ones before the line was moved back). Overall I liked them quite a bit. I was skiing the 184 Moment Wildcat 108s before and felt a little bit undergunned on them when I was in deeper pow.

Compared to the Moment's I feel like these definitely do give up a bit of hard snow performance. Specifically edge hold on firmer snow. Anything moderately soft and they felt just as playful as the Wildcats. They definitely feel more turny than the Wildcats. In chop, they definitely are more damp than the Wildcats and I can ski faster, but on groomers I feel that the Wildcats have a higher top speed. In bumps, I liked the Wildcats better I won't lie, but both are quite easy to move around.

The main reason I picked these up was I felt very undergunned on the 184 Wildcat 108s on a heavy pow day this year and I thought the Woodsman might float better. haven't had a chance to test this out yet.

I felt the same on the Wildcat 108s in 184 too. Good to know it's not just me. Fortunately, I'll have mounted 189cm Billy Goats in my hands for the deeper inbounds days. I've been skiing almost all soft snow days in Steeple 116s 184cm for a couple years now and love them to death, so I'm eager to play with true Billy Goats. The AFD on the Steeple's Shifts gave out, so these Billy Goats are ready just in time.

I'm picking up Wren 108s fresh from mounting at the same time too, so the quiver grows +2 in the ON3P direction. ON3P kills it imo.

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**Tahoepa** · 03-09-2021, 03:50 AM

Originally Posted by aanev

Wren108 vs Wren108ti (184cm) experience here:

Wren108 is stiffer longitudinally.
Wren108ti is stiffer torsionally.
They are more similar than different and we are talking nuances.

My 15yo is ripping Wren 184ti’s. He’s bout 150 lbs and loves em. I wouldn’t be afraid of the metal. Kinda wish I bought the Ti layup on my 189’s. Agree they feel really similar in hand but I can’t speak to a apples to apples size comparison as the family has 184’s and 189’s. The rocker profile on these things makes em super fun with lots of top end.

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**Orthoski** · 03-09-2021, 06:35 AM

School me on the Woodsman 108 mount point. My understanding is that it got moved back for the 2020-21 season. On the other hand, I have the 2019 version of the 96s and don't hate the mount point, have loved the Jeffrey's, like the idea of something in between rather than closer to the Wrens. I've never mounted ON3Ps anywhere but the recommended line but are people adjusting this on the Woodsman?

**adrenalated** · 03-09-2021, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by Orthoski

School me on the Woodsman 108 mount point. My understanding is that it got moved back for the 2020-21 season. On the other hand, I have the 2019 version of the 96s and don't hate the mount point, have loved the Jeffrey's, like the idea of something in between rather than closer to the Wrens. I've never mounted ON3Ps anywhere but the recommended line but are people adjusting this on the Woodsman?

I moved back 1cm on the 2019-2020 Woodsman, but only because I know I prefer a more traditional mount point. I would mount the current model on the line.

**tuco** · 03-09-2021, 10:53 AM

Pretty sure new mount point was accompanied by a sidecut change of some sort--cant quite remember wut tho

**adrenalated** · 03-09-2021, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by tuco

Pretty sure new mount point was accompanied by a sidecut change of some sort--cant quite remember wut tho

I believe just aligning the sidecut to the new mount point.

**N1CK.** · 03-09-2021, 01:02 PM

my Woodsman 108s are 19/20 ... I didn't catch the mount discussion. Are we saying -1 is preferable to mounting on the line?

**adrenalated** · 03-09-2021, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by N1CK.

my Woodsman 108s are 19/20 ... I didn't catch the mount discussion. Are we saying -1 is preferable to mounting on the line?

For me personally, yes. For most people, probably not.

As iggy has said previously... unless you know exactly why you are wanting to move the mount point, mount on the line.

**tuco** · 03-09-2021, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by adrenalated

I believe just aligning the sidecut to the new mount point.

As per post #8680
Woods 96 tighter radius
W108 minor sidecut tweak
W116 minor sidecut tweak
-.75 mount across the line

**N1CK.** · 03-09-2021, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by adrenalated

For me personally, yes. For most people, probably not.

As iggy has said previously... unless you know exactly why you are wanting to move the mount point, mount on the line.

I have no complaints with the way mine ski, so no plans to move the toe. But for the sake of chatter, what are your reasons or pros/cons?

**adrenalated** · 03-09-2021, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by N1CK.

I have no complaints with the way mine ski, so no plans to move the toe. But for the sake of chatter, what are your reasons or pros/cons?

I typically prefer more traditionally mounted skis (Wren, BG, Belafonte, etc.) and ski on the front of my boots. I typically dislike skis with more centered mount unless I move the mount back (old Jeffrey, typically mount back on all Praxis). So although I wanted a more playful, forgiving ski out of the Woodsman, I knew I would get along with them mounted a little behind the original mount point (which was something like -6.... I think?). Now that the mount has been moved back, I think I'd be just fine with the recommended mount.

They ski great there, for me. I can ski lazy/upright by my standards and basically just stand on the balls of my feet and they do whatever I want them to. Tail doesn't feel hooky or the tip unsupportive) like I feel on more centered skis. And they don't feel like I need to be forward and in charge at all times like I do on the Wrens. Pretty similar to how I stand on BGs, honestly. So for me, personally, and how I want to stand on the ski, the mount point I picked feels perfect.

**Brasso** · 03-09-2021, 05:23 PM

Is there a list lying around of base and side angles as the skis shipped from the factory?

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**Tahoepa** · 03-09-2021, 05:29 PM

My 116’s ski great on the mark. Took a cpl runs to get my head outta it but I’ve been happy. I thought and read a lot about this issue before I drilled mine because I like a directional ski. I haven’t skied Jeffreys but I can push on mine like my Wrens or BG’s and they lay nice GS turns. As stated before they are very versatile with weight distribution and turn shape. I’ll always drill on the mark for ON3P but I can’t speak to forward or back mount points as I didn’t have demos. Could be fun to play with that but there’s been a lot of thought and testing I trust to get it right where they are marked.

I didn’t get along with GPO’s or Bibby’s because of the more forward rec mount. I get along great with my Woodsmans despite being more forward than most of my other shit.

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**Sessiøn** · 03-09-2021, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Brasso

Is there a list lying around of base and side angles as the skis shipped from the factory?

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https://shop.on3pskis.com/pages/faq

1/1

**Brasso** · 03-09-2021, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by Sessiøn

https://shop.on3pskis.com/pages/faq

1/1

That should've been obvious. I've read that exact answer before, too. Thank you sir!

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**Tahoepa** · 03-09-2021, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by Brasso

Is there a list lying around of base and side angles as the skis shipped from the factory?

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I think everything comes with a 1/1 for edge bevels If that helps. there’s a park tune that entails a detune underfoot I believe.

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**EWG** · 03-09-2021, 05:38 PM

Alright you brainwashers I've joined the club, 186 Jeffrey 108s, mounted on the line. Skied for the the first time a few days ago. I hope you are proud of yourselves.

I found them to be pretty ideal skis so far, but I've only tried them in low tide. Quick and responsive, but not floppy. I can drive them if I want to, but I have to decide to do it. But they are also surfable which I really like. I was charging tight trees with em and they were intuitive - didn't eat any bark. Haven't quite figured out where the edge is - they got a little grabby just ahead of the boot a couple of times. They have a lot more bite at the tip and tail then those Mordecais I've been playing around on, which really are surfboards. I was finding it really easy to but the tips where i wanted them and edge with them before they were fully weighted. They like to bounce in bumps which is enjoyable for sure.

So, initial review is very, very positive. It'll take a little bit longer to dial them in, and now my quiver is three skis that require three very different skiing styles, but oh well. Price you pay.

I really like how, on steep or tight stuff, you can just get your weight down the hill and then let the skies do the work under you. Had me going a bit too fast in some very tight spots for being on unfamiliar boards. I think that is a compliment.

Excited for the next day. Hopefully Friday...

**Sessiøn** · 03-09-2021, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by EWG

Alright you brainwashers I've joined the club, 186 Jeffrey 108s, mounted on the line. Skied for the the first time a few days ago. I hope you are proud of yourselves.

I found them to be pretty ideal skis so far, but I've only tried them in low tide. Quick and responsive, but not floppy. I can drive them if I want to, but I have to decide to do it. But they are also surfable which I really like. I was charging tight trees with em and they were intuitive - didn't eat any bark. Haven't quite figured out where the edge is - they got a little grabby just ahead of the boot a couple of times. They have a lot more bite at the tip and tail then those Mordecais I've been playing around on, which really are surfboards. I was finding it really easy to but the tips where i wanted them and edge with them before they were fully weighted. They like to bounce in bumps which is enjoyable for sure.

So, initial review is very, very positive. It'll take a little bit longer to dial them in, and now my quiver is three skis that require three very different skiing styles, but oh well. Price you pay.

I really like how, on steep or tight stuff, you can just get your weight down the hill and then let the skies do the work under you. Had me going a bit too fast in some very tight spots for being on unfamiliar boards. I think that is a compliment.

Excited for the next day. Hopefully Friday...

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**himavan** · 03-10-2021, 01:01 AM

Can anyone one advise me on this tune issue?:
Got a new pair of Jeff 108s mounted on line recently to round out my quiver (between kartel 98s and billygoats). Both skis are noticeably grabby, especially compared to my K98s (not horribly so, but significant enough. Skis are still fun just don’t feel right). It feels like they want to stay flat, and they resist rolling over onto edge. -like they are fighting my feet (pulling them to roll to the outside). They don’t feel hooky and unpredictable though. The grabbiness is kind of constant and predictable in that sense..

This is most noticeable at low edge angles. And they are not liking short turns, feathered turns, lazy turns, speed checks, etc. But they love arcing big clean carves. When rolled all the way over they lock into gs turns, and in those turns have much better grip then my K98s or my moment deathwishes (btw – K98s got a major tune/grind this year so not dull. Edges still at 1/1). They are almost too dependable on firm snow given how I think they should feel.

I’ve put 7-8 days on them, detuned tips tails. Then the entire edge (though with a diamond stone/gummy, not a file). This helped a little but doesn't seem to be the issue. I’ve never felt this kind of off grabbiness/resistance on any skis I’ve owned.

I don’t have a true bar. Tried to use some straight edges to see if edge high, but they don’t seem so – at least not obviously so, but I’m not sure.

Any diagnosis/advice most appreciated.

**tuco** · 03-10-2021, 06:01 AM

Edge bevels
Reset or retune

**Doremite** · 03-10-2021, 06:19 AM

Originally Posted by tuco

Edge bevels
Reset or retune

X2. I had to do a (1 1) reset on W108s. Night and day. Totally different ski. Day 1 I knew something was way wrong. Similar to what you described, himavan. Took ‘em to a reputable tuning shop for a reset. Day 2: Connected from the first turn. Our relationship continues to be wonderful.

The woods were my ~6th pair of ON3P skis and the only ones I’ve had to reset. Typically their factory tunes are spot on for me.

**Orthoski** · 03-10-2021, 06:29 AM

Originally Posted by Doremite

X2. I had to do a (1 1) reset on W108s. Night and day. Totally different ski. Day 1 I knew something was way wrong. Similar to what you described, himavan. Took ‘em to a reputable tuning shop for a reset. Day 2: Connected from the first turn. Our relationship continues to be wonderful.

The woods were my ~6th pair of ON3P skis and the only ones I’ve had to reset. Typically their factory tunes are spot on for me.

ibid.