ON3P SKIS Discussion

[MiddleOfNight]

[whyturn]

Don’t ask why, just sack up and pray for snow




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[Muggydude]

Horsemen of the apocalypse


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[cydwhit]

Nice! I might have missed it, but what did these end up weighing?

1860ish g per ski in the 186 length. Basically exactly what I was hoping for.

[kid-kapow]

They should be something like 20% lighter (pretty consistent across the BG and Woods touring offerings - do not have the weights for last year's j108tour so can't compare), so the 182 and 186 should be ballpark 1.74 and 1,88kg - potentially a tad lighter.

1860ish g per ski in the 186 length. Basically exactly what I was hoping for.

Thanks for getting back to me Cyd - I must admit to looking forward to getting to know their finished weight.

Nice to see how consistent the weight drop is across the ranges.

I would love to see a picture of them as well - too few j118 pics as of late with them being out of stock since they were introduced

[Trapp]

Much less hooky than my Pillowfights.

what

I had the same response. Not sure how that's possible!

I find the Pillowfights a bit hooky or grabby in chopped up snow and transitions in variable conditions. I’ve gotten thrown OTB a handful of times.

Count me in the disbelief camp.

[TexasGortex]

It was supposed to be a compliment! They feel a lot more refined.

[lrn2swim]

Likely going to be listing a pair of 189 '20 Wren 108s mounted with Peak 18s in GS soon, wanted to give a heads up here first in case there's interest. In great shape, $300 flat, $400 with bindings (+shipping, local seattle ideal). Love the skis dearly, too much overlap with the WD 108s now. Probably looking for a skinnier TI Wren to add instead.

[cydwhit]

Thanks for getting back to me Cyd - I must admit to looking forward to getting to know their finished weight.

Nice to see how consistent the weight drop is across the ranges.

I would love to see a picture of them as well - too few j118 pics as of late with them being out of stock since they were introduced

Since I'm procrastinating really hard today, and since these might be my favorite graphics I've ever owned, here ya go:


Shifts are not my favorite binding, but they're what I had on hand when these showed up. And after skiing them, I'm actually pretty stoked on the combo, I could imagine skiing these inbounds on pow days with zero hesitation, they feel really composed and absorb chatter very well for their weight.

[PeachesNCream]

Since I'm procrastinating really hard today, and since these might be my favorite graphics I've ever owned, here ya go:


Shifts are not my favorite binding, but they're what I had on hand when these showed up. And after skiing them, I'm actually pretty stoked on the combo, I could imagine skiing these inbounds on pow days with zero hesitation, they feel really composed and absorb chatter very well for their weight.

These are cool

Have you spent time on the J116? Obviously the tour is going to feel different but curious if the J116 -> J118 was a big update

[cydwhit]

These are cool

Have you spent time on the J116? Obviously the tour is going to feel different but curious if the J116 -> J118 was a big update

Yep, DD'd the J116 for a year and a half and loved that ski. Don't have enough time on the 118 to really make a comparison yet unfortunately.

[MiddleOfNight]

It was supposed to be a compliment! They feel a lot more refined.

Refined? Are the PF's not the smoothest and most elegant ride in town? My girls are a pair of shimmering sophisticants: Unmatched in their form, their manners, their majestic grace.

Yeah you should prob sell me your PF's
Log this as first dibs, fellow maggots.

So my PF's and I have hit heavy chopped up crap that's setting up, and been just physically abused, based on how they try to float on every imaginable surface instead of breaking through. We've found windslab, like I was on snowblades fighting for my dignity .. we've been on breakable crust and struggling .. + corn, groomer, deep untracked, month old slab .. but I've just never heard (or considered) the word hooky in the same ionosphere as the pillowfight in any circumstance. It can be a lot of things in challenging conditions, but hooky ??
Marion, don't look at it .. shut your eyes Marion don't look at it no matter what happens. .. That's why my face melted off.
Maybe we're not skiing the same conditions .. I dunno .. I just .. ?

Anyway. Really interesting review of the C/D. I don't ski switch, but echo your voice on 'poppy' and nimble in the air and stable on landings. Will haveta think about the pivot being 1' off the toe - I hadn't noticed this, but might believe it. I agree that they punish backseat. I've never skied them at a resort, so no comment on the 'groomer back to the lift' thoughts - but if you like ripping GS turns on pow stick, I imagine you have the same thoughts on your (soon-to-be-mine) PF's. I haven't really opened them up, they are a pow trees to moderately open stick for me - but I haven't personally found their speed limit, though I'm not near as charge-y as lots of dentists here.

After your post, I went down to compare my OG 191 BG, CD, and PF re: mount point, shape, rocker, etc. Sure an interesting comparison, but I don't know enough (anything) about ski geometry to take anything meaningful from it. I noticed that the CD compared to the BG, the mount point was maybe a little back (relatively maybe -2?), but again .. too much ignorance, and too many differences in the skis to draw conclusions.

Interested in your thoughts on the CD in deeper, heavier snow. Lemme know if you wanna unload those pesky, hooky PF's :-)))

[Norseman]

Refined? Are the PF's not the smoothest and most elegant ride in town? My girls are a pair of shimmering sophisticants: Unmatched in their form, their manners, their majestic grace.

Yeah you should prob sell me your PF's
Log this as first dibs, fellow maggots.

So my PF's and I have hit heavy chopped up crap that's setting up, and been just physically abused, based on how they try to float on every imaginable surface instead of breaking through. We've found windslab, like I was on snowblades fighting for my dignity .. we've been on breakable crust and struggling .. + corn, groomer, deep untracked, month old slab .. but I've just never heard (or considered) the word hooky in the same ionosphere as the pillowfight in any circumstance. It can be a lot of things in challenging conditions, but hooky ??
Marion, don't look at it .. shut your eyes Marion don't look at it no matter what happens. .. That's why my face melted off.
Maybe we're not skiing the same conditions .. I dunno .. I just .. ?

Anyway. Really interesting review of the C/D. I don't ski switch, but echo your voice on 'poppy' and nimble in the air and stable on landings. Will haveta think about the pivot being 1' off the toe - I hadn't noticed this, but might believe it. I agree that they punish backseat. I've never skied them at a resort, so no comment on the 'groomer back to the lift' thoughts - but if you like ripping GS turns on pow stick, I imagine you have the same thoughts on your (soon-to-be-mine) PF's. I haven't really opened them up, they are a pow trees to moderately open stick for me - but I haven't personally found their speed limit, though I'm not near as charge-y as lots of dentists here.

After your post, I went down to compare my OG 191 BG, CD, and PF re: mount point, shape, rocker, etc. Sure an interesting comparison, but I don't know enough (anything) about ski geometry to take anything meaningful from it. I noticed that the CD compared to the BG, the mount point was maybe a little back (relatively maybe -2?), but again .. too much ignorance, and too many differences in the skis to draw conclusions.

Interested in your thoughts on the CD in deeper, heavier snow. Lemme know if you wanna unload those pesky, hooky PF's :-)))

Poetic.

[Bandit Man]

Someone is talking out of their ass about the C&D’s…just sayin’.

And we really ought to break out some of these models into their own threads. For instance, there is lots of C&D info from the past several seasons buried in this thread, but it is a pain in the ass to dig through all the graphics and “where should I mount my Jeffery’s?” banter to find it.

But carry on…this is TGR and we aren’t that sophisticated. 🤪

[TexasGortex]

Interested in your thoughts on the CD in deeper, heavier snow. Lemme know if you wanna unload those pesky, hooky PF's :-)))

Same. I wouldn’t be surprised if my thoughts evolve once I ski them in appropriate conditions.

I’m hanging on the PF, sorry. I took them to Japan once and I’ll do it again after the borders open. I really like those skis. I hope it didn’t come across as overly critical. I think they are both really good at what they are designed for but designed for different things.

[TexasGortex]

Someone is talking out of their ass about the C&D’s…just sayin’.

And we really ought to break out some of these models into their own threads. For instance, there is lots of C&D info from the past several seasons buried in this thread, but it is a pain in the ass to dig through all the graphics and “where should I mount my Jeffery’s?” banter to find it.

But carry on…this is TGR and we aren’t that sophisticated. 🤪

I shared my thoughts thinking it might help someone. I struggled to find relevant info for the same reason and ended up a bit surprised. In the end, I think it could a good ski for more people than I would have guessed.

[TeleBeaver]

Cease and Desist are Fk'n rad and I am mad that I have only had two ski days this year with the right conditions to bring them out. Hoping for a miracle march...

[MiddleOfNight]

Same. I wouldn’t be surprised if my thoughts evolve once I ski them in appropriate conditions.

I’m hanging on the PF, sorry. I took them to Japan once and I’ll do it again after the borders open. I really like those skis. I hope it didn’t come across as overly critical. I think they are both really good at what they are designed for but designed for different things.

As depth and density change, I think you'll be pleased with how your view of the CD expands. They really are a great stick, incredibly versatile in a lot of soft snow, terrain, and pitch conditions. I think they have a much larger 'sweet spot' of snow conditions than they get credit for. I think the BG may ski variable/chop and heavier PNW snow maybe just a little better.

Aside from early season chop .. so far this year the PF has been my daily driver, the CD coming in #2 in days. In deep snow and steep open lines I will always, always, let my girls run, every day of the week. I've had strong fun with those girls .. stronger than the law allows.
I use my CD for days where I'm not sure it'll be AS soft, or think the wind effect is noteworthy in substance, or I might need a lot more camber to survive. I use my BG's as true variable/spring/lightweight/mountaineering rig.
As you likely gather, it's all touring.

Just busting your chops on the hooky PF thing (and trying to buy them), but it blew my mind. Curiosity killing my cat, but theoretically speaking, what distinction in conditions are they designed for different things .. CD vs PF, other than 'untracked all day?'

[SupreChicken]

The only problem I have with my C/D is the lack of appropriate conditions

[SkiLyft]

Adding a data point — Never skied PFs. Hated my C&Ds. Design was odd and did not jive with my style. Didn’t want to charge. Would instead hit and want to go over vs through chop. “Heavy and dead” words I felt described that ski.

To me a SG is the perfect resort pow ski, plenty wide, if it’s deep — just go faster and seek out fall line. As things recycle they just get better!


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[TexasGortex]

As depth and density change, I think you'll be pleased with how your view of the CD expands. They really are a great stick, incredibly versatile in a lot of soft snow, terrain, and pitch conditions. I think they have a much larger 'sweet spot' of snow conditions than they get credit for. I think the BG may ski variable/chop and heavier PNW snow maybe just a little better.

Aside from early season chop .. so far this year the PF has been my daily driver, the CD coming in #2 in days. In deep snow and steep open lines I will always, always, let my girls run, every day of the week. I've had strong fun with those girls .. stronger than the law allows.
I use my CD for days where I'm not sure it'll be AS soft, or think the wind effect is noteworthy in substance, or I might need a lot more camber to survive. I use my BG's as true variable/spring/lightweight/mountaineering rig.
As you likely gather, it's all touring.

Just busting your chops on the hooky PF thing (and trying to buy them), but it blew my mind. Curiosity killing my cat, but theoretically speaking, what distinction in conditions are they designed for different things .. CD vs PF, other than 'untracked all day?'

PF for lighter, more consistent, or untracked snow, CD for heavier, chopped up, and variable conditions. Basically backcountry vs resort I suppose.

They are clearly (at least in my mind) designed for different skiing styles as well: the PF are way more lively, jibby, and require more skier input, while the CD are more stable and composed. I typically err far towards the former in preference.

I spent a couple years skiing the PF a lot, including a lot of inappropriate conditions. I’m sure I’ll learn a lot about the CD as I put more days in. Especially once I get them into some real snow.

The only problem I have with my C/D is the lack of appropriate conditions

Amen to that

Adding a data point — Never skied PFs. Hated my C&Ds. Design was odd and did not jive with my style. Didn’t want to charge. Would instead hit and want to go over vs through chop. “Heavy and dead” words I felt described that ski.

To me a SG is the perfect resort pow ski, plenty wide, if it’s deep — just go faster and seek out fall line. As things recycle they just get better!


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I definitely do not think they are chargers, agreed there. Not a ski you want to attack with aggression. Which is ok by me, I don’t really like chargers and would prefer to go up and over vs through.

[Bandit Man]

I shared my thoughts thinking it might help someone. I struggled to find relevant info for the same reason and ended up a bit surprised. In the end, I think it could a good ski for more people than I would have guessed.

Fair enough.

As I mentioned, there is a lot of information about the current C&D from like 3 seasons ago but it is tough to find. A bunch of us ski them in the Cascades and have shared those thoughts and comparisons to skis like the BG. But also as I mentioned, we are lazy and just dump everything into this thread, thereby reducing the value of the info over time.

If you like a BG, you’ll probably like the C&D. One of the better “all-day/all-mtn” Pow day skis I’ve been on.

[kid-kapow]

Since I'm procrastinating really hard today, and since these might be my favorite graphics I've ever owned, here ya go:

Nice! Thanks

I've never really thought about it before, but the theme of those tops and bases atually fit really, really well together.

And we really ought to break out some of these models into their own threads. For instance, there is lots of C&D info from the past several seasons buried in this thread, but it is a pain in the ass to dig through all the graphics and “where should I mount my Jeffery’s?” banter to find it.

Yeah, this thread has become kinda unwieldy, especially as people seem unable to do pretty basic google searches. Specific BG/C&D/Jeff/and so on threads could be a way to proceed, or people could just learn that in order to learn something about a specific ski, try to first look through Iggy'd post, then isten to Blister's ON3P podcasts with Iggy or do a "site:tetongravity.com on3p (insert model/search term)"-type Google search, then ask in the thread.

Adding a data point — Never skied PFs. Hated my C&Ds. Design was odd and did not jive with my style. Didn’t want to charge. Would instead hit and want to go over vs through chop. “Heavy and dead” words I felt described that ski.

To me a SG is the perfect resort pow ski, plenty wide, if it’s deep — just go faster and seek out fall line. As things recycle they just get better!

yes, this is a good description of the differences between BGasyms and the current iteration of C+Ds too.

The wider, shofter shovels on C+Ds will not punch through variable like the narrower, stiffer shovels of BGs (even more so for SGs I imagine). C+Ds have better float, but then again - if you are going mach looney then BG/SGs do not lack for float. I can imagine this being even more true for heavier dudes who also charge.

I am a small fucker at 175cm/70kg with more enthusiasm than technique and I love C+Ds in fresh, aka drifty turns on the snow. I find it even easier to stay in longer, driftier turns on C+Ds as the softer shovels and stiffer tails makes for an easier to find balance point for how I ski. I prefer BGasyms in variable, aka punching through stuff.

BGasyms and current C+Ds have the same munt point

Attachment 285237

anyway, I can't wait to see what Iggy has up his sleeve for the next iteration of the C+D, hell a new run of PFs might come at some time too - who knows. I fondled a pair of the last iteration 191s the other day too, and man - their shape was really interesting as well. The long front rocker + slightly narrower shovels must be something else in truly deep.

[Trapp]

PF for lighter, more consistent, or untracked snow, CD for heavier, chopped up, and variable conditions. Basically backcountry vs resort I suppose.

They are clearly (at least in my mind) designed for different skiing styles as well: the PF are way more lively, jibby, and require more skier input, while the CD are more stable and composed. I typically err far towards the former in preference.

I spent a couple years skiing the PF a lot, including a lot of inappropriate conditions. I’m sure I’ll learn a lot about the CD as I put more days in. Especially once I get them into some real snow.


Amen to that


I definitely do not think they are chargers, agreed there. Not a ski you want to attack with aggression. Which is ok by me, I don’t really like chargers and would prefer to go up and over vs through.

My whole worldview is being challenged. I've never skied C&Ds, only PFs, and always thought the C&Ds would be chargers comparatively. 100% backcountry. Appreciate all the comments.

[TexasGortex]

Just to be clear, I’m not saying that it has a low speed limit, can’t handle burly terrain, or is going to let you down. It just doesn’t like an aggressive technique which is something I associate with chargers/charging. You’ll rip on these, just in a relaxed manor