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  1. #10976
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    Quote Originally Posted by WILLSKIFAST View Post
    Anyone got a photo of what the midnight top sheet looks like IRL? Curious if it differs at all from what it looks like on my phone/computer screen.

    Also, anyone have any insight as to how the ride on the BG118 would compare to the Rossignol Black Ops 118? Pretty significant difference in tail width, but having never ridden either, curious to hear.

    Appreciate you guys not lambasting me for any unwritten TGR forum rules this post may break.
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    Training for Alpental

  2. #10977
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    Oct 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by WILLSKIFAST View Post
    Anyone got a photo of what the midnight top sheet looks like IRL? Curious if it differs at all from what it looks like on my phone/computer screen.

    Also, anyone have any insight as to how the ride on the BG118 would compare to the Rossignol Black Ops 118? Pretty significant difference in tail width, but having never ridden either, curious to hear.

    Appreciate you guys not lambasting me for any unwritten TGR forum rules this post may break.
    Search this thread for BO 118 vs BG comparison. Pretty sure I dove into this with another mag last year or the year before. BO is closer to JF116. BG is closer to... nothing from Rossignol.

  3. #10978
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    Nov 2006
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    NCW
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    Quote Originally Posted by WILLSKIFAST View Post
    Anyone got a photo of what the midnight top sheet looks like IRL? Curious if it differs at all from what it looks like on my phone/computer screen.

    Also, anyone have any insight as to how the ride on the BG118 would compare to the Rossignol Black Ops 118? Pretty significant difference in tail width, but having never ridden either, curious to hear.
    Completely different skis

    Black ops is a fat park ski, more comparable to the J116 and dozens of other skis from other manufacturers.

    Billy goat is a directional ski for 3d snow and a generally unique design in the market.
    Quote Originally Posted by mfcf13 View Post
    The world needs more Donnely and less Stainless.

  4. #10979
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    Oct 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by bearcub69 View Post
    Curious about Jeffrey updates as well..

    Have a pair of out-of-commission Jmos, used to have a pair of OG kartels.. both skis had symmetrical rocker and elliptical sidecut, which I fell in love with. Picked up a pair of last years Jeffs last round of factory finds.. they don't have symmetrical rocker and have a different sidecut in the tail end of the ski, wondering how much different they will feel and if I should have gone with a wider Magnus to be more similar to the Jmos/OG Kartels
    I would be surprised if you did not find your new skis to be an upgrade on pretty much any factor other than being heavier.

    The move away from elliptical sidecut in the tails made the skis more predictable at speed and when doing turns in say spring snow where you engage the very ends of the sidecut. The elliptical sidecut made those turns a bit... eh, kicky? Squirrely? I dunno, it was not a welcome characteristic for me at least - though I have not skied the newer Jeffreys, just Kartel116s (and various wrens and woods, all with same sidecut type in the rear as the newer Jeffreys).

    Also, the rear splay is what 68mm vs 80mm up front, so still pretty substantial. I sincerely doubt you'll find it wanting.

    So, do not overthink this - your old skis were great, your Factory Finds deals were just that - killer deals for great skis. Ski em and spend the saved dollares on a post shred brew to congratulate yourself on making the right decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by jackattack View Post
    Completely different skis

    Black ops is a fat park ski, more comparable to the J116 and dozens of other skis from other manufacturers.

    Billy goat is a directional ski for 3d snow and a generally unique design in the market.
    yes, they both slay variable and are damp as a mother, but the similarities end there. If you want a BO in ON3P guise then buy Jeffrey118s, BGs ain't it.

  5. #10980
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    Apr 2007
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    1,685
    Anyone care to throw in a quick comparison between a ~2014ish Renegade and a BG?

    I love my Ren in JP but am contemplating a new 50/50 ski with cast. Am considering a Hoji but the BG is super intriguing. 110 or 118? Would the 110 actually be any less loose in variable bc snow?


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  6. #10981
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    Jun 2021
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    161
    Quote Originally Posted by kid-kapow View Post
    I would be surprised if you did not find your new skis to be an upgrade on pretty much any factor other than being lighter.

    The move away from elliptical sidecut in the tails made the skis more predictable at speed and when doing turns in say spring snow where you engage the very ends of the sidecut. The elliptical sidecut made those turns a bit... eh, kicky? Squirrely? I dunno, it was not a welcome characteristic for me at least - though I have not skied the newer Jeffreys, just Kartel116s (and various wrens and woods, all with same sidecut type in the rear).

    Also, the rear splay is what 68mm vs 80mm up front, so still pretty substantial. I sincerely doubt you'll find it wanting.

    So, do not overthink this - your old skis were great, your Factory Finds deals were just that - killer deals for great skis. Ski em and spend the saved dollares on a post shred brew to congratulate yourself on making the right decision.
    I think the OG kartels and the jeffs I got are the same weight despite being 2mm wider throughout the ski due to a different core profile.. not really worried about weight though. Only time I might notice more weight would be swing weight, but still very minimal difference.

    I never noticed the skis being squirrelly, but considering everything i've read stating that most people wont notice a difference in the sidecut, im not too worried, just curious how ill find them compared to the older ones with a slightly different sidecut, rocker profile, and flex. Its all just minimal tinkering with the aim of improvement anyways.

    As far as splay goes, when I was referencing rocker I was talking more about running length. The OG had 40.5cm rocker front and rear.. not sure what the exact numbers are now and I doubt a few cm of more rocker in the front than the rear would make me hate the ski, just pointing out what I loved about the OGs and the differences there are now. I'm not even quite sure what the splay numbers were on the OG, maybe the same tip and tail? Who knows.

    And yes for the price I paid, and even if I paid full price, ON3P still makes the best sticks, Im stoked to ride em. I dont consume post shred brews, ill spend the saved cash on another pair of ON3P or a nice post shred crab dinner.

  7. #10982
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    Oct 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by bearcub69 View Post
    And yes for the price I paid, and even if I paid full price, ON3P still makes the best sticks, Im stoked to ride em. I dont consume post shred brews, ill spend the saved cash on another pair of ON3P or a nice post shred crab dinner.
    sounds good, though a good post ride drink can be a sweet glass of carbonated water - aka something to enjoy while thinking about what a great day you just had - it need not be brewed as such, though a crab dinner sounds like a good alternative for sure

    I can't recall there being any significant changes to the depth of the rocker lines in recent years, so is there that big of a difference in lenght from contact point and forward/aft?

    and just to clarify my description above; for me it was kinda like getting these small kicks out of turns. And by kicks I mean as in getting bucked, not as in loading the tails and getting pop. Again, this was only when activating the very rear most of the sidecut in the tails in spring slush with ice underneath, where the sidecut probably hit the ice. It was my last days on said Kartel108s and they absolutely killed it in slaying the slushy corn, not just in those few, rare instances at the end of the run, in the skied out conditions just prior to the lift. So for me the change to a different sidecut in the rear made a lot of sense when announced.

  8. #10983
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    Jun 2021
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    161
    Quote Originally Posted by kid-kapow View Post
    I can't recall there being any significant changes to the depth of the rocker lines in recent years, so is there that big of a difference in lenght from contact point and forward/aft?

    and just to clarify my description above; for me it was kinda like getting these small kicks out of turns. And by kicks I mean as in getting bucked, not as in loading the tails and getting pop. Again, this was only when activating the very rear most of the sidecut in the tails in spring slush with ice underneath, where the sidecut probably hit the ice. It was my last days on said Kartel108s and they absolutely killed it in slaying the slushy corn, not just in those few, rare instances at the end of the run, in the skied out conditions just prior to the lift. So for me the change to a different sidecut in the rear made a lot of sense when announced.
    compared to my older ON3Ps that I know have symmetrical rocker length/depth, is yes the newer sticks have slightly more rocker in the front, and slightly less in the rear. So if the older ones were 40.5/40.5, the new ones might be 42.5/38.5 (just speculation on the new ones, dont know exact measurements just pointing out its probably only a difference of few cm) not necessarily a bad thing, but when I got hooked on ON3P in the past it was because of the rocker profile, and the new sticks still have a better profile than anything out there.

    And looking at a quick blister check, it seems that the 17/18 K108 had a splay of 76mm/61mm while the 18/19 K108 and 19/20 J108 have a splay of what you pointed out, 80mm/68mm. So they've been making subtle changes regarding splay and rocker depth over the past few years.

    Still not overthinking anything and will enjoy the sticks, but this thread wouldnt have 440 pages without a bit of overthinking

  9. #10984
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    Jul 2014
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    40
    thank you!

  10. #10985
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    Jan 2005
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    Portland
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    Quote Originally Posted by optics View Post
    That clear+clear is so weird and interesting - Iggy, any more shots of that??
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    There will be a lot more website-based product photography and additions to the product pages this year, but we're waiting until all the new Shopify 2.0 updates role out to our themes before we start building up again, so we're spending as little time on the website as possible until then (supposed to role out early August, so just hoping that timeline holds so we can get most everything rebuilt before Labor Day).

    Quote Originally Posted by WILLSKIFAST View Post
    Anyone got a photo of what the midnight top sheet looks like IRL? Curious if it differs at all from what it looks like on my phone/computer screen.

    Also, anyone have any insight as to how the ride on the BG118 would compare to the Rossignol Black Ops 118? Pretty significant difference in tail width, but having never ridden either, curious to hear.

    Appreciate you guys not lambasting me for any unwritten TGR forum rules this post may break.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    As everyone seem to have mentioned, BO118 is analogous to the Jeffrey 118, so if that is the style you are going for Jeffrey would be what I would focus on in terms of comparison.
    Seriously, this can’t turn into yet another ON3P thread....

  11. #10986
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    Oct 2017
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    clear + clear looks interesting for sure. Nice to see various elements.

    Quote Originally Posted by bearcub69 View Post
    Still not overthinking anything and will enjoy the sticks, but this thread wouldnt have 440 pages without a bit of overthinking
    yeah, I am probably the worst person in the thread to make the overthinking point as well as I do not just overthink my quiver, I do that times three (as my at times excessive posting in this very thread is rather indicative of).

    Still, you seemed happy with your new skis and they should be just what you are after based on your description - so thought I should do a bit of positive reinforcement rather than nuancing that could just add confusion
    Last edited by kid-kapow; 07-24-2021 at 07:22 AM.

  12. #10987
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    Nov 2002
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    ^^^Thanks Iggy. Clears copped.

  13. #10988
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Your Mom's House
    Posts
    7,183
    Quote Originally Posted by jackattack View Post
    Completely different skis

    Black ops is a fat park ski, more comparable to the J116 and dozens of other skis from other manufacturers.

    Billy goat is a directional ski for 3d snow and a generally unique design in the market.
    The closest thing to the BG that Rossi ever made was the original Squad7, and even those weren't really that similar.

  14. #10989
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    Mar 2009
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    So widest Woodsman is now 110?
    WTF?

  15. #10990
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    Dec 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuco View Post
    So widest Woodsman is now 110?
    WTF?
    Quote Originally Posted by iggyskier View Post
    On basically everything over 110-112 I'm like...
    Attachment 380114

    At least as it pertains to all things sales.
    ...

  16. #10991
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    Mar 2009
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    Yeah, I already commented on that post too
    #phatskis4ever

  17. #10992
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    Oct 2017
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    1,253
    Quote Originally Posted by tuco View Post
    So widest Woodsman is now 110?
    WTF?
    Nein, the widest is still the 116 - available through customs, just specify that it is the ski you want. So it can be ordered now / during the summer customs sale in the stock configuration with your choice of top sheet (of the ones without an upcharge) at a 20usd upcharge compared to stock.

    The widest Woodsman that is stocked is the 110.

  18. #10993
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    Mar 2009
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    Finally got my brother on board. He was gonna order some variation of W116.
    Sale killed

  19. #10994
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    Mar 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by kid-kapow View Post
    Nein, the widest is still the 116 - available through customs, just specify that it is the ski you want.

    The widest Woodsman that is stocked is the 110.
    Cool.
    As a fat ski afficiamuthafukinado,this news is still a bummer. I want a wider than 116 Woodsie

  20. #10995
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
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    1,253
    You should consider petitioning Iggy to bring back a limited run of Pillow Fights then, that is - if you want something truly fat.

    I've never seen PF irl. Does anybody know what their mount point was?

  21. #10996
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    Dec 2009
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    Portlandia
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    Quote Originally Posted by kid-kapow View Post
    You should consider petitioning Iggy to bring back a limited run of Pillow Fights then, that is - if you want something truly fat.

    I've never seen PF irl. Does anybody know what their mount point was?
    if you look at the sidecut which is pretty defined, and not very long you can get a decent idea.

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    Besides the guys at the factory I have seen 2 people on them locally, but that was some time ago. Definitely a quiver ski for a place like Hood.
    Training for Alpental

  22. #10997
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    Mar 2009
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    2,426
    Little more pintail than I prefer but......I'd ski 'em.
    Like Reincarnated Phiber said "quiver ski" and I have plenty of those.
    I would love to slay some 126-128 uf Woodsman's......as more of a DD oriented ski

  23. #10998
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    40
    Thanks to everyone for the IRL midnight pics (Iggy & Session), and for the BO comparison comments.

    Still digging for BG comparisons based on skis I've been on...seems difficult to nail down since most people put the BG's in a class of their own...and if I pull the trigger, it'll be the first time i've ever purchased a pair of brand new MSRP priced skis without ever demo'ing first...kinda nervous about the $$$ and ending up not enjoying them as much as I think I will....so, with that being said....

    Anyone know how the BG118 would compare to the most recent iteration of the J-Ski "TheFriend"?

  24. #10999
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    Oct 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by WILLSKIFAST View Post
    Anyone know how the BG118 would compare to the most recent iteration of the J-Ski "TheFriend"?
    The BG118 was launched yesterday, so I doubt you'll find much real world feedback on them

    I have not skied either (but have skied wood116s, kartel116s and BGs quite a bit), but by looking at the shape, flex profile and geo The Friend seems like something that is more in line with a more forgiving and turny Woodsman116, not a real comparable ski to BGs (other than that both are made for soft snow).

    What is it you are wanting the skis to do? Shred variable? All ON3Ps at this width does.

    The defining characteristics of the BG is its ability to pivot effortlessly while shredding variable.

    Jeffreys are a bit more supportive in the tail due to more volume out back, but still very pivoty and loose due to rocker depth and splay height. They prefer a more upright stance.

    Woodsman116s are more chargy than Jeffs and can be driven harder through the front than the other two designs, yet are still fairly loose and a ton of fun in soft snow.

    Jeff118 is the closest to BO, Wood116s is probably the closest to the Friend, just more ski, while BGs are more of their own thing. I would think that BG's looseness in soft snow is more comparable to full rocker designs than fat AM skis like The Friend or wide and very hefty park/freestyle skis like the BO, but just more capable in variable than said full rocker designs.

    You could try BG116tours - offered at a hefty discount here - to get a feel for their shape and how it skis, and then get standard layup BGs later on if you like them and want more heft. If not you can move said BG116tours on, probably at a relatively minor loss. Or give ON3P a call and get their 2cents. (Iggy = Scott Andrus, the owner - so he has already chimed in above re the BO)

    though honestly, if what you want is a loose, directional ski that excels in variable and fresh and does ok everywhere else, then BGs are hard to beat. If oyu want a fatter AM ski (you want a ski where you ride the sidecut more than BGs pivotfest) - wood116s, BO in ON3P guise -> jeff118.
    Last edited by kid-kapow; 07-24-2021 at 12:52 PM.

  25. #11000
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
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    panhandle locdog
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    Any pics of the Hawaiian Alpine or Floral Print?

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