ON3P SKIS Discussion

[PowTron]

Just buy Wren 114 and you eliminate this silly argument in your head

Best of Wren 108 and BG worlds.

[jackattack]

X4? Not Wren specific, but I skied my Q-Labs one day last week where I ended up in more fresh snow than expected. As I have done in the past I found myself thinking they are pretty damn good in powder for a 105 waist with metal. Just enough fun tip shape and tip rocker to make them punch above their waist class in the soft stuff. The next time out on the same mountain was on BG and yeah.....no comparison in powder. The Wren is the type of ski you have a good time on in powder, but it's no powder ski. Probably a good choice if you really need a 1 ski quiver, but it's never what you should choose for a powder specific ski in your quiver.

Wren and Q-lab are not really comparable imo. I had a pair of 190 labs in between two different wrens and I was only impressed by them in essentially shitfuck conditions and primo groomers. First major difference is that the lab has that wide flat stiff AF beaver tail that is very difficult to release. It forces you to carve pow instead of allowing you to surf it. Second due to the sidecut it doesn’t run flat or straight line well, something the wrens excel at. Third the shovel was quite soft and had a definite hinge point, making for a somewhat jerky ride if it wasn’t fully over on edge carving a turn. Oh and they were maybe the heaviest skis I’ve ever owned and only measured 187cm. My current wren 108 fulfills all these deficiencies, is happy making many turn shapes but mostly wants long radius charging, and it’s fun to ski in light pow. It doesn’t carve up groomers like the q lab but that’s not it’s calling.

Having owned both...If there were 100MPH winds buffing the shit out of that foot of fresh all night, and the day was going to be geared toward more wide-open and/or steeper terrain where the 'effective depth' of that foot skis like less...maybe then?

aka where jackattack and I mostly ski.

A foot of wind affected pow turning to crud? Supergoats all day.

Just buy Wren 114 and you eliminate this silly argument in your head

Best of Wren 108 and BG worlds.

I’d be down for a pair for sure, but I can’t imagine them unseating the 108 it’s a fantastic DD.

[optics]

SG vs W114 comparison questions in 3, 2,....

[Conundrum]

Just skied my K108 191s. 5" new with a little more blown in here and there. They did fine but would have preferred my BGs in the morning just because BGs are rad. Pretty chopped in the afternoon and they ruled. Next day was groomers and chop. Couldn't be happier with them. I was looking for something that could get on it when needed but fun and not needed to be wide open all the time. These are them.

[mtskibum16]

Wren and Q-lab are not really comparable imo. I had a pair of 190 labs in between two different wrens and I was only impressed by them in essentially shitfuck conditions and primo groomers. First major difference is that the lab has that wide flat stiff AF beaver tail that is very difficult to release. It forces you to carve pow instead of allowing you to surf it. Second due to the sidecut it doesn’t run flat or straight line well, something the wrens excel at. Third the shovel was quite soft and had a definite hinge point, making for a somewhat jerky ride if it wasn’t fully over on edge carving a turn. Oh and they were maybe the heaviest skis I’ve ever owned and only measured 187cm. My current wren 108 fulfills all these deficiencies, is happy making many turn shapes but mostly wants long radius charging, and it’s fun to ski in light pow. It doesn’t carve up groomers like the q lab but that’s not it’s calling.

Well first I wasn't trying to compare the two, just making the point that plenty of skis are fun on a powder day, but it doesn't mean I'd specfically choose them as my "resort powder ski" in a quiver.

Second, I have the 183 and from what I've read they are significantly different skis from the 190. Flat square tail yes, but that soft tip allows for pretty damn good float considering. Add slightly more pop to the pow turns and they were a blast even in tight trees....but not a Billy Goat, Bibby, or other pow ski blast. YMMV

Third, W108 (or maybe K108) is at the top of my list to replace the QLab in my lineup because of its qualities, but the BG is safe.

[kid-kapow]

PowTron beat me to it, but...

while W108s punch well above their width in terms of soft snow performance, the true comparison with BGs will be w114s.

I think BGs vs w114s comes down to how you like to ski. Slarvy incarnate = BG, fall line crushers = w114s. That is not to say that both can't slarve or crush the fall line, but that one will be slightly more toward the top end of the spectrum than the other, both doing pow exceedingly well. I also think w114s will be slightly more inspiring on harder surfaces at mach loony, but I might be mistaken. W114s and SG could be good comparison also, but again, I think it boils down to how one likes to ski, just for bigger or chargier dudes.

I think I will enjoy w114s more than I did my BGs. I never really clicked with the BGs to be honest, and have sold both my pairs - stupidly without trying the pair in 184 w/stiffer layup and no asym. Oh well, the k116 and w114 quiver I got in their stead will probably make me forget.

And Betel, you did what - one run on w108s until the one ski exploded after saying hello to a rock was it (?) and have been singing the song of woe about asym BGs for how long now? Excuse me if I take your take on w108s with a grain of salt (JK)

Very nice C&D photos btw - thanks for posting!

[Sessiøn]

The "OMG Asym hurt my feelings" is pretty hilarious.

[TahoeJ]

Btw - I finally skied with Betelgeuse a few weeks back and he’s a strong skier, FWIW. Since we always give him a hard time and all, figured I should mention that.

[Banh Mi]

And Betel, you did what - one run on w108s until the one ski exploded after saying hello to a rock was it (?) and have been singing the song of woe about asym BGs for how long now? Excuse me if I take your take on w108s with a grain of salt (JK)

On3p sent me another pair of Wrens after that, and I put a couple days on them. Got them in a little bit of soft. I never skied asym BGs, just SGs and C&Ds. I liked asym on the 2017 C&D. Take it however you want smart ass.

[PNWbrit]

I'd pay big money for a Grubstake per model.

[kid-kapow]

Btw - I finally skied with Betelgeuse a few weeks back and he’s a strong skier, FWIW. Since we always give him a hard time and all, figured I should mention that.

That is hardly surprising given the quality insight he usually provides

On3p sent me another pair of Wrens after that, and I put a couple days on them. Got them in a little bit of soft. I never skied asym BGs, just SGs and C&Ds. I liked asym on the 2017 C&D. Take it however you want smart ass.

A different take could have been "man, this guy remembers what I wrote months back and have been paying attention to my posts since he got on this forum, and is actually caring enough about my feedback and what I write to reference it later". Then again I guess name calling was an option as well.

This reply is not meant as being smart ass, I am just saying - in my second language and everything as well, and if the last one came across as being smart ass - well, tongue in cheek doesn't always work out now does it. And other than C&Ds you have been very consistent in voicing that asym hasn't work perfectly well for you. That reference was not a smart ass one - it was stating what you have been saying. Thanks for the correction with it being just asym though, and not BG asyms in particualr - sorry for being inprecise. And just to be clear, I have zero, null, nil issues with your opinion with asyms - not all design characteristics are for everybody - and I find your take usually very enlightening, especially when I think differently.

Moving along / water under the bridge: Good to hear you gave the w108s a few more days, but I seem to remember that you wrote that you kinda lost confidence in them after that incident - though memory might serve me poorly in that case. I know it would have knocked my confidence in a major way, so I do not blame you.

[mtskibum16]

My asym BG is the first one I've ever skied. Something was for sure different while on edge, but I can't say if it was the RES, asym, or some combination I was feeling. Much more testing is in order and I won't come close to saying they were bad or I didn't like them on firm, but they were for sure different. I did get enough turns in soft stuff to say pretty confidently that the BG is way more slarvy and less hooky than my Bibby Pros in similar conditions.

[Skeeze]

My asym BG is the first one I've ever skied. Something was for sure different while on edge, but I can't say if it was the RES, asym, or some combination I was feeling. Much more testing is in order and I won't come close to saying they were bad or I didn't like them on firm, but they were for sure different. I did get enough turns in soft stuff to say pretty confidently that the BG is way more slarvy and less hooky than my Bibby Pros in similar conditions.

I’ve skied non-asym and asym BGs. Not sure there’s a huge difference, but I assume the asym helps with slarviness. As you mentioned, they’re phenomenal at that.

On firm snow, you just need to be careful to not put too much weight on the outside edge of the uphill ski, because the shorter running length clearly doesn’t hold an edge that well. Either ski two footed and slarve you way around, or get a bunch of weight on the downhill ski and really pressure that inside edge. So basically just don’t ski badly and put too much pressure on the uphill ski.

As long as I don’t make that error, I’ve found that the asym BGs are better on firm snow than RES non-asym BGs.

[Banh Mi]

My smart ass thing was a joke. I dont know you enough to be serious. I was just called a whiney little bitch, and puss, so I didnt think it was that bad?

[galibier_numero_un]

I’ve skied non-asym and asym BGs. Not sure there’s a huge difference, but I assume the asym helps with slarviness. As you mentioned, they’re phenomenal at that.

On firm snow, you just need to be careful to not put too much weight on the outside edge of the uphill ski, because the shorter running length clearly doesn’t hold an edge that well. Either ski two footed and slarve you way around, or get a bunch of weight on the downhill ski and really pressure that inside edge. So basically just don’t ski badly and put too much pressure on the uphill ski.

As long as I don’t make that error, I’ve found that the asym BGs are better on firm snow than RES non-asym BGs.

It's more about staying centered on hard snow. Powtron clued me in to this. Even if you primarily pressure the outside ski, if your weight is forward, the inside ski is going to be squirrelly.

What I'm still trying to figure out is if there's any advantage to asym in soft snow, 'coz it's not intuitive to me in hard snow (for how I stand on skis).

The caveat is that most of my asym experience is on standard width Qs, with a short demo of last year's Goats. The required stance on both of them is nearly identical, in spite of their slightly different behavior in 3D snow.

... Thom

[kid-kapow]

hehe, no worries man. Emojis are usually pretty good at accenting statements, and can be helpful in avoiding misunderstandings



As for BGs on firm, I found them to be quite easy to ski on the piste - just not very thrilling. Being a bit more centered on them is the key. I cannot remember the outside edge of the uphill ski being an issue at all, not at all like my BMT122s that require 95% downhill ski weighting unless you want to splits midway the turn



You are correct though, the outside edge does in fact seem shorter. I always thought the asym part started after the contact points (more like after the rocker points), but I was wrong. I cannot really see it be a massive difference though with how stiff the middle part of the ski is and how long the sidecut is, but then again that might be why I being lighter do not feel it while Betel being heavier feels it bigly.

[Doremite]

Saw someone else in here post the idea. Had to steal the concept when I was visiting the in law with a sticker maker.

Attachment 262321

The quote bubble was my idea. Rad.

[rudy]

Got some new Kartel 181cm 108s and am pondering mount points. Thinking 1-1.5cm behind recommended. Thoughts/input please? (not extreme but don't want to get ripped on for not going with recommended as it seems to occur with the BG when people sway from the line)

[MHSP1497]

Got some new Kartel 108s and am pondering mount points. Thinking 1-1.5cm behind recommended

why?

[rudy]

I guess to get a bit more tip and less center mounted, closer to where my mount is on my bibbys which I like...

[CaliBrit]

Mount em on the like. I like a more traditional mount. But have my K116 on the line and love them.

[MHSP1497]

Mount em on the like. I like a more traditional mount. But have my K116 on the line and love them.

Agree w/ CaliBrit here. Normally, I like a more Trad mount but have my K98’s on the line and think it’s perfect. But, the Kartel’s are the more forgiving of the ON3P skis when it comes to mount point. If you were after a more Trad feeling ski, perhaps the Wren 108 might suit things better?

[Bandit Man]

I’ve skied non-asym and asym BGs. Not sure there’s a huge difference, but I assume the asym helps with slarviness. As you mentioned, they’re phenomenal at that.

On firm snow, you just need to be careful to not put too much weight on the outside edge of the uphill ski, because the shorter running length clearly doesn’t hold an edge that well. Either ski two footed and slarve you way around, or get a bunch of weight on the downhill ski and really pressure that inside edge. So basically just don’t ski badly and put too much pressure on the uphill ski.

As long as I don’t make that error, I’ve found that the asym BGs are better on firm snow than RES non-asym BGs.

Completely agree!


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[Bandit Man]

I noticed this “wren rules in pow” trend as well. Left me scratching my head. My billy goats come out if there’s even a chance of finding soft snow, because I would much rather struggle/slarve my way around on firm snow than struggle or sink in pow.

I think many here would agree with that sentiment.

Now every time I hear that, I think “you should try billy goats”.

I find that sentiment to be especially true for coastal snowpack like we get here in WA. However, if I lived where the water content of snow is lower, I could see the Wren 108 being enough and more versatile all around. I sold my Wren’s but still have three BG’s so you know where I stand.


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[Conundrum]

Got some new Kartel 181cm 108s and am pondering mount points. Thinking 1-1.5cm behind recommended. Thoughts/input please? (not extreme but don't want to get ripped on for not going with recommended as it seems to occur with the BG when people sway from the line)

I went on the line and am stoked. I slept on it for a few nights setting the bindings on the skis -1 and -2 before I went to bed and then looking at them in the morning. The line looks too far forward but I don’t design skis so eventually gave in and went recommended. They don’t feel divey and you can truly lay some arcs if the snow is at all soft. Haven’t tried them on hard snow yet.