ON3P SKIS Discussion

[Norseman]

I stand corrected, maybe it's more about the core profile then?

Density of core. And flexural rigidity, since a certain thickness of core is needed to hit stiffness spec without going overboard with carbon/glass

[optics]

Anyone have experience on the old tycoon and the current wren 96? Comparos?

[margotron]

I found my Woodsman 108s (new back in February) to be hooky on hard snow. The tips would engage before the rest of the ski, which made it hard to make lazy skiddy turns. Problem solved with mild detune.

nice. yeah. 99% of the time i see this on the internet i recommend a detune.

Skis arent hooky. Edges are hooky.

[f=ma]

Always exciting to see next year's lineup!

[kid-kapow]

well fekk - that post from Iggy contains to much juicy tidbits of stoke to take in at once. Can't - fekking - wait - to - see - the - range!

Also, it is kinda humbling to have the man, the myth, the legend email you in person to help resolve an issue. Good luck having that from most other skiing companies. I wrote as much in my reply to Iggy, but the idea fbehind my post was not to call out Iggy or throw shade. I was wanting to ski them a bit more to try to figure out what was the idea before bothering ON3P directly while being a bit frustrated (took a big slam Sunday due to pre-releasing Shifts (again)) so posted my findings, but perhaps the better option would have been to just touch base with Iggy&crew straight away. Oh well - we live and learn eh.

Now I have to re-read Iggy's post above

Re BG108s - how do they do on ice? My regular layup BGs are fekking terrible on ice. Sure, the premise of the question is not to go out and slay ice, but it would be nice not to feel like I am Bambi too if ice needs to be managed, especially in cruxy spots.

[Orthoski]

perhaps the better option would have been to just touch base with Iggy&crew straight away. Oh well - we live and learn eh.

I see it as a cup half full. My experience across almost a dozen pairs of ON3P skis for multiple family members has been that their build quality has been so good from the start that I presumed it was something I was doing wrong, or that I just couldn't handle the ski design (too chargy, etc) rather than thinking it's an edge bevel issue. And couldn't agree more - to have the CEO of a company reach out directly to try to solve a problem is humbling. Thanks, Scott, and looking forward to next years designs.

[Melee]

I know Luke talked about Moment switching to semi-cap having to do with the weight loss in some of their skis on one of the Blister podcasts, but my 190cm 15-16 ones (the first year they went back to the original shape, and started doing the semi-cap thing) are a little over 2300g/ski in a 190, which is really close to what the full sidewall ones weighed. Scott also posted here somewhere about how much one of their sidewalls weighs before it goes into a ski, and it wasn't a whole lot, plus he noted that a ton of that gets milled off in trim so the potential for weight savings with semi-cap was pretty minimal.

Edit: Here's the quote:



Edit #2: Moment's newer construction still has a full length sidewall, there's just a little bit of a cap at the top, so the sidewall isn't quite as high. It's not like they ditched the sidewall entirely.

Not hijacking an ON3P thread here. Just wanted to add some clarification...

First and foremost, weight was never a design criteria for Moments semi-cap implementation. The main reasoning for the semi-cap was that an opposing sharp ski edge will always win against a plastic topsheet causing chipping. We still use a full sidewall and know that our skis ride better with this design attribute than without it. As the Moment brand grows we get more and more customers who don't have great form or just like to ski with their feet together. Under these circumstances skis get chipped and scratched up then people complain after spending $750 for a pair of skis. To ensure the skis look as good as they ski after seasons of use we have done a few things like add semi-cap to all production models and use a textured topsheet which resists scratching.

Because of the way we designed our semi-cap we had to change the way the core and sidewall fit together inside the ski. This design change actually makes things better and stronger but also reduces the volume of sidewall inside the ski. Since sidewall is a fairly heavy material the ski ends up being slightly lighter if built the same as its flat top counterpart. That being said a lot of our skis have changed weights over the last 2 years (and some are actually getting heavier next year) because of some demand and other cool design advancements we have made.

Regardless, there are many ways to skin a cat. Scott and the team at ON3P make some great skis and address this issue differently and that's cool.

[margotron]

Pumped on tour BGs. I'm not going to say overdue, but the market is primed for this. Crossing my fingers for 189 comes in at a reasonable touring weight.

Scott, how's the new glass/carbon ski compared to the all glass?

[mr_pretzel]

I dont think there has ever been an all glass layup. Always carbon stringers

[m85adc]

Hyped to see if/when someone gets on the stock layup BG 108 and what they think

[kid-kapow]

There's already a few standard layup BG108s in rotation, built a few years back when ON3P also offered BG108tours aka Steeple108s. Most reviews I have seen have been very favorable, indicating unicorn ski status for the lucky few who have a pair and regret from those who sold theirs. The last Steeple108 graphic was pretty incredible as well.



And just to add some more context for my question above - another reason I ask is that BGs and C&Ds ski a bit differently wrt edge grip where C&Ds are surprisingly good on groomers for their width (I have not tried them on ice). As such I am curious what making the design narrower does for grip. Will it be grippier (in the front ski) - as is usually the case when a design gets narrower - or does RES skis counter the norm in that regard (better grip with wider skis)?

And thanks Luke for the clarification above. Can't wait to see your 2021 range as well.

[Tailwind]

My initial response was being bummed the Wren 96ti is gone... that has since faded with some curiosity about the 102ti.

Also, not a lot of chatter about the Wren 110! As someone who loves the Wren 114, I’m interested to get eyes on it. I am a little bummed by the 186cm size as I’ve been really really happy with the 189cm Wren but hopefully it’s a great ski for a lot of people!

[FullStop]

My initial response was being bummed the Wren 96ti is gone... that has since faded with some curiosity about the 102ti.

Also, not a lot of chatter about the Wren 110! As someone who loves the Wren 114, I’m interested to get eyes on it. I am a little bummed by the 186cm size as I’ve been really really happy with the 189cm Wren but hopefully it’s a great ski for a lot of people!

The 110 sounds promising for sure. My 12/13 191 Wrens are actually quite forgiving IMO, but have a very serious backbone.

[CallMeAl]

Not hijacking an ON3P thread here. Just wanted to add some clarification...

As the Moment brand grows we get more and more customers who don't have great form or just like to ski with their feet together.

I read: "As Max and I blissfully drift into our golden years together, we've become quite fond of skiing with our feet together."

Also, not a lot of chatter about the Wren 110! As someone who loves the Wren 114, I’m interested to get eyes on it. I am a little bummed by the 186cm size as I’ve been really really happy with the 189cm Wren but hopefully it’s a great ski for a lot of people!

Don't be too bummed- with the lower rocker profile and longer radius, the 186 Wren 110 Pro is going to be plenty of ski for those who dig the current 189.

[iggyskier]

My initial response was being bummed the Wren 96ti is gone... that has since faded with some curiosity about the 102ti.

Also, not a lot of chatter about the Wren 110! As someone who loves the Wren 114, I’m interested to get eyes on it. I am a little bummed by the 186cm size as I’ve been really really happy with the 189cm Wren but hopefully it’s a great ski for a lot of people!

As I said above, any of this years Wren shapes (96, 108) can be ordered on custom at standard custom pricing if you would like them. Just put a note when ordering. We have a sub-100mm option on that drawing board that we might bring to market eventually, though not sure it will be able to fit in in terms of production volume (as we expect new 102s and tour skis to take up sizable portion of production).

When we looked at where the Wrens were going and what we felt was the areas it excelled (I've not held back that I think for softer skiing conditions, the stock layup is a higher performer), dropping to what essentially is a do it all continental snowpack width just made the most sense. I personally just don't think we see enough hard snow in the PNW to take it out over the WD 108, and styles and what people look for in skis has (at least as it pertains to our sales and questions) shifted towards platforms that are a bit more modern and 'fun". The Woodsman 96 also crushed a lot of the demos that had hard snow, so with both the 96/102 available there, just made since to simplify the Wren side of the line.

As for Wren 110 - color no one here surprised. Hence the one size. We love that end of the Wren spectrum as a platform, but most skier just don't fall in that category anymore. It's sort of like the SG, in that I bet we sell a few pairs to the few people interested and then market is tapped.

Pumped on tour BGs. I'm not going to say overdue, but the market is primed for this. Crossing my fingers for 189 comes in at a reasonable touring weight.

Scott, how's the new glass/carbon ski compared to the all glass?

It's overdue but sometimes just how things work out.

So the goals of the glass were to increase stiffness & strength of the glass itself (off a 22oz baseline) - which in process would allow us to drop core weight - but also to improve the bond strength against the core. So where before we had both uni-carbon and 45/45 glass (outside the uni-carbon) on the core, now the bond surface in fully 45/45 glass. We then moved the carbon up into the 0 degree layer with the fiberglass. In that process - we removed some of the fiberglass strands to replace them with carbon, and increased the weight of the rest of the glass to account for the strands lost to the carbon and increase the strength to the overall composite.

Perk on our end now is that we also get to prep less material (though our material costs are higher). Given the cost to do this, we standardize almost the entire line to it (a few stragglers remain - CD, CM). It also means that flex changes on custom now are now done in the core profile itself, not the composites. With that, the options to adjust flex will be more limited than in the past, but will cover the flex changes we actually saw in scale (softer Magnus, softer Jeffrey being the vast majority of the changes in flex).

[CascadeLuke]

Great update Scott. Both news wise and thoughtful product line adjustments.
Do I read between the lines- any expectation the CD will drop in weight with new tour core? Maybe land 2350 ish?

ETA reread your post and see I was more inferring and hopeful than comprehending. Crossed up the new layup process for just stock and not across the line.. modified question

[RudyGarmisch]

There were a few days at Stevens where I wanted a little less ski but the Wren 114 was a lot of fun under the lifts this year. Most skiers would prefer the Woodsman 108, I agree. If you think you charge, get a Wren. Few skis have changed my skiing style like the Wren 108 on my first full season on it.

[Tailwind]

Agree with this entirely.

The 114 Wren is one of the only skis I’ve ever been on that made me a better skier. I spent a week in Jackson after New Years during a good storm cycle and only had my Wildcats and just couldn’t press them as hard as the Wrens (which were between bindings).

Also Iggy thanks for the response. Excited for the new line to drop... it’s always a question of which pairs don’t want... current want to buy list in order would be Cease and Desist, Wren 102 (or 96ti), Super Goat, Kartel 108.

So many good skis so little time...

There were a few days at Stevens where I wanted a little less ski but the Wren 114 was a lot of fun under the lifts this year. Most skiers would prefer the Woodsman 108, I agree. If you think you charge, get a Wren. Few skis have changed my skiing style like the Wren 108 on my first full season on it.

[Adrgha]

So the CD will stay with the old tour core? Makes sense, that ski is dialed as it is.

[kid-kapow]

CM?

Quality post as usual Iggy - very informative. Can't wait for the line to drop A wood102ti could be a tempting option.

And agreed, C&Ds are pretty fekking great as is.

Adrgha - sorry, I didn't see your Koala post before yesterday. Yeah, I decided fekk it - their resale value is not really going to be affected all that much by me trying them, and we got a mid May dump - so I simply could not resist. The overall plan is still to pass them on next season, but time will tell how the quiver evolves eh. Merging the BG/Wood116/Koala portion of the quiver into one ski could happen at some point - time will tell. The goal of quiver simplicity is not all the way there yet, though the narrow end is where the shoe has yet to find its perfect match.

As for the wood116s - yeah, there is def a tune issue on my pair. The base/edge transition is not flat as put forth by CallMeAl, and the base bevel could be off as well. So a retune is def in order. Good thing I have a few months to teach myself how to do said re-tune. Edge work is my main short coming wrt ski maintenance, so this should be a fine opportunity to improve my skill set

[lucknau]

Charlie Murphy?

[kid-kapow]

ah - of course. Thanks

[grinch]

There's already a few standard layup BG108s in rotation, built a few years back when ON3P also offered BG108tours aka Steeple108s. Most reviews I have seen have been very favorable, indicating unicorn ski status for the lucky few who have a pair and regret from those who sold theirs. The last Steeple108 graphic was pretty incredible as well.



And just to add some more context for my question above - another reason I ask is that BGs and C&Ds ski a bit differently wrt edge grip where C&Ds are surprisingly good on groomers for their width (I have not tried them on ice). As such I am curious what making the design narrower does for grip. Will it be grippier (in the front ski) - as is usually the case when a design gets narrower - or does RES skis counter the norm in that regard (better grip with wider skis)?

And thanks Luke for the clarification above. Can't wait to see your 2021 range as well.

I searched for 2 years for a pair and snagged some steeple 108's with that topsheet. They say "prototype" on them, whatever that means. Ski amazing as expected albeit a bit portly with g3 ion demos on them. It will either be, put some light weight atk bindings on them or put some slackcountry bindings(cast or pinding) if the new bg tour 108 sheds additional weight. In that case ill pick up the new tour108 and put the atk's on those/fingers crossed. My steeples crush the funk as good as any bg should

Sent from my SM-G950W using TGR Forums mobile app

[Quandary]

WOODSMAN
Woodsman gets new width - 102.
96 gets tighter radius + new core profile/layup.
108 gets minor sidecut tweak + new core profile/layup.
116 gets minor sidecut tweak, flex made a bit softer + new core profile/layup.
Moved the mount point back 0.75cm across the line.
Flex on 177/182 made a bit softer in all widths.

Another question for Scott, I have yet to mount my 19/20 Woodsman 116s, does this mean that it is your suggestion that I should move my mount point back .75cm from the notch?

[Joey311]

Another question for Scott, I have yet to mount my 19/20 Woodsman 116s, does this mean that it is your suggestion that I should move my point mount back .75cm from the notch?

I was wondering the same thing about my new WM96.