ON3P SKIS Discussion

[Bandit Man]

Love how the debate devolved into which ski is better in pow or PNW “pow”


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Totally relevant...I’d probably still own a Protest if I lived somewhere else.

[Bandit Man]

Update on my Woodman 108 “what the heck is wrong with this ski” situation. Got a phone call from a guy named “Scott” from the Portland area yesterday wanting to know about my experience and offering some solutions. He’s got a box and shipping label coming to me so my tune can get sorted out at the factory. Obviously, I am impressed (but not surprised) with the personal “customer obsession” approach and optimistic about getting the Woodsman 108 to work for me.

As an aside, had a fun few minutes discussing the history and various iterations of the Billy Goat with him. I think I learned a thing or two about my “collection”.

Will report back with “on the snow” impressions in the near future.

[skuff]

Update on my Woodman 108 “what the heck is wrong with this ski” situation. Got a phone call from a guy named “Scott” from the Portland area yesterday wanting to know about my experience and offering some solutions. He’s got a box and shipping label coming to me so my tune can get sorted out at the factory. Obviously, I am impressed (but not surprised) with the personal “customer obsession” approach and optimistic about getting the Woodsman 108 to work for me.

Amazing. Can you imagine if Mr and Ms Salomon or Mr and Ms Volkl gave you a call to find out if they can make your ski experience better?

Probably not

[jackstraw]

Update on my Woodman 108 “what the heck is wrong with this ski” situation. Got a phone call from a guy named “Scott” from the Portland area yesterday wanting to know about my experience and offering some solutions. He’s got a box and shipping label coming to me so my tune can get sorted out at the factory. Obviously, I am impressed (but not surprised) with the personal “customer obsession” approach and optimistic about getting the Woodsman 108 to work for me.

As an aside, had a fun few minutes discussing the history and various iterations of the Billy Goat with him. I think I learned a thing or two about my “collection”.

Will report back with “on the snow” impressions in the near future.

Why not run a true bar down it and see what is going on? Skis are a pretty simple tool.

[TunaGill]

I have mixed feelings about the BG (please don't kill me), but I need to get more days on them. Only have 2 so far. In deep soft snow they feel incredible, but when things get a bit harder - say some bumped out trees with some crud on top I find they require you to stay on your toes and be a very active pilot. You can't be lazy. They are very easy to pivot but I think that's their downside when the snow gets firmer/cruddier - if you get lazy they will literally spin out on you. This sent me face first into the ground a couple times.

Pretty much my thoughts as well.

Bought a 184 BG a few months ago and took it out for 2 days at Targhee as while back. 1st day was firm conditions next day was roughly 6" pow.

Night and day difference. Was actually kind of scared to be on the BGs the first day. Second day was heaven.

[Norseman]

Pretty much my thoughts as well.

Bought a 184 BG a few months ago and took it out for 2 days at Targhee as while back. 1st day was firm conditions next day was roughly 6" pow.

Night and day difference. Was actually kind of scared to be on the BGs the first day. Second day was heaven.

dead horse, but it needs to be mentioned once in a while in this thread... remember the sidecut shape of the RES skis: they are reverse sidecut in front of the boot. think about where the contact points are when edged on firm snow. maybe put them on the floor and see it. one should not expect them to engage like a more traditional shape; they're optimized for soft snow. once there's an inch to push around (or corn or soft pack to sink into a touch) they behave beautifully.

[Bandit Man]

Why not run a true bar down it and see what is going on? Skis are a pretty simple tool.

Sure. I still need to fix/get fixed whatever is discovered.

It is worth noting that I didn’t reach out to Scott. He reached out to me...based on the banter here. Not with an email...with a phone call. To me this is less about the skis (sure I want them to feel right) but more about Scott’s dedication for a satisfied customer. He also mentioned he was interested in gaining another data point on the issue.

I’ll just ski something else In the meantime.

[sierraskier]

dead horse, but it needs to be mentioned once in a while in this thread... remember the sidecut shape of the RES skis: they are reverse sidecut in front of the boot. think about where the contact points are when edged on firm snow. maybe put them on the floor and see it. one should not expect them to engage like a more traditional shape; they're optimized for soft snow. once there's an inch to push around (or corn or soft pack to sink into a touch) they behave beautifully.

Sorry if this has been answered already, but does the Woodsman provide the predictable edge engagement on firm that the BG lacks? Ideally, wanting something that provides ~60-70% of the soft snow performance and slarvability of a BG but with a more predictable behavior of the shovels on firmer/variable snow. Thanks.

[Sessiøn]

Maybe I'm crazy. Maybe I'm just such a shitty skier that it does not effect me. But I ski, and have skied the BG a ton. I'm sure I have owned just about every generation. I don't find the shovel unpredictable. And I ski it a lot in firmer conditions. But I ski long ass arcs when I'm on the groom with it. And I don't try and make it do turn shapes that it can't. I'm also in the camp of the steel file detuning method for tips and tails.

[mr_pretzel]

Maybe I'm crazy. Maybe I'm just such a shitty skier that it does not effect me. But I ski, and have skied the BG a ton. I'm sure I have owned just about every generation. I don't find the shovel unpredictable. And I ski it a lot in firmer conditions. But I ski long ass arcs when I'm on the groom with it. And I don't try and make it do turn shapes that it can't. I'm also in the camp of the steel file detuning method for tips and tails.

Well I like the woodsman 108 and agree with this so I’m definitely batshit crazy

[2FUNKY]

^Yep, just tip it over and stand on them, they turn just fine, albeit nice long turns which I prefer anyhow.

[Norseman]

Maybe I'm crazy. Maybe I'm just such a shitty skier that it does not effect me. But I ski, and have skied the BG a ton. I'm sure I have owned just about every generation. I don't find the shovel unpredictable. And I ski it a lot in firmer conditions. But I ski long ass arcs when I'm on the groom with it. And I don't try and make it do turn shapes that it can't. I'm also in the camp of the steel file detuning method for tips and tails.

same. i don't think they're unpredictable at all, just different than a more trad sidecut. firmer surface demands more attention to where the pressure is applied but yoobetcha they can rail

[carlh]

Saw a set of steeple 112s on faceplace with dynafit ft. Anyone been on the steeple and new tour layup? Leaning towards the new layup for weight savings but any other differences?

[Tahoepa]

Sorry if this has been answered already, but does the Woodsman provide the predictable edge engagement on firm that the BG lacks? Ideally, wanting something that provides ~60-70% of the soft snow performance and slarvability of a BG but with a more predictable behavior of the shovels on firmer/variable snow. Thanks.

Call me crazy but I could everyday my BG. Edge hold and turn variability regardless of snow is very predictable. I love how weight transfer difference morphs that ski’s turn shape.

My Wood 116’s do the same with my fore/aft shifts of weight. I do find there’s more tail hold in the latter 1/3 of the turn.

I am constantly impressed by the dampness and edge hold on both my Woods 116 and my BG’s. It’s stupid how good they are for a 116 waisted ski.

My son has a 108 Woods 177 and he usually rips past me at some point mid run on the firmer stuff. Edge hold seems good for him but he’s less of a wingnut than I am so feedback of value is tough from his 15yo brain .



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[Quandary]

Sorry if this has been answered already, but does the Woodsman provide the predictable edge engagement on firm that the BG lacks? Ideally, wanting something that provides ~60-70% of the soft snow performance and slarvability of a BG but with a more predictable behavior of the shovels on firmer/variable snow. Thanks.

Love the BG in soft snow, but have a really difficult time with the RES on hardpack/hard groomers. Which makes days you are hunting stashes a bit problematic. Consequently I add the WD 116 this year. Unfortunately the snow has sucked so bad haven't taken them out yet. But the plan is BGs on powder days, WD116 on stash hunting days. Perhaps that will change once I ski the Woodsie.

[Tahoepa]

Love the BG in soft snow, but have a really difficult time with the RES on hardpack/hard groomers. Which makes days you are hunting stashes a bit problematic. Consequently I add the WD 116 this year. Unfortunately the snow has sucked so bad haven't taken them out yet. But the plan is BGs on powder days, WD116 on stash hunting days. Perhaps that will change once I ski the Woodsie.

My thoughts exactly on my quiver......I did prefer the Woods ripping round wind buff and groomers at Mammoth last spring pre shutdown. The Woods felt more planted at my top end speed on groomers at Mammy. Def a chin scratcher each am tho when there is soft snow to be found.

Not sure if you have experience with the Praxis POW but that ski was a bastard on firm back to the lift. They ruled the soft snow but I had to intentionally bury myself on the groomed a cpl times to not auto pilot into trees.....Reverse reverse was an experience....

I never fight with my BG’s. Do opt to skid em on boilerplate but who the fuck likes carving that shit unless ur 20yo on the WC circuit.

Gotta have both if u live where it snows and there’s vert!


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[MagnificentUnicorn]

Totally relevant...I’d probably still own a Protest if I lived somewhere else.

Yes, where you ski regularly there is rarely powder snow. Calling what falls at the Cascade passes powder is a little misleading. Sure it’s deep fresh snow but it’s not usually powder.


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[dub2]

I’ve had my eyes open for a pair for Colorado low tide... post feedback when you have it.

Ripped around loveland today on the W96, so much fun! Super stable, while still being quick and loose enough for tighter spaces and bumps. They definitely like to be driven somewhat, but aren't overly demanding. Makes me want to trade my GPOs for a pair of BGs...

[jacob_dbu]

Call me crazy but I could everyday my BG. Edge hold and turn variability regardless of snow is very predictable. I love how weight transfer difference morphs that ski’s turn shape.

My Wood 116’s do the same with my fore/aft shifts of weight. I do find there’s more tail hold in the latter 1/3 of the turn.

I am constantly impressed by the dampness and edge hold on both my Woods 116 and my BG’s. It’s stupid how good they are for a 116 waisted ski.

My son has a 108 Woods 177 and he usually rips past me at some point mid run on the firmer stuff. Edge hold seems good for him but he’s less of a wingnut than I am so feedback of value is tough from his 15yo brain .



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I’m definitely interested in the W116. I find the BGs to be very predictable too. But in firmer snow I predictably wash out the tails with my current ski technique unless I stay very active to not do that.

Maybe the W116 would be a better fit for me, but I’ll def get some more days out on my BG first!

[kid-kapow]

just remember to stay somewhat centered and not drive through the shovels on BG too much, and you should be golden on anything but ice.

Yeah, BGs ain't the most thrilling carver out there, but do big, two feet arcs from a more centered stance and they do groomers just fine. Not like fresh and variable that they just devour - again, if you ride them somewhat centered. If you are "like to drive the shit out of your shovels"-type skier then BGs are not for you. Mine are terrifyingly bad on ice (not as in hard groomers, but refrozen snow turned into ice), but they did just fine at mach schnell on groomers the other day on the way back to the lift.

Woodsman116s are described aptly by Iggy as a wider all mountain ski. They are that and more. I have not been on mine since I gave them a retune and did not click with them the little I used them last year, but if woodsman108s are any guide then speed and a somewhat forward attacking stance makes them loose&fun in fresh, and strong on groomers. They ski quite differently than BGs. I expect for them to be just what the doctor ordered once my left knee is back up to speed again and I can break them in a bit. Woodsman116s should be a fair bit more versatile than BGs too, even if BGs do what they do well extremely well.

[Kopi_Red]

Yeah, BGs ain't the most thrilling carver out there, but do big, two feet arcs from a more centered stance and they do groomers just fine. Not like fresh and variable that they just devour - again, if you ride them somewhat centered. If you are "like to drive the shit out of your shovels"-type skier then BGs are not for you.

QFT

[eSock]

I gotta say I was pretty impressed with how well my in-need-of-a-tune W108s handled groomers last weekend going 50mph+. I thought it'd be a lame groomer day but instead had a blast.

[GBB]

FWIW I had a pair of woodsman 116 protos last season. They weren't my favorite skis I've been on, but I skied on them through a relatively low tide Tahoe season and had fun.

They were slightly stiffer and slightly straighter than the production models many are seemingly having issues with. Maybe I agreed with them because that type of ski typically suits my hack skiing style. Would be an interesting hypothetical to hear feedback had more folks been given the opportunity to ski the proto version I was on.

[aanev]

Woodsman116s are described aptly by Iggy as a wider all mountain ski. They are that and more. I have not been on mine since I gave them a retune and did not click with them the little I used them last year, but if woodsman108s are any guide then speed and a somewhat forward attacking stance makes them loose&fun in fresh, and strong on groomers. They ski quite differently than BGs. I expect for them to be just what the doctor ordered once my left knee is back up to speed again and I can break them in a bit. Woodsman116s should be a fair bit more versatile than BGs too, even if BGs do what they do well extremely well.

At first I did not like the Woodsman (116/187), but after giving it another try it clicked. IMHO it is one of the most balanced skis I been on - very forgiving, easy to turn, maybe even too easy.. Additionally, it does not punish imperfect technique the way Wren does. I still prefer Wrens, but the Woodsman is definitely staying in the quiver.

Give them another try and spent at least a couple of days on them.

[kid-kapow]

At first I did not like the Woodsman (116/187), but after giving it another try it clicked. IMHO it is one of the most balanced skis I been on - very forgiving, easy to turn, maybe even too easy.. Additionally, it does not punish imperfect technique the way Wren does. I still prefer Wrens, but the Woodsman is definitely staying in the quiver.

Give them another try and spent at least a couple of days on them.

Hah - funny, I nearly pm'ed you the other day to hear how you were getting along with your wood116s

Worry not, mine are going nowhere. There is a reason I sold my Koala119s - a ski I really, really liked - and kept the woods (and it is not just that I do not like DPS as a brand and love the graphics on my woods ). Wood116s ticks a lot of boxes for me and I haven't even used them in the resorts I bought them for yet, so I am a firm believer that they will ski like I want them to now post tune