ON3P SKIS Discussion

[auvgeek]

Another 2 cents... I'd argue that the RES shape handles zip crusts and all sorts of BC funk so predictably that it makes the 108 width BG a pretty awesome all-around touring ski, not just a pow shape.

Also stoked on the length updates and look forward to learning about any other developments.

Excellent point! And maybe I'd change my mind if I toured on a BGT 108 regularly.

I should also note that I'm quite biased against pin-tailed skis on steep, firm snow. The tails wash out on me, and I get sketched out thinking I'm going to spin around/get high-sided. But that same shape is amazing when the tips are pointed down the fall line.

As always, it comes down to where you tour, what you tour, who you tour with, etc. And budget. Of course, I'd own a BGT 108 if I was allowed to pick 10 new skis right now for free.

[eSock]

It could also just be the learning curve. Going from QST 99s w/ shifts to BG108T w/ Voyagers is a pretty big change in weight/style so hopefully just need more time on them.

[Norseman]

I should also note that I'm quite biased against pin-tailed skis on steep, firm snow. The tails wash out on me, and I get sketched out thinking I'm going to spin around/get high-sided.

Agreed

[eskido]

Problem is, the 189 BG 50/50 would be ideal for taking big terrain at high speed, and the Jeffrey 116 would be amazing for pow jibbing. So really, I need both...

I fully endorse this thought process

[Sessiøn]

Problem is, the 189 BG 50/50 would be ideal for taking big terrain at high speed, and the Jeffrey 116 would be amazing for pow jibbing. So really, I need both...

Anyway, just my $0.02.

[Reformed]

Excellent point! And maybe I'd change my mind if I toured on a BGT 108 regularly.

I should also note that I'm quite biased against pin-tailed skis on steep, firm snow. The tails wash out on me, and I get sketched out thinking I'm going to spin around/get high-sided. But that same shape is amazing when the tips are pointed down the fall line.

As always, it comes down to where you tour, what you tour, who you tour with, etc. And budget. Of course, I'd own a BGT 108 if I was allowed to pick 10 new skis right now for free.

Norseman and Auv's comments are bang on. Horses for courses. BGT108s aren't unicorns, and like all non-mythical beasts, they have their limitations. If I know that a tour is going to deliver hard, mostly 2D snow or a groomed ski run I select a different ski. If I'm not sure what the tour is going to deliver I take the BGT108 (Steeple 108 in my case), as it deals with such a wide range of backcountry snow conditions so well. I've never skied anything truly steep with them, but I have taken them down lots of 40+ degree chalk and refrozen spring snow without issue. I'm looking forward to seeing how much better my narrower/more firm snow oriented ski performs on those tours/objectives that warrant bringing it along.
I would also be very curious to see if a Woodsman 108 tour would deliver most of the BGT108's 3D snow performance while adding a few notches on firm. If so, this could be pretty damn close to the "one", but I bet I'd miss the pow performance of the BGTs on the best days, so that puts me back to where we started. Rod will likely be along shortly to tell us that the VW Katana IS the one, so there's that too...

[Ottime]

A while back, after a few days on the Wren 98, I said it was not so great in the bumps and the tip kept hooking up. A little detuning and several more days on snow and I want to retract my previous statement. These skis are super fun in 95% of bumps. A combination of detuning, staying more on top of the ski (been recovering from shoulder surgery and just go the okay to fall), and being aware that my tails are going to drive trough, and these things are super fun. My Wildcats, a full cm wider, are a little easier to slarve, but not as strong. They are superior in the deep slush, but in everything else that I've skied at Mammoth this week, from winter buff and windblown to spring firm morning groomers and corned everything the Wrens excel. Super fun ski and they do fine in the 8" slush lines, just a little less surfy.

[goolick]

How y'all have so many issues with tuning? Every other post in this thread is about how people are sending their skis back to the shop or ON3P to get their skis retuned. You are so dialed in that the slightest difference in your skis' edges means everything. That or you suck at skiing.

[beeeom]

you suck at skiing.

FYP

[Sessiøn]

How y'all have so many issues with tuning? Every other post in this thread is about how people are sending their skis back to the shop or ON3P to get their skis retuned. You are so dialed in that the slightest difference in your skis' edges means everything. That or you suck at skiing.

I have had a couple of wrens that I could not get to work for me. However I know it wasn't the ski, It just wasn't the right ski for me. Because I'm aware that I suck at skiing. I have actually had to restrain myself from taking a third try at Wren's.

While there was an acknowledged issue with some skis. I would say most of the issues people are having is their buying the wrong ski for their style of skiing, and then expecting that ski to conform to them.

[kid-kapow]

Re ON3P's touring skis. I have a few more days on both BG108tours and Woodsman108tours now, if still “only” in resorts (both on and off piste) for max descending. Both are mighty fine skis and I am very happy that I bought both.

The usual disclaimers:
1) lots of words (under) so perhaps not the best at describing what I mean in a precise manner
2) I am a lighter smaller guy (175cm/66kg) with more enthusiasm than proper technique, so no ex-racer clyde by any stretch
3) do not buy these touring skis thinking they will have the same umph in variable as regular layup skis. They do not. But, they do pack a lot more umph than their weight suggests. So, if you want a lighter, rounder flexed ski for resort use then buying the one of ON3P's touring skis (or 50/50 skis) that fits how you want to ski and mounting them with either hybrid or alpine bindings could be worth a consideration. I mean, certain brands like Atomic and Völkl have entire lines aimed at the light resort ski segment. Anyway, back to the touring skis.

BG108tour in 184:
BG108tours are a hoot in soft snow, be it dry, moist or sun baked.

I think they will be a great corn ski when that part of the season come upon us (hell, they should be a riot for spring skiing in general, if a bit meh on refrozen icy snow). Sure, there are other skis that are more engaging/ lively / fun to ski if you want to engage the entire sidecut on edge / carve, especially on harder surfaces. However, if it is more a case of schmearing your way down the hill by getting the tails to release or by checking speed by pivoting your skis while still facing fall line then they are a ton of fun. They do not need a lot of speed to be fun. The tails are pure bliss in all kinds of moist hot pow / slush, more so than Woods'.

So def consider these if you want a quicker edge to edge BG, just don’t expect a ski that is super engaging/lively to carve with on hard snow. I would be hard pressed to find much room for improvement on them to be honest - for what they are they are pretty damned dialed.

Woodsman108tours in 182:
Woodsman108tours are just awesome imho.

They ski a bit differently than my first gen woods108s though. Their lighter weight and rounder flex makes them really easy and fun to throw around, and the front part of the ski engages a bit more easily - if you want them to (they are not turny). They are def a bit more mellow than the regular layup ones (not that the regular ones are monsters).

I have compared their forgiving nature in soft snow to MFree108 182s in previous posts and stand by that. That being said, I prefer Woodman108tours’ stronger front ski to MF108s softer ones. This makes wood108ts feel a bit livelier and stronger on edge on hard snow, where I find that MF108s can feel a bit vague or soft if you lean into them (important disclaimer: MF108s are still plenty capable and can be skied harder than my description gives them credit for - they front part of the ski just feels a bit different). Sure, they do not have the mass or same stability in variable snow as either MF108s or regular W108s, but are still a lot of fun. Woodsman108/108tours are also better if you favor a slightly more forward stance, while I prefer to ski MF108s a bit more centered. I am a bit uncertain if MF108s have a bit less torsional stiffness due to all the PU in their construction, or if it is a more camber + soft tips/tails thing I am feeling. I dunno - I just know that I prefer woods108s.

The only condition that I have not loved Woodsman108tours in is in deeper, moister snow at slower to medium speeds. Like MF108s they can get a bit bogged down then, that is – a ski with stiffer shovel and tail (like regular wood108) is a bit easier to pivot and maintain speed (that is not to say that they struggle or are bad in this kind of snow, just that I prefer how certain other skis ski in this kind of snow).

But all in all, I really, really like woodsman108tours - Iggy&crew really tweaked the already strong Woodsman108 into something really quite good wrt weight and stiffness (flex pattern and torsional stiffness) when making the tour version. I would expect the 2022 version to be even better.

Wren tours?
I also think that Wrenegade 96/102/108 in the touring layup should tick a lot boxes for a lot of folks and could be worth a consideration. That shape and mount point should lend itself really well to touring use imho, as well as perhaps being more comparable to traditional touring skis than woods or BGs – even if their radius is a bit longer than the norm perhaps. I really get along with wrens for certain uses though, so I might be a bit biased toward thinking it would be a good idea

[CallMeAl]

I already PM'd esock about this but I figured I'd throw this out there in case anybody else is experiencing second thoughts on their BG108T purchase-

I've got a pair of 187 Woodsman 108 tours that I'll trade for your 184 or 189 BG108 tours. Custom yellow, drilled once for Tectons @300mm. Not looking to sell or trade for anything else.

I love my WD Tours, but I also have some stock 187WD108s with casts on them as a DD, so mega overlap here. I also have stock 184 BG 116ss with casts, and I just f'n love RES in all variable snow and think the 108 width w/RES has potential to be will be a corn/suncrust killer.

[phatty]

Hey Al, any demo fleet sales this year?

[CallMeAl]

Hey Al, any demo fleet sales this year?

Negative, I didn't do any demos this year, so no demo fleet.

I actually started a new full time, year-round job in January in the camping/outdoor industry, so probably won't be doing demos next year either, but still staying involved with Iggy/ON3P where and when I can!

[phatty]

Negative, I didn't do any demos this year, so no demo fleet.

I actually started a new full time, year-round job in January in the camping/outdoor industry, so probably won't be doing demos next year either, but still staying involved with Iggy/ON3P where and when I can!

Congrats on the new gig! We'll definitely miss your hand me downs.

[RudyGarmisch]

I would also be very curious to see if a Woodsman 108 tour would deliver most of the BGT108's 3D snow performance while adding a few notches on firm. If so, this could be pretty damn close to the "one", but I bet I'd miss the pow performance of the BGTs on the best days, so that puts me back to where we started. Rod will likely be along shortly to tell us that the VW Katana IS the one, so there's that too...

As someone who’s toured on woodsmans and BG tours this year, it’s the RES and variable snow performance that you will miss moving to a woodsman tour.

Woodsman tour isn’t a bad tour stick at all, but the RES on the BG is just too good for the variable funky snow.

[the_flying_v]

How y'all have so many issues with tuning? Every other post in this thread is about how people are sending their skis back to the shop or ON3P to get their skis retuned. You are so dialed in that the slightest difference in your skis' edges means everything. That or you suck at skiing.

As a former tuner, edges mean everything.

Had a very grabby, sticky, slow feeling when my BG108s were on edge. Not hooky, just super slow. Belt, side edge, stone, Taos Ski Valley’s only real ski tuner on the bevels and boom. Skied great after that.

I’m just not finding that spot in my quiver needed to be filled. Between Wren 96ti and 14/15 BG, I don’t need a 108 waisted ski (as much as I really WANT it).

Enjoy them CascadeLuke!

[Ottime]

How y'all have so many issues with tuning? Every other post in this thread is about how people are sending their skis back to the shop or ON3P to get their skis retuned. You are so dialed in that the slightest difference in your skis' edges means everything. That or you suck at skiing.

So if you noticed you found the tips of a ski to hook up before you wanted them to, you would do nothing? Sounds like you suck at maximizing your gear. Fuck dude. I took a Diamond to the tip of the ski cause they were still pretty sharp where the rocker lifted off the snow. Two minutes of work and it works much better for me. And I need all the help I can get cause I suck at skiing.

Took the Wren out again yesterday after day on the Wildcats. Back to back the Wren is quite a bit more demanding but can rail the packed snow way better. And it does just fine in the slush. While a little narrow for my taste in true slush, it’s stiffness just powers through.

[goolick]

So if you noticed you found the tips of a ski to hook up before you wanted them to, you would do nothing? Sounds like you suck at maximizing your gear. Fuck dude. I took a Diamond to the tip of the ski cause they were still pretty sharp where the rocker lifted off the snow. Two minutes of work and it works much better for me. And I need all the help I can get cause I suck at skiing.

Took the Wren out again yesterday after day on the Wildcats. Back to back the Wren is quite a bit more demanding but can rail the packed snow way better. And it does just fine in the slush. While a little narrow for my taste in true slush, it’s stiffness just powers through.

I would just just take a file or gummi stone to it. Not conclude the ski had been built wrong.

[kid-kapow]

How y'all have so many issues with tuning? Every other post in this thread is about how people are sending their skis back to the shop or ON3P to get their skis retuned. You are so dialed in that the slightest difference in your skis' edges means everything. That or you suck at skiing.

I would just just take a file or gummi stone to it. Not conclude the ski had been built wrong.

I honestly do not get what it is that you hope to get out of these posts.

So to be charitable - is it to urge people to be better to tune their own skis themselves and be more patient in figuring out how to ski a given ski, not give up on them (the advice being based on the assumption that the mags in question are not both experienced skiers and/or tuners) - just formulated through a douch / everybody else are idiots / i am superior human being+skier filter?

If so, valid point, if worded rather poorly.

[cocoapuff]

Been resisting comment after only two days on them but must say I am quite pleased with my impulse purchase on some purple BG 184s from recent factory sale. Been on Wrens, Woods, and Jeffs to varying degrees the last 6-7 years and feel like I finally found my ski. While all those skis have strong merit in their own rights, the ability to drive BGs in chop and open terrain whilst still being super pivoty and wiggly in tight is a rare paradoxical concoction indeed (beat dead horse). Yes the Wrens have a higher top end and grab better on groomers but they wear me out in trees. And yes the Jeffs are super fun and feel more balanced but I cant lean into them and autopilot through chop without feeling like im going over the handle bars. The BGs felt almost too easy in 3-5" on sun crust. Skiing top to bottoms I hardly felt out of breath. I've even come to terms with the heinous paint job (no offense to whoever built these out it has in fact grown on me). Can't wait to get them in true winter conditions next season and Ill likely be adding some BG108 Tours to the lineup. Thanks to this forum for finally getting me onboard.

[Brasso]

Heinous? That purple is awesome. Glad to see it go to a mag.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

[phatty]

I'm digging that purple. Another Mag finds that BG magic.

[Quandary]

I would just just take a file or gummi stone to it. Not conclude the ski had been built wrong.

I assume you have sufficient comprehension to understand that "built wrong" and "bad tune" are rather different concepts? I don't believe I have ever read a post here where someone has said their ON3P ski was "built wrong".

[MHSP1497]

Been resisting comment after only two days on them but must say I am quite pleased with my impulse purchase on some purple BG 184s from recent factory sale. Been on Wrens, Woods, and Jeffs to varying degrees the last 6-7 years and feel like I finally found my ski. While all those skis have strong merit in their own rights, the ability to drive BGs in chop and open terrain whilst still being super pivoty and wiggly in tight is a rare paradoxical concoction indeed (beat dead horse). Yes the Wrens have a higher top end and grab better on groomers but they wear me out in trees. And yes the Jeffs are super fun and feel more balanced but I cant lean into them and autopilot through chop without feeling like im going over the handle bars. The BGs felt almost too easy in 3-5" on sun crust. Skiing top to bottoms I hardly felt out of breath. I've even come to terms with the heinous paint job (no offense to whoever built these out it has in fact grown on me). Can't wait to get them in true winter conditions next season and Ill likely be adding some BG108 Tours to the lineup. Thanks to this forum for finally getting me onboard.

Welcome to the cult of RES... it’s damn magical.