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  1. #8301
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    PNW
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    389
    Quote Originally Posted by litespeed View Post
    I ski at tline on mount hood rn. On the icier days I usually stay in the park, hit some jumps, maybe throw in a spin or something. Would I be better off with something more like the Jeffrey/Kartel?
    Based on this, I'd say the BG is probably not a great one ski quiver. It really depends on when and how often you ski. For me I don't get to ski as much as I'd like so I make my days count and basically go when it snows. So in my case the BG really is my one ski quiver. But if I skied every weekend regardless of conditions, I wouldn't want to spend hardpack days on the BG. So if that's you, I think the Kartel/Woodsman 108 is probably a better bet. If you really want to prioritize soft snow days and can only have one, then maybe bump up to the 116s.

  2. #8302
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    Nov 2006
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    NCW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    Tychoons rip the normal (edgeable) west coast firm. I'm sure the more modern narrow Wrens do, too.

    Kopi, jack: have you guys tried a metal Wren? Bet they grip like crazy. And can also venture off the groomer, unlike some wannabe race-dweeb euro pistebanger ice shaver emo wrist slicer slalom whatevers.
    Tychoon has a relatively flat tail, correct? I have a pair of 191 w114's in the rafters that need a remount. I'm thinking about taking them out on a firm day just to see how they do. The 186 wren 102 I owned was a respectable carver if I could get an edge in.

    I actually found the metal wren to feel VERY similar to its bamboo/glass counterpart. If anything it actually hand flexes softer longitudinally, but on snow, it's nearly the same experience with additional damping; likely the reason that the non-metal version is being discontinued. I skied the 189 metal wren 108 on firm rained-on frozen granular. Edges were factory fresh, no de-tune. Other non-wannabe race-dweeb skis I found held a better edge in those conditions include the new Katana 108, K2 MB108, mfree 108 (barely), mpro 99, Stockli SR95. The Stockli is in another class but definitely more freeride than race-dweeb. I'd venture a guess that increased lateral stiffness is the common feature of the 3 108's.

    I really dig the Wren 108. I estimate I have 70-80 days on my pair. It's the closest thing to a 1-ski quiver I own. It just doesn't "rail" firm in the traditional sense. The transition from soft to firm is not as predictable as I'd expect from metal chargers like the OGLP, LPR, Monster series, etc., but those skis are less fun in conditions that the Wren excels in, such as deep 3d snow, billy goating through the trees over rocks, etc.

    My earlier comment was just to point out that your generic deeply-rockered wood core ski is not going to maintain it's composure on wind-scoured firm patches and bumps as well as the alternatives, but the compromise is worth it. Setting a more aggressive bevel so they hook up on firm surfaces defeats the purpose of the ski IMHO. I want mine loose and predictable: 100% slarve.

  3. #8303
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    Oct 2005
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    Idaho
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    8,371
    Careful. We’re on the “333” page of this thread.

  4. #8304
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    745
    Wren114s - fekking hell... Why have I not spent more time on them this year? It is a simply sensational ski.

    They are the same as wren108s, aka easy to handle in soft snow. They want to go fast, and are able to pick up speed like its nobodys business. The tails makes em pick up speed awesomely imho, and the front of the ski just rails where the tails follows through awesomely. I am on the short 179 version as well, so man - the 184s and 189s must be fekking rockets in the right terrain.

    Today was the first time I took them out in dense, cold, windblown fresh two days after the last storm cycle. The snow for once was not overly moist. In these conditions they were absolutely sensational. Long turns, hard powder carves/slashed, jumps, tracked out shit - they owned it all.

    I rode them back to back with BGs. It kinda surprised me how much more centered one has to be on BGs to make them ride like they are supposed to. Wren114s are a lot less sensitive to rider position imho, though back seat riding is not encouraged. Wren114s prefer attacking - be it driven or from a more centered stance, either works imho.They/Wren114s even slayed firm snow / perfectly groomed groomers with a vengance - which surprised me.

    I also think there is room in the quiver for both BGs and Wren114s. The former is looser and better when riding unknown terrain fast, where you need to easily dump speed and be nimble. Wren114s are fantastic when one knows the terrain (or have balls of steel) and simply want to rip.

    This ski need to be in the line - it is fantastic imho. It should at least be on the site, so that people can custom order them easily. Running it with last year's graphic or wren108s relabeled could be a way to go if you decide to stock a few. But I agree - these should have been a bigger deal.

    Thank you Iggy for making this ski! My BG/C&D stoke has been through the roof lately - especially C&D - but man, wren114s are just something else.

    Quote Originally Posted by litespeed View Post
    I ski at tline on mount hood rn. On the icier days I usually stay in the park, hit some jumps, maybe throw in a spin or something. Would I be better off with something more like the Jeffrey/Kartel?
    Short answer -> Yes.

    Slightly longer: BGs can spin for sure, but if you like to hit jumps / be playful and plan on hitting the park Jeff/Kartels make a ton more sense imho. BGs are not magical on ice. It would not even be on my list for one ski quiver candidates, and I am very fond of my BGs.

  5. #8305
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    Feb 2013
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    PNW
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    Well you apparently own every ON3P made so obviously you can't be relied on for 1 ski quiver decisions.

  6. #8306
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    On the mountain
    Posts
    472
    Quote Originally Posted by iggyskier View Post
    Out of curiosity have you skied the Jeffrey 116? Mostly just curious because I find it fascinating that people see certainly models differently - even though models like the Jeffrey 116 is really just a long chain of ebbs and flows in the same model platform (Caylor, Jeffrey 114/116/122).
    I have not skied the Jeffrey 116 yet, I should probably grab a pair from the factory demo fleet and A/B them with the Caylors. I love the playfulness of the Caylors, they’re way more “fun” than my older Kartel 98’s were, although those were very custom (stiffer carbon, 22oz glass, wood veneer). The 98’s were more “all business” whereas the Caylors are way more “silly,” I guess. Like Tuco, I ride the Caylors on firm days too (they were my go-to early season ski this year at Timberline) but I picked up some Wildcat 108’s this year to give a try for those days (not overly impressed, they’re fine, but I might go back to Jeffrey’s next year).

  7. #8307
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    BC
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    665
    Quote Originally Posted by MHSP1497 View Post
    I have not skied the Jeffrey 116 yet, I should probably grab a pair from the factory demo fleet and A/B them with the Caylors. I love the playfulness of the Caylors, they’re way more “fun” than my older Kartel 98’s were, although those were very custom (stiffer carbon, 22oz glass, wood veneer). The 98’s were more “all business” whereas the Caylors are way more “silly,” I guess. Like Tuco, I ride the Caylors on firm days too (they were my go-to early season ski this year at Timberline) but I picked up some Wildcat 108’s this year to give a try for those days (not overly impressed, they’re fine, but I might go back to Jeffrey’s next year).
    You need to try the J116. All the goodness of the caylor but in a package that is better on hard snow and has better swingweight.

  8. #8308
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    Feb 2015
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    71
    Quote Originally Posted by kid-kapow View Post
    Wren114s - fekking hell...
    Your reviews are very helpful! Thank you!

    P.S. I would appreciate a comparison between Wren114 and Woodsman116?

  9. #8309
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    745
    Quote Originally Posted by mtskibum16 View Post
    Well you apparently own every ON3P made so obviously you can't be relied on for 1 ski quiver decisions.
    If directed at me, then LOL It made me laugh regardless.

    My one ski quiver would actually be a Blizzard Rustler 11 180 w/Shifts. They do not have the same ride feel and bombproof construction as an ON3P, but do a lot of things really well. Jeffrey108s (or 116 in snow rich locations) might be the obvious quiver of one in ON3P's lineup, though I might have opted for wood116s (or 108s) perhaps mounted slightly back. Wren108/114s are amazing skis as well, but not the best at going super slow. Dunno. Too many awesome skis in ON3P's lineup.

    Quote Originally Posted by aanev View Post
    Your reviews are very helpful! Thank you!

    P.S. I would appreciate a comparison between Wren114 and Woodsman116?
    Calling the musings above a review is overly generous imho - more like biased stoke

    Good question - I will see if I can use wren114s and wood116s back to back this weekend. I will report back once I do. I haven't skied the latter in a little time. I seem to recall them being a bit looser and even easier to ski, yet still very, very capable in tracked out soft snow.

    To be fair, in really moist and dense fresh snow I found wren114s tails to lock in a bit (too much). While it is something one can easily adjust to - especially if one uses them all the time instead of flip flopping between x amount of skis like I do, I luckily had BGs in the car so just swapped.

    Wren114s fixes what made me fall out of love with my initial pair of skis - Lib Tech Pow NAS 181s in the original bomber construction. Being about a full centimeter narrower in the tails and shovels both, wren114s feel a lot more balanced and easier to throw around and break free while retaining awesome float in soft snow. The Libs had a bit too much lift in the tail imho, and while they could really slay groomers better than a 115mm ski should be able to, they could feel a bit unbalanced (like one one would fly over the tips) in certain types of soft snow. Wren114s can't make as snappy hard snow turns on hard snow (at least when I use them), but feels spot on in soft snow - especially if one can let them loose.

    Quote Originally Posted by MHSP1497 View Post
    ... I picked up some Wildcat 108’s this year to give a try for those days (not overly impressed, they’re fine, but I might go back to Jeffrey’s next year)....
    Agreed.

    Considering all the hype I must admit to being somewhat underwhelmed wrt wildcat108s so far. I dunno, they could be a fun easter ski. Though to be fair, the Jeffrey108 is an absolutely fantastic easter/slush/bumpy/corn snow ski imho.

  10. #8310
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Los Angeles/Mammoth
    Posts
    801
    Hola ON3Pers. Venturing out of the Moment thread for some feedback on ON3P titanal builds. Had a pair of 17/18 Wren108 189s a couple years back that i liked, but thought the flex was a touch soft, and was happy to see they stiffened it up in the most recent iteration. I am now searching for a new directional 108 ski, and have come back to the Wren108Ti, think it might be good fit.

    Have done some searching through here on the difference between the normal build, and the titanal build, but this thread is MASSIVE and was hoping for some help summarizing the differences between the two. Leaning towards titanal for increased dampness and edgehold.

  11. #8311
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    NCW
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    2,468
    Quote Originally Posted by jdadour View Post
    Hola ON3Pers. Venturing out of the Moment thread for some feedback on ON3P titanal builds. Had a pair of 17/18 Wren108 189s a couple years back that i liked, but thought the flex was a touch soft, and was happy to see they stiffened it up in the most recent iteration. I am now searching for a new directional 108 ski, and have come back to the Wren108Ti, think it might be good fit.

    Have done some searching through here on the difference between the normal build, and the titanal build, but this thread is MASSIVE and was hoping for some help summarizing the differences between the two. Leaning towards titanal for increased dampness and edgehold.
    increased stiffness is not really noticeable IMO based on a direct comparison of well-used 17/18 189 w108 and new 19/20 189 w180ti.
    increased dampness - yes
    increased edgehold - eh see above.

  12. #8312
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    1

    Amazing Customer Service

    Some how was able to snap my jeffreys while on vacation at Snowbird. Called On3p and they're shipping me some skis to the hotel Im staying at. Just wanted to say that On3p's are amazing and there customer service is just as good. Probably never getting another brand of ski.

  13. #8313
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    North Vancouver
    Posts
    1,064
    Quote Originally Posted by jackattack View Post
    LOL at all you dudes expecting your ON3P’s to rail hard pack. It’s not the tune. Get them in the air over the hard stuff.

    You need a heavy stiff metal laminate euro ski for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by jackattack View Post
    They’re certainly not optimized for it.

    Just sick of people posting here complaining that their on3ps are rad everywhere but wind scoured hardpack and refrozen bumps. That’s NOT the design goal from my perspective.
    I could not agree more. But then maybe my idea of hardpack is skewed? "Hardpack" is all relative. Anything soft enough to get an edge into they do just great. But every other ski in my quiver (except my touring skis) have "Monster" in the name so my expectations are not necessarily skewed, I just have a different definition of railing hardpack.

    When I bought these I was tired of 110+ wide resort pow skies for the moisture dense "pow" we get in the PNW. I felt there was zero benefit to the 110+ width and the ankle torque on lumpy, typical, "warm" hardpack for these parts just was too suck getting to the lift. I felt narrower, directional, and hugely rockered and splayed, just like a W108, would deliver here and I could not have been more right.

    I'm mounted -1 on '18 184's and for deep days they are perfect out here as a pow or deep cut up ski. You can tell they are made and tested in then optimized for an area with identical conditions. Personally, I would never consider W108's a daily driver unless it snowed everyday. But then, FWIW, I am the euro metal laminate type when it comes to true daily driver.

  14. #8314
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Driving2VT
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    3,416

    ON3P SKIS Discussion

    Got into 4-6” of untracked smooth cream w my Woodsman 96 today and my lord. Hadn’t gotten them in anything soft yet and they were in their element. Chargey-loosey a ski word?

    Still may be a Wren guy but if you like a little ease to your approach and longer slarve playfullness feel this ski is a dream.
    Uno mas

  15. #8315
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Wasatch
    Posts
    828
    Quote Originally Posted by Doremite View Post
    Got into 4-6” of untracked smooth cream w my Woodsman 96 today and my lord. Hadn’t gotten them in anything soft yet and they were in their element. Chargey-loosey a ski word?

    Still may be a Wren guy but if you like a little ease to your approach and longer slarve playfullness feel this ski is a dream.
    Alpine or tele?

  16. #8316
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    Jun 2005
    Location
    Driving2VT
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    3,416
    Telemark. So smooth.

    Never got a call on those Wren 98s. No worries if you chose a different direction - just to be sure you didn’t think I blew you off.
    Uno mas

  17. #8317
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    389
    Quote Originally Posted by kid-kapow View Post
    If directed at me, then LOL It made me laugh regardless.
    Ha yes I was. Seems like you own just about the whole lineup. I’m envious!

  18. #8318
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,779
    Quote Originally Posted by iggyskier View Post
    Out of curiosity have you skied the Jeffrey 116? Mostly just curious because I find it fascinating that people see certainly models differently - even though models like the Jeffrey 116 is really just a long chain of ebbs and flows in the same model platform (Caylor, Jeffrey 114/116/122).






    Ski tune is personal - so if you want sharper edges I say do it. One additional comment - be mindful of how you pressure your skis too. If you are someone trying to engage way up in the tips like a far less rockered ski, the rocker will make it impossible to do so.

    Even with this tune - we hear more from people who continue to detune their skis further than what we send them out with (I'd say 3 to 1). See the post below.

    That applies to all our employees who gummi a lot more - and Alex might be able to hop in and confirm this regarding his MT demo fleet - but he has been detuning further even for their continental snowpack.

    We do the best we can for a best fit tune for our customer base - which as most people here know isn't the same as the larger brands. But even a best fit tune is still going to fail to fit a lot of people.

    So, if you want to go sharper, do it. I know some people like to go 1/2 on the Wrens too. My comments are to leave anything beyond the effective edge fully rounded - it has no function sharp - and to make sure you have some blending between the end of the effective edge and the end of the running length. Most shops send our skis out way too sharp and we end up having to help people get their skis back to where they were, so just be mindful most shops - even if you tell them to keep it in mind - will oversharpen (ie - tuning beyond the effective edge) and under-detune how our skis like to ski.
    ]
    I'm aware of the lineage. Caylor has bigger radius and at least less tip/tail taper. Stiffer too?
    But, fair enough. Bring back the Jeffrey 122


    As far as tunes. Some squirrelly tunes do make it out. My SG's were damn near unskiable on anything packed. Way to edgey. 1st rebevel made them light years better, but still not to where I want them. It wasn't the edges being too sharp or the detune either. More like there was just no bevel at all.

  19. #8319
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    Mar 2009
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    1,779
    Quote Originally Posted by mr_pretzel View Post
    You need to try the J116. All the goodness of the caylor but in a package that is better on hard snow and has better swingweight.
    Not sure I need better hardpack performance w/ this platform. For better hardpack performance, I'd go Wren(or my Monsters)

  20. #8320
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    PNW
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    389
    Jeffery 122 would get me a bit excited too. I'd like something fat and playful for some lower angle type stuff without having to go buy a floppy noodle pow ski. Though really that may be the answer for said terrain.

  21. #8321
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    854
    Click image for larger version. 

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    My quiver update.

    184 K2 Mindbender 99ti

    189 Billy Goat

    187 Woodsman 108

    186 ON3P Proto Jeffrey 114 w/experimental sidecut

    190 Rocker2 108 w/guardian


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  22. #8322
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    759
    Quote Originally Posted by 123ski View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    186 ON3P Proto Jeffrey 114 w/experimental sidecut
    https://youtu.be/ddUpnF0Epdc

  23. #8323
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    389
    Quote Originally Posted by 123ski View Post

    My quiver update.

    184 K2 Mindbender 99ti

    189 Billy Goat

    187 Woodsman 108

    186 ON3P Proto Jeffrey 114 w/experimental sidecut

    190 Rocker2 108 w/guardian


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    SO....Woodsman vs BG sizing question. Being a 189 BG guy, what do you think of the 187 Woodsman? How does the size of the Woodsman feel in relation to the BG? What about stability and maneuverability?

    I'm kind of between sizes (187 and 182). Conventional TGR wisdom would tell me to size up, but I ski (and LOVE) the 184 BG. So if you're happy with how your 187 Woodsman compliments your 189 BG then maybe I should be thinking 182 Woodsman to go with my 184 BG.

  24. #8324
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Wasatch
    Posts
    828
    Quote Originally Posted by Doremite View Post
    Telemark. So smooth.

    Never got a call on those Wren 98s. No worries if you chose a different direction - just to be sure you didn’t think I blew you off.
    Nice, if you ever find yourself in Utah with those, gimme a shout! I would love to trade a couple runs with one of my rigs and see how they ride. The Woodsman seems like a great ski for telemark as it a bit softer and less chargy than wrens and goats. 96 is a great width/weight for long days of not-so-deep pow.

    And no worries on the wrens - went a different direction.

  25. #8325
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    139
    Quote Originally Posted by mtskibum16 View Post
    SO....Woodsman vs BG sizing question. Being a 189 BG guy, what do you think of the 187 Woodsman? How does the size of the Woodsman feel in relation to the BG? What about stability and maneuverability?

    I'm kind of between sizes (187 and 182). Conventional TGR wisdom would tell me to size up, but I ski (and LOVE) the 184 BG. So if you're happy with how your 187 Woodsman compliments your 189 BG then maybe I should be thinking 182 Woodsman to go with my 184 BG.
    I find that 187 WD108 pairs really well with the 184 BG

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