ON3P SKIS Discussion

[SupreChicken]

Mattig,

Not a lot to offer here, but I have have been riding the 191 Billy since first run and am now on 193 std layup DGs... I will be heading to Bach early April for my annual Bach/Bend trip and I believe you make it there every now and than and if it works I will have no problem lending for the day... I will have my 108 Wrens in tow as well...

Also, because of all the cred I give to several posters here I had to give the 190 Bibbys ago and bought a pair... Skied them for one day and never clicked and never knew what all the excitement was about... Skis were sold... No doubt they get major kudos on the board, but did not scratch the itch for this cat... Hell I own 191 116 Kartels as well and connected with them immediately so for me it must be an ON3P thing...

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Huh. Where’s the 191 BG vs 191 k116 comparison review?

[slowroastin]

Im selling my Wren98 189’s custom black topsheet. Check gearswap for the listing if interested.


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[Bobcat Sig]

But the real props goes to that red fartbag!

Oh, but that’s a two-piece. My farts need to breathe and share to all

[Bobcat Sig]

Wicked pics and stoke!

Would you comment on bg in lighter density snow? Considering it for chopped pow ski. I want something to destroy chopped pow and still be quick in the trees. I could use it to fill my quiver. I have a gap (based on width primarily) between 189cm kye 120s and 184cm devastators.

Bg vs. Other skis in lighter density chopped pow ?

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Sell both and buy the BillyGoats. We buy skis for the snow we want, not the snow we have. The Kyes are over kill.

The BGs slay chopped, light pow. Proved that last year at Big Sky and Jackson.

[Bobcat Sig]

Klauss, I know I've asked you this before, but can you please teach me how to ski this year? I feel like I have more to offer now that my tailgating base camp is in the main lot every weekend. I can kick my kid out to make room for your family. He's seen your videos. He would understand (no joke, when scoping out features from the lift, he's like "I bet Klauss could jump that).

It would normally be cute/funny for an 11yr old kid to be enamored with the steeze, but the conversation tends to be fairly similar when Eric and I mention you.

Getting back on topic now... Who has a 318bsl and a later model BG/SG and would like to do some AB'ing at Mt hood? Planning on BBI Alpy as well.

Not sure the 190 Bibby is everything I dreamed it would be, but again, I don't really know how to ski, so it could be operator error. I only had the chance to demo BGs on spring slush/groom, but they felt intuitive for my driving style.

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I have both the Bibby and the BG and each should fit your BSL.

FWIW, I skied the Bibby for years. It’s a rad ski. A bit more playful than the BG. And since caving and finally buying the BG, the Bibbys will be up for sale. You can ski them before
I list them in gear swap.

You should ski them back to back to make a solid call. They are both excellent with subtle and important differences.

I’ll molest your camper while you fondle my sticks... deal?

[MHSP1497]

Some stoke from today @ Timberline. Was crusty on the groomers, so rocked the K98’s while the wife rode her W88’s. Was a good day, free of the hordes. Even Mile was turning and, frankly, had the best groomed snow, while off piste was “exciting” if you wanted to turn.

[Reformed]

I have both the Bibby and the BG

You should ski them back to back to make a solid call. They are both excellent with subtle and important differences.

I have Bibbys in Northern B.C. if anyone has normal size Billys and wants to live the Bobcat Sig dream? Highly unlikely, which leads to this:
I know these skis have been compared and discussed lots and I kinda know the gist of it, but everyone's perspective is a bit different/valuable. Here we go. Again... Care to elaborate in terms of pow/tracked pow/crud performance? Is the Billy good enough to not look at C&D or would C&D be next-next level rad? Don't care about firm performance. Thanks and no worries if you'd rather not spend your time trying to characterize the subtle nuances of two rad skis. If I could ski them both I certainly wouldn't be asking!

[MHSP1497]

Is the Billy good enough to not look at C&D or would C&D be next-next level rad?

Controversial question here...

IMHO, as someone who skis both, the current C&D’s are next-level rad in anything over 3-4 inches. If they’re only ever going to see soft snow, be it fresh, cut up or whatever, they’re amazing. To the point of me questioning keeping my BG’s. They’re that good for me and how I ski. I’m 10-days into the season and have 6 on the C&D’s, 1 on BG and 3 on K98’s. I don’t see that changing anytime soon, either.

[SupreChicken]

Controversial question here...

IMHO, as someone who skis both, the current C&D’s are next-level rad in anything over 3-4 inches. If they’re only ever going to see soft snow, be it fresh, cut up or whatever, they’re amazing. To the point of me questioning keeping my BG’s. They’re that good for me and how I ski. I’m 10-days into the season and have 6 on the C&D’s, 1 on BG and 3 on K98’s. I don’t see that changing anytime soon, either.

My sentiments exactly. My soft snow percentage isn’t quite that good.

Definitely keeping the billy goats (let’s not make insane unfounded statements like “I’m selling my billy goats”)

But the 2019 C&D is next level rad. Lots of 184s left. Have to go custom for 189s. Some fortunate soul nabbed the last pair of 189

[Bobcat Sig]

I have Bibbys in Northern B.C. if anyone has normal size Billys and wants to live the Bobcat Sig dream? Highly unlikely, which leads to this:
I know these skis have been compared and discussed lots and I kinda know the gist of it, but everyone's perspective is a bit different/valuable. Here we go. Again... Care to elaborate in terms of pow/tracked pow/crud performance? Is the Billy good enough to not look at C&D or would C&D be next-next level rad? Don't care about firm performance. Thanks and no worries if you'd rather not spend your time trying to characterize the subtle nuances of two rad skis. If I could ski them both I certainly wouldn't be asking!

If you’re tossing in the C&D, it’s more a question of style of skiing rather than the skis themselves.

That said, I’ve never skied the C&D. Because bluntly, I prefer more of a driven ski and don’t much care for center mounted, jibby skis. I also like a bit of camber to my skis. So for me, it’s one type or the other.

In terms of tracked pow and crud, they’ll both do fine. The BG is so much better. It’s less about the construction as it is the tip shape. And maybe the RES.

The Bibby’s square tip works well in pow, but in the chop and chunder, it sort of punches through, slowing you a bit. The BG just slices and destroys with impunity.

If the crud is hard, there’s little either will be able to do for you. Then, you’ll want a Wren or a metal ski.

[MHSP1497]

If you’re tossing in the C&D, it’s more a question of style of skiing rather than the skis themselves.

That said, I’ve never skied the C&D. Because bluntly, I prefer more of a driven ski and don’t much care for center mounted, jibby skis. I also like a bit of camber to my skis. So for me, it’s one type or the other.

In terms of tracked pow and crud, they’ll both do fine. The BG is so much better. It’s less about the construction as it is the tip shape. And maybe the RES.

The Bibby’s square tip works well in pow, but in the chop and chunder, it sort of punches through, slowing you a bit. The BG just slices and destroys with impunity.

If the crud is hard, there’s little either will be able to do for you. Then, you’ll want a Wren or a metal ski.

this was true of the old C&D. The new one is like a fattened BG with similar manners but WAY more float.

and to the chicken’s point, I’m not gonna get ahead of myself a declare “I’m selling my Billy Goats” because, i’ll be honest, i’m not there yet. Still conducting appropriate testing before ultimately deciding the fate of BG’s role in my quiver. but, the newest C&D is astoundingly good.

[jackattack]

Can confirm wren 108s do just fine in boot to knee deep maritime pow. They’re also clutch on icy traverses to harvest pow stashes that survived until the night shift. I continue to be impressed by these skis. Stoked!

[himavan]

On3P Fam – I need some of your collective advice because my indecision on which pair of skis to get is annoying the shit out of me.
I’m 90% set on a pair of K108s, but I can’t decide on 181s or 186s (I’m slightly tempted to get K116s. And the BGs have been off my radar – I’m a bit intimidated by their stiff flex/long radius—but I’m intrigued by them as well).

Can anyone compare the K108 181 to the 186? How much of a difference does 5cms make on this ski? How much stability and float/less tip dive versus difficulty to control, issues in bumps, etc? I've never skied a rockered ski longer than 184 (but I do like that length)
Any idea if there will be changes for next year? – I’m tempted to hold out for the new line.

I have K98s (181) and love them—my favorite ski ever. Perfect low tide sticks. I like this length (I’m never overpowered by them) but in a few inches of soft snow/cut up snow they feel borderline short, and sometimes seems like not too much ski in front of me or I get bucked around a bit, hence my question on the 186s. On the other hand, as I age I would rather err on the short side for control and ability to pivot in trees and I’m tempted to stay with the length I know (no chance of demoing up here). And don’t ON3Ps measure longer than others?

Here’s more of my story (sorry for the blog) – 5-10, 160lbs, 44yrs. Skiing Canadian Rockies. Ski everywhere, and will mess around in the park here and there (booters, not rails) and a little swich (180s, etc, though mostly directional in soft snow). We see a lot of 3-8 inch dumps of dry snow. I tend to ski hard in the morning, and slow down in the afternoon when the advil wears off and I feel my age and injuries.

The K108s are to replace my 184 Moment deathwishes (love these as a one ski quiver, great on firm snow for their width and don't feel a need to go longer than 184 on them, but i find the triple camber a little funky in variable conditions, and not as smeary/slarvy as i like, and they don’t have the kartel pop for ollies). I also have an old (2009) pair of Atomic Bent chetlers (123/183) which I used to love, but feel like overkill in the resort and kind of clunky now (considering replacing these with BG’s next year, but that’s less of a priority then the daily soft snow driver).

[PowTron]

Some fortunate soul nabbed the last pair of 189

They are on their way to my house right now

[MHSP1497]

They are on their way to my house right now

They make you feel like an elephant and want to STOMP everything... in the best way possible too.

[Bobcat Sig]

this was true of the old C&D. The new one is like a fattened BG with similar manners but WAY more float.

and to the chicken’s point, I’m not gonna get ahead of myself a declare “I’m selling my Billy Goats” because, i’ll be honest, i’m not there yet. Still conducting appropriate testing before ultimately deciding the fate of BG’s role in my quiver. but, the newest C&D is astoundingly good.

Interesting. It’s an awfully fat ski for most of the skiing we do. Again, we buy skis for the snow we want, not the snow we have.

Having a quick peak at them, they look like they’d be the heli ski to have. Or for alpine cat skiing. I’d love to have a go on them.

[MHSP1497]

Interesting. It’s an awfully fat ski for most of the skiing we do. Again, we buy skis for the snow we want, not the snow we have.

Having a quick peak at them, they look like they’d be the heli ski to have. Or for alpine cat skiing. I’d love to have a go on them.

I don’t disagree with you at all, initially I only expected to enjoy them on “hero” days on Hood but specifically for some trips I have this year. When I took them out for the first time to get acquainted, I was shocked at their performance. Super stable, confident, solid, nimble, quick, stop-on-command. What I didn’t expect was for them to be better on low-angle soft snow than my BG’s or for them to be as well behaved on the way to the lift as the are; as in marginally different than my BG’s in a more slarvey/slidey way. I guess all I’m saying is I was stunned by these skis in the best way possible.

[kid-kapow]

MHSP - that looks like a ton of fun!

I’m not gonna get ahead of myself a declare “I’m selling my Billy Goats”

Isn't it a bit early in the season to really compare the two? Meaning, if the snow is drier or falls on snow that hasn't been skied into moguls having the wider ski perform better isn't all that surprising. I would think that as the moisture level increases and more people ski the deep snow to bumps/variable the BGs might still outperform a wider ski of similar design.

5-10, 160lbs

At your weight height either will do, but the longer skis will have the better stability and speed and float a bit better. The rocker lines on k108s are pretty deep, so going up shouldn't be a massive issue. Iggy has been saying that there is something new coming out for new year that might bridge the cap between wrens and kartel a bit, but that is about everything that is know. That being said, the season has just started and 2020 skis are still like 3-4months away - so I would have just bought some k108s - possibly in the longer length to add more stability - and enjoyed the rest of the season - instead of waiting for something that might or might not suit your needs better. K108s are a blast imo, and I am guessing you will be happy with either. I am 175cm/68kg and ski 181. Also, have you tried to give ON3P a call or chat with them? They usually provide prompt and very good advice wrt which ski or which length is recommended.

They are on their way to my house right now

hm, will be interesting to hear the w114 vs C&D comparison review

Bobcat - nice pics! Finally got to see them when I opened your post in a different browser and specifically opened each photo in a separate tab. Dunno why that was necessary.

[HukuTa_KydecHuk]

On3P Fam – I need some of your collective advice because my indecision on which pair of skis to get is annoying the shit out of me.
I’m 90% set on a pair of K108s, but I can’t decide on 181s or 186s (I’m slightly tempted to get K116s. And the BGs have been off my radar – I’m a bit intimidated by their stiff flex/long radius—but I’m intrigued by them as well).

I'm your size and weight and I'd say go 181 for sure. I don't know how athletic you are, but on 186 I felt like it's too much of a ski and that's why I sold it. Still very curious about 181, maybe I'll pick it someday. On K108 186 it was hard for me to throw tricks, mounted at recommended, tails felt too long. Also 186 are around 2300-2350 gr/each which is a bit heavy for me which I discovered later Also I have J114 181 and they are almost same length as Bibby 184. I think Scott also mentioned that lot of guys from factory are rocking 181

[Muggydude]

On3P Fam – I need some of your collective advice because my indecision on which pair of skis to get is annoying the shit out of me.
I’m 90% set on a pair of K108s, but I can’t decide on 181s or 186s (I’m slightly tempted to get K116s. And the BGs have been off my radar – I’m a bit intimidated by their stiff flex/long radius—but I’m intrigued by them as well).

Can anyone compare the K108 181 to the 186? How much of a difference does 5cms make on this ski? How much stability and float/less tip dive versus difficulty to control, issues in bumps, etc? I've never skied a rockered ski longer than 184 (but I do like that length)
Any idea if there will be changes for next year? – I’m tempted to hold out for the new line.

I have K98s (181) and love them—my favorite ski ever. Perfect low tide sticks. I like this length (I’m never overpowered by them) but in a few inches of soft snow/cut up snow they feel borderline short, and sometimes seems like not too much ski in front of me or I get bucked around a bit, hence my question on the 186s. On the other hand, as I age I would rather err on the short side for control and ability to pivot in trees and I’m tempted to stay with the length I know (no chance of demoing up here). And don’t ON3Ps measure longer than others?

Here’s more of my story (sorry for the blog) – 5-10, 160lbs, 44yrs. Skiing Canadian Rockies. Ski everywhere, and will mess around in the park here and there (booters, not rails) and a little swich (180s, etc, though mostly directional in soft snow). We see a lot of 3-8 inch dumps of dry snow. I tend to ski hard in the morning, and slow down in the afternoon when the advil wears off and I feel my age and injuries.

The K108s are to replace my 184 Moment deathwishes (love these as a one ski quiver, great on firm snow for their width and don't feel a need to go longer than 184 on them, but i find the triple camber a little funky in variable conditions, and not as smeary/slarvy as i like, and they don’t have the kartel pop for ollies). I also have an old (2009) pair of Atomic Bent chetlers (123/183) which I used to love, but feel like overkill in the resort and kind of clunky now (considering replacing these with BG’s next year, but that’s less of a priority then the daily soft snow driver).

The K108 will have way too much overlap with your K98, especially in a 181

IMO I’d get k116 in 186cm. That will be a much more diverse quiver - k98 for anything under 5 inches, k116 above. They have a ton of rocker and aren’t that stiff tip and tail - they ski short. I’m 5’9 and about 185lbs. Never felt like the kartel 116 or Jeffrey 114 in that length felt long.

[Gman]

I'm 155-160lbs and 5'11. I found 181 to be the perfect length for me in both the k98 and k108. Haven't skied the 116.

[SupreChicken]

Also keep in mind that the on3p 181 is likely slightly longer than the moment 184.

6’ 165”, I think the k108 186 is a perfectly balanced ski for me.

If I were going k96 or 98, I’d go 181.

K116 186, I felt like I could overpower, though I only had them on for 2 laps in mostly firm conditions.

I like muggy’s idea. I bet you’d dig the 116.

[mattig]

Yeah mattig we need to get some turns in. My 8 year old might be able to hang as we scope the mountain. I will be up most of the sundays in Jan/Feb as junior has snoblasters. The trick is finding something for my 5 year old when he comes up with me as he is more a north canyon / east rider level.

Cool man. With my kid in MRT, we're always there, but tend to bolt right at 2pm on Sundays. (Exceptions can be made, ofc).

If your wife comes with on Sunday, she and 5yr old are welcome to tax my kid's sbux hot chocolate stash in the camper while we take a few laps. Just don't save over his Red Dead Redemption save file on the PS4!



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[mattig]

Mattig,

Not a lot to offer here, but I have have been riding the 191 Billy since first run and am now on 193 std layup SGs... I will be heading to Bach early April for my annual Bach/Bend trip and I believe you make it there every now and than and if it works I will have no problem lending for the day... I will have my 108 Wrens in tow as well...

Also, because of all the cred I give to several posters here I had to give the 190 Bibbys ago and bought a pair... Skied them for one day and never clicked and never knew what all the excitement was about... Skis were sold... No doubt they get major kudos on the board, but did not scratch the itch for this cat... Hell I own 191 116 Kartels as well and connected with them immediately so for me it must be an ON3P thing...

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Between your reply and Ryan's below, I think my intuition based on my limited BG demo is right on. We'll for sure be at BBI Bachy. I've kicked myself a few times for not getting super goats. Would love to try them.

I have both the Bibby and the BG and each should fit your BSL.

FWIW, I skied the Bibby for years. It’s a rad ski. A bit more playful than the BG. And since caving and finally buying the BG, the Bibbys will be up for sale. You can ski them before
I list them in gear swap.

You should ski them back to back to make a solid call. They are both excellent with subtle and important differences.

I’ll molest your camper while you fondle my sticks... deal?

Molestation and fondling... How can I resist?



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[tlr]

I was initially relieved with powtron snatching last pair of 189 C&D. It was going to resolve the issue of C&D or 193 SuperGoats. Now with all the C&D stoke I want the C&D. Errr, too big of decision!

In the end I know I am holding off because in the middle of building home and not wise move to spend money on skis at this point, but then again I have made a lot of unwise moods that have made me happy.