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  1. #6576
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Western MT
    Posts
    1,332
    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    Iíll make sure to notify the press...
    I'm going to side with CaliBrit is a dick (or "wanker" since he's maybe a Brit).

    To not be totally guilty of thread drift, I have been greatly enjoying a pair of Kartel 108s that I bought from yeahman.

  2. #6577
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    NCW
    Posts
    2,062
    Quote Originally Posted by CaliBrit View Post
    Fair enough. Iíll remain a sceptic though.
    I think itís pronounced ďskeptic.Ē

  3. #6578
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Aspen
    Posts
    965
    Quote Originally Posted by Brady586 View Post
    I use the Kartel 96 as my DD and am super happy with it. Strikes a good balance between damp/stout and playful for me.
    I've got a Brahma for icier days since Kartel gets a bit scary on ice at speed, and if you are always railing at 50mph+ there are other more appropriate options. That said Kartel 96 doesn't give up too much and serves great all mountain.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    I have K108's and added Brahmas for the same reason as you, needed something that can bite when it's really firm. But I have been very surprised by the Brahma's versatility. I also have a dedicated pow ski so I'm basically running a three ski quiver (I have several other skis that rarely get used).

    I think if I were making a two ski quiver with the K116 I'd pick the Brahma over another Kartel. Obviously this depends heavily upon preferred skiing style and terrain choices during high pressure.

  4. #6579
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Sun Valley, ID
    Posts
    1,595
    Quote Originally Posted by jackattack View Post
    I think itís pronounced ďskeptic.Ē
    Been in the US for 17 years and I just learned a new word with differing UK/US spelling! Thanks.

  5. #6580
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    602
    Quote Originally Posted by CaliBrit View Post
    Not really trying to be a dick. Just being objective.
    Wait - what? Your first statement about TahoeJ was not tongue in cheek from one buddy to another? Just wow...

    I would not categorize wren108s as especially loose, even if they release fairly well and are easy to ski. The tails are no noodles, so some skill is required for skiing in tighter terrain. Tight skiing is not where Wrens excel imo, even if they can do that as well under a powerful skier.

    That BGs are more nimble and releases easier is perhaps the most mentioned input in this thread. I thought that was the whole idea of the pin tail & asym tails when compared to the less tapered, if equally rockered tails of the wren range.

    I am not the best person to ask for a comparison wrt BGs vs wrens. A skier that gets on with both can probably give you more insight or nuanced answers than I can provide. I never really clicked with my BGs - so I sold them, while I really like wrens in all guises. What I really like with the wrens is how they turn and how well they float, where I inparticularly prefer the longer effective edge and more pronounced sidecut in the tails of the wrens over BG. The differences are not massive no - especially in soft snow. Still, I prefer how wrens ski.

    Also, what little skiing I have done (hurrah other obligations...) this year has mainly been in a new area with different terrain and snow to what I rode last year. As such, it is a bit difficult to state how this year's crop ski - though so far so good. It does not help that I am not fully up to speed yet, so my skiing is not exactly super strong right now.

    I enjoyed my w108s today, though the day was mostly spent in varying amounts of agony due to a shitty choice of socks, toight boots and feet that are not accustomed to skiing. It was pretty painful at times to be honest, necessitating boot removal and frequent stops. Due to lots of tracked out, dense coastal fresh I also contemplated how a set of 184s would ski - though the main "issue" was me going to slow to let them truly work their magic, not that the ones I have are too short. I got on better with the wrens than my k116s, so to minimize the number of variables I just stuck with the w108s in spite of fairly deep snow. I did not bring my w114s, or they would have been the obvious choice. Oh well.

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    Token nice day out photo.

    Still love the on snow feel of ON3Ps though.

  6. #6581
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    BC
    Posts
    474
    The BG is much easier to whip around in the trees and is skied from a more upright ball of foot stance allowing quicker changes of direction.

    The wrens require a more forward pressure, but the tails are not hard to release, especially if the snow is soft it’s really a non-issue with the 108/114. Skied out trees are not super fun though, but thats probably because I have both in the 189 and it’s more due to length.

  7. #6582
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Sun Valley, ID
    Posts
    1,595

    ON3P SKIS Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by kid-kapow View Post
    Wait - what? Your first statement about TahoeJ was not tongue in cheek from one buddy to another? Just wow...
    Dude this is TGR not Alpinezone.
    Last edited by CaliBrit; 03-24-2019 at 08:24 PM.

  8. #6583
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    277
    I can't comment on the Wrens, but Billy Goats were fukin made for the trees! SO turny with no hookiness. Seriously a blast. BG > Bibbys >>>> QLabs in any kind of soft trees. The Wrens may be fine, but I'd be willing to bet the Billy Goats are better.

  9. #6584
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Sonoma & Truckee
    Posts
    11,073
    Iím still waiting for all of the good skiers to show up and contradict my jong opinion.

  10. #6585
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    8,203
    First day on BG's today after trading some Wrens for them. Three turns in I was in love. They match my skiing style to a T.

    I think the Wrens are awesome for the right skier, but I'm not that skier. I think they require more precision, and more work. The BGs are the opposite, you can get away with anything on those damn things.

    If there's a con, it is that they will make me a lazy skier.

  11. #6586
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    The Chicken Coop, Seattle
    Posts
    2,534
    Quote Originally Posted by shredgnar View Post

    The BGs are the opposite, you can get away with anything on those damn things.
    This ^^^^

    This is why I have a tough time skiing non RES skis mid season. Itís a cheat code.
    wait!!!! waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait...Wait!
    Zoolander wasn't a documentary?

  12. #6587
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    8,203
    Quote Originally Posted by SupreChicken View Post
    This ^^^^

    This is why I have a tough time skiing non RES skis mid season. It’s a cheat code.
    That exact thought seriously crossed my mind.

  13. #6588
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    in the trench
    Posts
    9,071
    Ugh that's what I thought. Looking for something that's ez ti ski, like my steeples. They're actually still stable at speed or on edge. Res works. BG might be what I'm after.... or both
    Don't sweat it J. Appreciate your opinion. It helped. Hard choice between the two. 20 yrs ago I might've preferred the wren I think

    Sent from my SM-G950W using TGR Forums mobile app

  14. #6589
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    2,995
    Quote Originally Posted by grinch View Post
    .. 20 yrs ago I might've preferred the wren I think
    ^^^ this ^^^

    I constantly have to remind myself of my current physical state

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  15. #6590
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    602
    Funnily enough the snow I rode yesterday might very well have been perfect BG conditions, though I have a feeling w114s will suit how I ski better than BGs - hence the swap.

    Or I might cave and re-acquire some BGs at some point. Time will tell, but crazier things have happened. Their shape just makes a lot of sense imo, even if the C&D take on the design makes even more sense to me and would probably be a better fit for me than BGs. I guess I should just start using my C&Ds, though my initial take after trying the w114s was that I would not be needing the C&Ds going forward - in spite of the hype in this thread making me get a pair. And yes, since I can't ski much this season I am compensating by buying lots of skis and completely overanalyzing my quiver needs.

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    Still - they look pretty damned nice imho, one matte top sheet away from perfection. That is one change for 2020 that I wholeheartedly approve of - matte, textured top sheets are absolutely stunning imo and look far better and hold up better to abuse than glossy ones.

    Of course - today sees bluebird conditions and 15-25cm of fresh - and I cannot ski. Yay.

  16. #6591
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Sonoma & Truckee
    Posts
    11,073
    Curious - does the snow stick more or less with a matte top sheet?

  17. #6592
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    277
    I don't get to ski nearly enough to justify both the BG and C&D, but damn those C&D are sexy and make me second guess that! I do wonder if something like a Woodsman 108 and C&D would make a better two ski quiver than a BG and whatever else I end up with.

  18. #6593
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    1,511
    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    Curious - does the snow stick more or less with a matte top sheet?
    Owning matte BGs and gloss W108s, can't say I've ever really noticed. I personally prefer the look of the gloss and if anything, snow may actually stick more to the gloss than the matte. Maybe you peeps from a wetter coastal snowpack find a larger discrepancy (more suction/adhesion on the gloss surface)?

  19. #6594
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    9
    You guys inspired me to pick up a pair of 187 Brahmas to complement my K108 and R11s. Found a deal for new 2019's @ $380, hope this wasn't a bad decision....

    Quote Originally Posted by JaytaeMoney View Post
    I have K108's and added Brahmas for the same reason as you, needed something that can bite when it's really firm. But I have been very surprised by the Brahma's versatility. I also have a dedicated pow ski so I'm basically running a three ski quiver (I have several other skis that rarely get used).

    I think if I were making a two ski quiver with the K116 I'd pick the Brahma over another Kartel. Obviously this depends heavily upon preferred skiing style and terrain choices during high pressure.
    Last edited by AltaOmega; 03-25-2019 at 02:51 PM.

  20. #6595
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    7B Selkirks USA
    Posts
    609

  21. #6596
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    602
    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    Curious - does the snow stick more or less with a matte top sheet?
    I have no idea. The "proof" I've seen thus far is all anecdotal. Some people say less snow sticks on matte top sheets under direct sunlight, while some say glossy is preferable. Some say textured is good, some say that just leaves more purchase for snow to stick to. Hell, people can't even decide if lighter colors are better than darker ones! hehe. The overall friction properties of the top sheet might also have more to say than whether it is matte or glossy, flat or textured - so who knows.

    I just prefer the matte, textured top sheet over a glossy, flat one - mostly for their improved esthetics. So not performance driven per se, even it makes me even more stoked on the skis. Don't get me wrong - both are nice, I just prefer the matte/textured.

    I might be mistaken wrt the swap for the 2020 lineup though - I cannot remember where I got that piece of trivia from. As such I guess we will know when the 2020 line drops. All I can say is good luck trying to top the current crop of 2019s skis - they look bomber. Also, I really can't compliment Scott enough for changing the graphics every year producing ever more inspiring and graphically pleasing top sheets.

    In other news - I just fondled my stock w114s, and man, they make R11s feel like noodles!
    Last edited by kid-kapow; 03-25-2019 at 10:46 PM.

  22. #6597
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    8,203
    So with my newfound love of the BGs the logical next question is:
    is there a Woman's version for my wife? Something sub 170, maybe narrower waist? She's got the Jessies but would like a little more turn ability and is already sick of hearing me talk about mine.
    And is there a skinnier version for everyday skiing.
    I honestly feel like I could ski the BGs everyday, but that seems unnecessary since I'm usually on hard packed chop, not pow unfortunately.

  23. #6598
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    407
    My wife is on the older 176s and loves them. I’m looking for another short pair for my sister now.

  24. #6599
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Boise, ID
    Posts
    962
    Quote Originally Posted by wwwllw View Post
    My wife is on the older 176s and loves them. I’m looking for another short pair for my sister now.
    I'm glad she is enjoying!

  25. #6600
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    93
    Quote Originally Posted by shredgnar View Post
    So with my newfound love of the BGs the logical next question is:
    is there a Woman's version for my wife? Something sub 170, maybe narrower waist? She's got the Jessies but would like a little more turn ability and is already sick of hearing me talk about mine.
    And is there a skinnier version for everyday skiing.
    I honestly feel like I could ski the BGs everyday, but that seems unnecessary since I'm usually on hard packed chop, not pow unfortunately.
    I think they can do custom LadyGoat runs. Not sure on length but Iíd be in for a group buy. You?

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