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  1. #7026
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
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    Los Angeles/Mammoth
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    1,317
    Quote Originally Posted by SkiLyft View Post
    Yo @Iggy

    Mount point on the C&D looks like its a little bit further back than the Goats. Is that true? Will mount on line but just wanted to check.
    The 16/17 C&D 191s I had were around -11cm from center, which was further back from the BG that year. Not sure how things have changed with the current models though.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

  2. #7027
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Where full grown men pretend to be cowboys
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    559
    Quote Originally Posted by SkiLyft View Post
    A couple more months and will add some Jessie’s for Mrs Skilyft. Can I get some blem J108 in a 161 paahhhleaasse.
    I've got some 2019 161 JS108 demos with a small sidewall blem mounted w/Attack 13s that are looking for a new home....

  3. #7028
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    SEA>DEN>Spokanistan
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    2,965
    Quote Originally Posted by CallMeAl View Post
    I've got some 2019 161 JS108 demos with a small sidewall blem mounted w/Attack 13s that are looking for a new home....
    Hell yeah
    Mrs Skilyft is stoked!!

    Pm sent

  4. #7029
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    SEA>DEN>Spokanistan
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    Quote Originally Posted by CallMeAl View Post
    Feck, I was mistaken, they are 166s. Did you get my text?

    However, I did just get several PMs expressing interest in the 161 Jessies (that I don't have), but here's a list of what I do have with summer pricing.

    Prices include Attack 13 demo bindings. Not looking to split but you shouldn't have any issue getting $50 for the bindings on here if you don't want them- I've done it a few times. Happy to ship on your dime ($35-$50), or pickup from Bozeman.

    2019 Jessie 108 (Small Sidewall Blem fixed at the factory before mounting)- 166 $350
    2019 Kartel 108- 191 $400
    2019 Wrenegade 108- 184 $400
    2019 Wrenegade 114- 184, 189 $400
    2020 Woodsman 116 proto (black proto topsheet, a little STIFFER, a little straighter, a little less taper) 187 $450
    2020 Woodsman 116 proto (black proto topsheet, a little SOFTER, a little straighter, a little less taper) 187 $450
    Passing on the 166’s and plan to get some 161’s from ON3P.

    If I recall correctly 161’s are new for 19-20.

    Sidewalk looks primo!! Someone snatch these up.
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  5. #7030
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
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    SEA>DEN>Spokanistan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rowen View Post
    Base mount off sidewall punch, not topsheet lines
    Just checked— great point.

    Line on BG matches mount mark.
    Line in C&D is behind mount mark.

    Must me messing with my head.


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  6. #7031
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Bodenseekreis
    Posts
    920
    Quote Originally Posted by SkiLyft View Post
    Just checked— great point.

    Line on BG matches mount mark.
    Line in C&D is behind mount mark.

    Must me messing with my head.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Maybe that's the reason for the blem, top sheet being slightly longitudinally off?

  7. #7032
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Portland
    Posts
    3,083
    Quote Originally Posted by SkiLyft View Post
    Just checked— great point.

    Line on BG matches mount mark.
    Line in C&D is behind mount mark.

    Must me messing with my head.
    For clarity, there is no mount mark location data on any of our topsheets (never has been). The sidewall notch is the only mount mark on the skis (intentionally). Besides the drill bit sizing on the topsheet, there is nothing on there to indicate boot center. Hope that helps.

    Those CD were "blems" because they were the product photo pair we used throughout the season, so they just got some topsheet/base scuffing and such in the process.
    Seriously, this can’t turn into yet another ON3P thread....

  8. #7033
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
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    SEA>DEN>Spokanistan
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    Quote Originally Posted by iggyskier View Post
    For clarity, there is no mount mark location data on any of our topsheets (never has been). The sidewall notch is the only mount mark on the skis (intentionally). Besides the drill bit sizing on the topsheet, there is nothing on there to indicate boot center. Hope that helps.

    Those CD were "blems" because they were the product photo pair we used throughout the season, so they just got some topsheet/base scuffing and such in the process.
    Great insight! Thanks again @iggy I really appreciate all the time you spend herding the proletariat on here.



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  9. #7034
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Portland
    Posts
    3,083
    Something new.
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    Seriously, this can’t turn into yet another ON3P thread....

  10. #7035
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    2,282
    hm, those look mighty fine I must say - a def upgrade to the original vinyl version imho. One would think that woodland bases with red lettering would be a fitting 'murica combo no?

    It will be really interesting to see how some of your classic banging top sheets will look on a veneer top sheet.

    The buying options on your site made me giggle a bit too.
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  11. #7036
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    London
    Posts
    579
    Can some one please school me on forward mount skis versus traditional mount? What are the pros and cons from a purely skiing perspective? In other words I don’t care about anything switch or spinnning.

    The more forward mount makes the ski quicker, easier to pivot but doesn’t the extra long tail get caught up if the snow is manky?

    With the more forward mount you have less ski in front to absorb rough terrain and generate float?

    Can you still make huge high speed, loaded and fully over GS turns with a forward mount ski?

    I’m sure, I’m over thinking this. In fact I’m sure I skied with a guide that was on Blizzard 0Gs this winter that had them way forward mounted and he seemed fine in manky crap snow... but then most guides do.

    Like many on a hot summer day with a cold beer in my hand, I’m contemplating these important issues. As well as trying to think through if the Wren should be my next daily driver or is it this Woodsman that’s got me all hot and bothered in my loins. And in a 90 width or 108? And now metal too? So much to consider.
    Skiah for life

  12. #7037
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Exiled from Maine
    Posts
    418
    *stoke trigger warning!

    Going to leave these in the yard to scare away the neighbors’ cats. [Woodsman 108s.]

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  13. #7038
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
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    SEA>DEN>Spokanistan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abol98 View Post
    *stoke trigger warning!

    Going to leave these in the yard to scare away the neighbors’ cats. [Woodsman 108s.]

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    Shuuuuuuu-weeee good lookin sticks!


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  14. #7039
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    London
    Posts
    579
    Those are hawt
    Skiah for life

  15. #7040
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SE Idaho
    Posts
    2,178
    Quote Originally Posted by ChowdahRidah View Post
    Can some one please school me on forward mount skis versus traditional mount? What are the pros and cons from a purely skiing perspective? In other words I don’t care about anything switch or spinnning.

    The more forward mount makes the ski quicker, easier to pivot but doesn’t the extra long tail get caught up if the snow is manky?

    With the more forward mount you have less ski in front to absorb rough terrain and generate float?

    Can you still make huge high speed, loaded and fully over GS turns with a forward mount ski?

    I’m sure, I’m over thinking this. In fact I’m sure I skied with a guide that was on Blizzard 0Gs this winter that had them way forward mounted and he seemed fine in manky crap snow... but then most guides do.

    Like many on a hot summer day with a cold beer in my hand, I’m contemplating these important issues. As well as trying to think through if the Wren should be my next daily driver or is it this Woodsman that’s got me all hot and bothered in my loins. And in a 90 width or 108? And now metal too? So much to consider.
    Kartel 108 is a forward mount and can charge fine. Maybe not like my Praxis Quixote but still plenty fast and no tail issues in funky snow that I have encountered. I like the Kartel for tight trees, if I was just looking at big GS turns mixed with some tighter stuff here and there would prefer my Quixote or Bibby.

  16. #7041
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    London
    Posts
    579
    Any difference on ice... More or less grip? I wouldn’t think it would make a difference but thought I’d ask.
    Skiah for life

  17. #7042
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SE Idaho
    Posts
    2,178
    Quote Originally Posted by ChowdahRidah View Post
    Any difference on ice... More or less grip? I wouldn’t think it would make a difference but thought I’d ask.
    If it's icy I'm on my Armada Invictus 95s or home doing other things, ha. That being said the Kartels seem to grip pretty good on the firm stuff I've encountered.

  18. #7043
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    273
    Quote Originally Posted by ChowdahRidah View Post
    Any difference on ice... More or less grip?
    K108 is "okay" on firm/ice but definitely prefers softer snow. wrenegade series would be more in line for firmer snow

    iirc rec mount point is -5cm from true center on the K108 and around -10 cm from true center on the wren

    feel free to scroll back a few (or more) pages to read all about the kartel mount point question, performance at different mount points and personal preference. i currently have mine at -2cm from rec and really really like em there...ymmv

  19. #7044
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    Sep 2004
    Location
    London
    Posts
    579
    I haven’t seen much in this thread on the Wren 96... ?
    Skiah for life

  20. #7045
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    Aug 2013
    Location
    SE Idaho
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    Quote Originally Posted by detuned View Post
    K108 is "okay" on firm/ice but definitely prefers softer snow. wrenegade series would be more in line for firmer snow

    iirc rec mount point is -5cm from true center on the K108 and around -10 cm from true center on the wren

    feel free to scroll back a few (or more) pages to read all about the kartel mount point question, performance at different mount points and personal preference. i currently have mine at -2cm from rec and really really like em there...ymmv
    I think mine are at -1cm and seem good, I have the ability to shift them back another 1.5cm should try that too. Yeah, they're definitely no ice skates but honestly I haven't had to ski them on anything super firm but agree the wrenegade would likely be a better option there.

    Chowdah, some info on where and what you like to ski might be helpful for input from others that have skied a variety of the ON3P offerings.

  21. #7046
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    273
    Quote Originally Posted by ChowdahRidah View Post
    I haven’t seen much in this thread on the Wren 96... ?
    the skinniest on3p's spoken of here are mostly the 108s. nothing wrong with the 96/98 waist skis, i have a pair of wren 98's for touring and i love them. most folks here are west US and deal mainly with powder and more consistent soft snow so a wider ski underfoot makes sense.

    this thread could easily be renamed the BG/C&D stoke thread, i love my older BG's but rarely speak of them cuz they are so (in my mind) perfect there's no need for me to ponder anything about them, by far my favorite ski ever




    Quote Originally Posted by 3PinGrin View Post
    I haven't had to ski them on anything super firm but agree the wrenegade would likely be a better option there.
    true that, especially for a more directional skier

    kartel/jeffery prefers one to be more centered/balanced fore and aft. yes, totally have the ability to charge but mounted rec my K108's got squirrley on me, once i went -2 it was another world for me...again, ymmv

  22. #7047
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Driving2VT
    Posts
    4,582
    Quote Originally Posted by ChowdahRidah View Post
    I haven’t seen much in this thread on the Wren 96... ?
    I ski northern VT & love the Wren 98. Skis thinner to me given its edge to edge snappy quickness whereas the 108 ski wider than its dimensions imho.

    I use the 108s as a pow ski here and 98s as my firmer condition alternate. 98s excel on groomers given they are at home w speed. 108s seem to want more space/momentum to open up whereas 98s will respond out of the gate.

    If I had to pick one for my snow climate, 98s hands down but fortunate enough to be quiver deep. Woodsman 96s slotted into the mix for next season to continue to tweak and explore.
    Uno mas

  23. #7048
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    London
    Posts
    579
    Thank you for all your comments, all very helpful.

    I’m currently looking for a daily driver for the Alps. Something between roughly 95 and 105 under foot. Snappy/poppy quick for tight spots but also plush/damp suspension for the mix of harder roughed up snow we have... also above average edge grip as we get a lot of days that resemble the East Coast. I want something fairly heavy as this will be my resort to 50/50 ski - I have a separate ski for proper touring. I want something that crushes more and won’t get deflected.

    I tend to like skis with much less side cut - I.e. old Explosiv and Gotama and my current pow ski is an older Lotus 120.

    My background: 5,10 190 lbs. but 45 - not as quick and daring as I used to be.

    Ex East Coast racer right through college but I also participated in quite a few bump contests and did my share of skiing the pow in the trees in northern VT. I tend to switch styles a lot between pure race and more upright but take very little air these days. I also lived in CO for 6 yrs so understand how different skis suit different snow types. I have lived in London, skiing the Alps for the last 11 years. I find picking skis for the bad to the amazing to the everything in between snow we get very difficult. And if even if it’s an all groomer day, the Europeans typically don’t groom the slopes as nice as they do in the US. They can be very firm but also pretty roughed up even at the start of the day. So edge grip and nice suspension make for a better day. With lighter skis you can finesse and pick around but it can be tough to really push it. So a ski with a bit of heft is not a bad thing.

    I’m looking at the Wrens 96 or 108 or same for the Woodsman. Also looking at possibly a Mantra, an Enforcer or Ranger FR.... this ski will be my main ski and if there’s new snow I go straight to the 120 because it’s too much fun.

    Any thoughts would be much appreciated!

  24. #7049
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    2,282
    First of all - I would reach out to ON3P through their chat or call them if I were you - they give excellent advice.

    My 2 cents:
    - for max grip, traditional mount and chargyness -> metal wren96 or 108 (105 vs 108 doesn't make a whole lot of difference imo). -> choose if hard snow performance/chargyness is the more important.
    - for a more centered mount and probably a bit more varied turn shapes/playfulness -> woodsman 96 or 108. -> choose if varied turn shapes/playfulness is the more important.

    -> You should be able to crush on both models based on your background, so the choice is more how much chargyness do you want (metal and mount point) vs playfullness/ability to be fun at low speeds too.

    96s are in general more snappy, while 108s yields more GS'y/longer turn shapes. I am leaning 96 in your case.

    All ON3Ps have a great feel/suspension, and all have decent weight for punchability in difficult snow - further enhanced by fairly straight shapes without a ton of taper. All ON3Ps I have been on are quite easy to ski, while retaining good chargyness due to good mid ski support.

    The front rocker is similar/identical across all four models, so expect the skis to have better than average float compared to the waist widths of competitors - aka, I would not be concerned with going 96, they will still be ok+ in fresh while being able to slay groomers.

    long story short -> I would suggest giving wren96ti's a go.

    Disclaimer - I have not tried Woodsmans yet, but love wren88s and 108s. I will try wren96/96ti this coming season. I quite liked Kartel98/108s, but moved on due to their mount points (want less tail) and to try new designs.

  25. #7050
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Driving2VT
    Posts
    4,582

    ON3P SKIS Discussion

    Chow, will just chime back in to say we have similar taste is skis as I also loved the Explosiv, still ski the Volkl built K2 Kahuna “skinny explosiv” occasionally and get a kick out of how much fun they still are, use and love the Lotus 120 as my travel pow ski, and it also sounds like we are similar in age and size. 5’10”, 44 and 175lb here.

    The current Wren is the ski you’ve loved with added playfulness and ease which I have found welcomed by my aging frame. I know I am not a Kartel match but interested in the Woodmans as the Wrens speed is evident in the tighter trees of northern VT. In space, the 2018 Wren is by no means too much ski for me and perhaps my favorite ski of all time. I would take my 98s > explosivs and bet I’d prefer the 114s > Lotus 120s (speculation and that is saying a lot given my love for the 120s).

    Kapow is spot on top to bottom w his advice although not sure I’d go metal. I would just add that if you are not looking for a performer in tight spots don’t shy away from Wrens. However they do crave speed so if you are looking to take it down a notch and not always travel at top speeds the Woodsman could be a great alternate. I like to skis fast so Wrens are my game, I just need to slow down in the woods. Can circle back once I’ve skied the Woodsman 96 but don’t wait that long to buy skis.

    If you are fine w the 120s as your soft snow ski, go Wren 96. I’d likely go 189 as I am guessing the Alps have the room for them. Not sure you need the metal as I’ve never felt my wrens needed to be enhanced at all. Highly encourage trying what ON3P is doing these days. Lots of great skis out there, no doubt, but the hype here is justifiable.
    Last edited by Doremite; 07-11-2019 at 08:25 AM.
    Uno mas

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