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Thread: ON3P SKIS Discussion
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10-13-2018, 07:38 AM #4851Registered User
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10-13-2018, 09:06 AM #4852
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10-13-2018, 01:05 PM #4853Banned
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ON3P SKIS Discussion
Yup. K108, Vicik, 191 Wren, 191 BG all on the “regret selling” list.
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10-13-2018, 01:07 PM #4854Registered User
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10-13-2018, 01:12 PM #4855Banned
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Lolz
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10-13-2018, 01:19 PM #4856
+++ THIS +++
I took my Ferrari out for a drive. The left front tire pressure was 12 lbs. low and the right rear was 7 lbs. high. The steering behavior was a bit odd. Do you think I should sell it?
Effectively, he has never skied the skis if they don't have a baseline tune. Then, definitely play with detuning tips/tails as was also mentioned.
... ThomLast edited by galibier_numero_un; 10-13-2018 at 10:06 PM.
Galibier Designcrafting technology in service of music
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10-13-2018, 02:23 PM #4857Registered User
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Like I said before. They were tuned but not detuned. They are now detuned. My question wasn’t whether I should sell them, it was how folks that have them would describe how they skied.
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10-13-2018, 02:53 PM #4858Registered User
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Thom's answer (your answer if you are Thom) is... I gave up trying to write a sensible reply to it / to you as the/your analogy is utterly and completely off and the presumption that a high end ski needs to be... argh. Nm, i give up. Disregard.
Remind me not to redicule people when replying yes?
Auvgeek - photos are inbound, when i return to the skis i will post some pics. W114 and w108 rocker lines seem very very similar/identical if my memory serves me right.Last edited by kid-kapow; 10-13-2018 at 02:59 PM. Reason: add promises of sweet photos to come :)
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10-13-2018, 03:08 PM #4859Registered User
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10-13-2018, 03:14 PM #4860
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10-13-2018, 03:19 PM #4861Registered User
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I know how to use google. I was looking for personal opinions out of curiousity, not an official review from people that may or may not be paid to say positive things about skis. Thanks for reminding me why I never ask questions on here.
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10-13-2018, 03:58 PM #4862
ON3P SKIS Discussion
The nice thing about blister reviews is that you can get an idea of what those guys like from reading through a number of their reviews. Find a ski that you like or hate and read their review to get a baseline. Then you can judge subsequent reviews with some consistency. Owner/amatuer reviews are likely to be just as/more biased and one-sided as your assumption re: blister.
Do yourself a favor and spend 10 days on the skis with a proper tune. A bad tune will ruin any ski.
Also, I don’t think they’re far off in their description of the Wren 98 based on my experience on the 96.Last edited by jackattack; 10-13-2018 at 04:36 PM.
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10-13-2018, 07:30 PM #4863
Well, maybe I read your post (quoted below - "a bad, hooky tune") as needing more than just dulling to the end of the taper points.
Still, before selling them, you should verify flatness, base & edge bevel, etc.
If you're the original owner, you're very likely fine as ON3P is real good about that. I'd still check 'em, unless you just like buying & selling skis. Also, one person's perfect tune is another one's misery, although we seem to see some convergence in this area.
You're welcome. Paging Greg @AlpinezoneGalibier Designcrafting technology in service of music
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10-13-2018, 08:13 PM #4864Registered User
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Yeesh. I didn't say I wasn't going to ski them. I do like to buy and sell skis (and motorcycles and 4x4's and vans and bikes, etc etc). I'm not the original owner. I bought them off of ebay, got them tuned, and skied them 2 or 3 days at MJ at the end of the season. I have since taken them to a more reputable shop, gotten them fully tuned after explaining how they rode to the tech, and detuned them somewhat aggressively tip and tail. If Luv or A Basin open this week, I'll go ski them next weekend and take a file and gummy stone with me on the mountain.
For the record, I've now had 5 different people PM me and say their Wrens rode the exact same way no matter how much they detuned them, but don't want to say so in this thread because of the bashing that goes on in here.
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10-14-2018, 04:46 PM #4865
A couple notes:
You description, tune issues aside, is pretty on point. They can be chargy when you need them, smeary when you need them, and carve when you need em.
With the rocker, they don't have the top speed of a ski with less rocker, but it makes them more maneuverable and fun at slow speeds and in mogul/trees and they float a lot better than the skis of a similar width.
They excel in areas where the ski has good snow contact - so anything soft (including soft groomers). On hard snow, they carve fine but at really fast speed on hard snow, you will find the speed limit due to the shorter than normal running length.
The bamboo is damp but poppy, which is a feeling we love. Some don't, but it allows you to load up the skis and get good energy back, but you don't feel a lot of the bumps and vibrations of other responsive skis. Damp but responsive is the description we use and I feel represents it well. Bamboo is unique.
They are the easiest to ski directional ski we've ever made. If they are pulling and hooking as you described, those characteristics are not normal.
In the defense of those who responded, your post is very similar to the post you made on 9/29, and you also stated "thinking about unloading these" in this post - so I understand the impression of everyone reading it assuming that we are rehashing the previous, multipage conversation from two weeks ago.
Your experience on the skis is different from most on those skis, because most don't have tune related issues (though I know it has been continuously alluded to these last couple weeks).
In TGR's defense, you posted your original question on 9/29.
Following that post, within 2 days, you had overall positive and helpful responses to the tune of:
25 posts
from
- Auvgeek
- Norseman
- Tuco
- 2FUNKY
- jackattack
- stradissimo
- MHSP1497
- SoooL
- rainy512Day
- Bruce Springskiin
- TahoeJ
- N1CK
- Betelgeuse
- uglymoney
- and me - the CEO and designer of these skis.
You did get some attitude back, but it's the internet. If I asked a question on the internet and got a similar overall positive, thoughtful, and complete response, I certainly would find the info useful. Hopefully it was, because it was generally good & accurate info regarding your issue.
I'll go on record and say that, in my experience, a lot of techs, even at reputable shops, do not know how to properly tune skis with a lot of rocker, even still. I've spent a lot of time helping customers get their skis back to a factory tune over the years. The number one issue we see is skis too sharp, so hopefully the aggressive detune you got helps. Don't neglect the edges within the sidecut though.
We do a full detune from the end of the running length (with camber) to the tip, and then fairly aggressive detune within the sidecut. Our skis like to be skied pretty detuned.
If you need help on the detune, give us a call. Happy to walk you through it.
Here is what I will say about.
First - there are two people in this thread saying exactly that, and neither is being bashed.
Uglymoney has been publicly posting about his issue for months, with no bashing. He is the only ON3P customer, who bought skis for us, whom I know with this issue in a prolonged state. I have offered to pay to have the skis shipped back to us so we can retune them for him.
Second was N1CK, who said he had similar experience at a demo day. That's bit tough to read into. What was the snow? How many days on the skis? Were they just tuned? Did he just got off of a more detuned ski? etc, etc. A couple runs at a demo day can be hard to focus into the characteristics of a whole line of skis.
Second - I'm not saying I don't believe your statement. I can only tell my side, which is:
1) To my best memory, there haven't been 5 people in the history of ON3P who have reached out to our customer service about Wrens being too catchy and had the issue not being solvable.
To my best knowledge, there is no one who has reached out through:
Info email
My personal email
Website chat
FB
IG
Phone
TGR PM
or any other means where we are readily available to handle customer service with these issues who wasn't able to get help that solved the issue or given guidance to solve the issue (say, a scenario like yours - where it is summer and it will be some time before we get additional feedback).
I believe, and could be wrong, that both ON3P and I have a reputation for trying to be proactive, helpful, and level headed with our customers when it comes to customer service issues. If you have a problem, reach out. I cannot help an issue that hasn't been brought to our attention.
It is certainly difficult for me to reconcile that there would be (5) TGR members, active enough to read these threads, with these exact issues, who are too uncomfortable to post in this thread, or who haven't reached our directly to ON3P or me for help, which can be done by phone, email, chat, FB, etc...
If you are one of those 5 and you are struggling to get your Wrens to work, contact us. There is no ski-design characteristic that creates this issue, and any suggestion that it is related to the ski's shape is a fundamental misunderstanding on how skis work. It's 100% tune related, which means it is a solvable problem.
We're happy to help solve that problem.
NG - if you need more help once you get on snow, let us know.Last edited by iggyskier; 10-14-2018 at 05:19 PM.
Seriously, this can’t turn into yet another ON3P thread....
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10-14-2018, 05:04 PM #4866
Yes it is. It's really dialed for the all-mountain aspects we want.
Sounds like you got this handled. For what it is worth, I would have suggested 184cm, with the 189cm as the option if you really value stability. If you need to chat more, give us a call.
Everyone else already got it, but 189cm BG. You are so light you don't need the extra stability of the SuperGoat, and I think for most people, the tail of the BG is better suited. The SG locks in (by design, but it decreasing its maneuverability for sure).
He gets em free.
You and I have talked at length. I support your ski quest. Before I started ON3P, I think I owned 25 pairs in 4 years. I just think you would level out your knowledge base if you aimed to get 3-4 extra days per ski before moving on. It's really hard to make decisions on skis 5 days, IMO. I tell people who buy our skis that the breakin period is often 5-7 days on flex & tune.
All that said, lots of great skis out there. You are going to have a good time whatever you are on!
Oh and yeah. I agree on ski product videos! We just have such limited time/money for marketing hard to get those done. Figured better for us to talk about product videos here than in the Volkl thread . Focus V Focus
For the record, Blister is the only people we now send skis to be reviewed by because they are the only people doing reviews that are not pay to play. Everyone else is some sort of pay-to-play tied into marketing campaigns. It is a business, and most of the tests have worked to improve accuracy, so not a judgement on the tests themselves. I just don't find the results of the tests cover the high marketing expensive, and am so so on going to a test we have to pay for.
Maybe someday we'll go back. The events themselves are fantastic and run by great people. The ON3P employees that get to attend are essentially rewarded by going (who doesn't want a week of great people, skiing, and partying?). But I'm cheap and it is hard to justify the cost when there are marketing avenues with a lot more ROI.Seriously, this can’t turn into yet another ON3P thread....
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10-14-2018, 05:14 PM #4867
We charge $99 now for FedEx International. Normally 4-6 days. We list the insurance value lower to help on import costs. If you want have an idea on import cost, you can look here.
https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...tes?highlight=
So, Wren vs Kartel is all about balance. More progressive and center = Kartel. More directional and driven = Wrenegade. Both will handle ice fine (not great), with the Wrenegade a bit more stable due to more effective edge. That said, I always suggest the ski with the right balance point.
It's hard enough to sell the 179cm skis. We have thought of a model where we cut down on the instock skis, but make more skis (like a women's wren) available made to order. We'll see. We know there is interest for shorter Wrens or BG but...in our experience we just don't sell a lot of skis in those ranges and not enough to justify building.Seriously, this can’t turn into yet another ON3P thread....
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10-14-2018, 07:17 PM #4868
Cold day, not great nor fresh snow as I recall. Firm but carveable day-old snow.
No idea how many days on that pair as it was in the demo fleet. I think I was probably skiing my 9D8s that day.
I've tried (and own) other of your skis. I believe these were not typical. Plus I'm a shitty skier, so that adds to the mystery!
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10-14-2018, 07:27 PM #4869
Thanks for the additional info. Front range Colorado fleet often got touched up at evo mid season, so wouldn't surprise me if the simplest explanation, which is what I would expect, is that the edges where just too sharp (bit easier for us to detune here where everything is motorized, than the rep in Denver w/ file & gummi). As you said, not typical for the feel of our skis, and if you told the rep that they were hooky, suspect (or at least would hope) it was fixed and good to go next demo. Generally, at a demo day if we get feedback that a tune feels off, we pull the ski for the rest of the demo (would certainly be interested to hear if you noticed that happen). Unless that feedback is that the skis are too detuned, which is normally a style thing.
Happy to do a big more digging if you have an idea on when that demo was?Seriously, this can’t turn into yet another ON3P thread....
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10-14-2018, 07:38 PM #4870
ON3P SKIS Discussion
Have some 189 Wren108’s arriving soon. Should I just keep/ski the factory tune (1/1)?.....or should I put my usual 1/3 tune on them?.....*(could I request the boys at ON3P to put a 1/3 on them?)
*I’m EC, so I’m assuming I am going to need a little more “bite”....but will detune tips and tails real good as usual.
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10-14-2018, 07:43 PM #4871
The tune we put on is a general tune. If you prefer 1x3 on your skis, go for it. That said, I don't see the harm in skiing them first to get a feel as a base level, but we don't feel people have to stay 1x1.
You will get a good feel for our base level, pre-snow detune level when you get them. Just aim for that if you tune them in the future.Seriously, this can’t turn into yet another ON3P thread....
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10-14-2018, 07:48 PM #4872
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10-14-2018, 10:13 PM #4873Registered User
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Oh, I should have been more clear in my post. I totally understand that you guys have to build skis that sell in order to keep the lights on and the Wren in a 17X and any ski in a 19X is hard to sell. While I do think my wife would love a 174 Wren 108, that was more of my way of mentioning the 175 Corvus as an option when someone asked about ON3P skis.
"Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers
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10-14-2018, 10:22 PM #4874
Aw makes sense. That said, chance for me to float out the "if you pay for it, we'll build it" option within our custom capacity. That is likely the future of the Wren 114, Supergoat, 174cm Wren 96, etc. Stuff that we want to offer, but that it's hard to sit on inventory for. Lady Goat + maybe a shorter Wren 108 would possibility be in the same boat.
Seriously, this can’t turn into yet another ON3P thread....
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10-14-2018, 10:34 PM #4875
FWIW, I have a LOT of experience with Edgeworks/Evo Denver, and while Matt (former Edgeworks owner, current head of Evo tune shop) is hands down one of the best ski techs on the Front Range, like most other shops they tend to leave the edges on the sharp side. I ALWAYS detuned my skis that came back from him. Actually, I now tell all shops to not detune and do it myself regardless of who tunes them.
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