ON3P SKIS Discussion

[3PinGrin]

Yeah, besides the shape that we keep beating to death here, I was after something quite a bit lighter for touring.

I am a huge fan of the standard layup that ON3P has developed and think it's nearly ideal for resort riding, but I'm too much of a pussy to haul them around the far hills any more. Even the tour layup is heavy for it's size. There's just no getting around the density of boo!

Still waiting for Scott to kick out a hybrid core, primarily paulownia but with two long bamboo stringers of full core height vertically laminated with the p-wood, double carbon, single glass only under the binders, in a Wren 108 mold.

I definitely get the weight comment. Usually I am solo or with my wife so no issue with trying to keep up with a group. Which is good, because I'm pretty slow on the up, ha. I like your thoughts on the wren 108......

[TAFKALVS]

I guess I'd still prefer the width of the regular BG if there's anything soft to push around, including chunder and funk... not just to hit the proper stiffness for the shape, as you note (though of course that could be adjusted by other means), but moreso for having that underfoot width to give a stable two-footed platform for cruising the wonky snow. I think having 115+ underfoot is a nice aid to standing evenly on both feet in 3D snow and texture/windfunk while the rocker and RES beat and slice... till it gets too firm and the width becomes a detriment.

Seems like the Wren line is really polishing up nicely to fill the quiver spot we're talking bout, eh? The new 114 could even easily usurp the BG in the role that many of us use it for: directional soft snow charger. Are my cold dead hands loosening up? Hmm

That I think my interest in narrow res is also a function of the snow being really shallow and variable with lots of firm bits at the home hill. I've been in want for a narrower BG type ski at Stevens just mission and to some degree Discovery basin as well.

Wren 108 and 114 are both on my radar for sure. Sell your 191s now before the bottom falls out of the market!!!

[kid-kapow]

yeah, all are bone stock. I do not really know why the wren88s are as heavy as they are, but i think they will be absolutely amazing for resort based haulassery. I am going to try em as a touring ski also, though that is due to quiver limitations more than anything else (the bmts will all be sold locally here in scandiland to raise some cash). I do not think they will be a very good softer snow ski - they are simply too stiff for their limited waist width - hence the flex on the 98s. The shape of the w88s is simply amazing, so it will be fun to see if i am worthy

as such, i am very interested to see where on3p are going with the w96s. Slightly narrower 98, or is it something between the 88 and 98? I am guessing the former, which is why my 88s are going absolutely nowhere

[auvgeek]

The RX has a low-30's radius, right? Not sure I quite see eye to eye with you on wanting the progressive mount WITH long radius... though I admit to being retarded when it comes to spinning and jibs n shit.

I would rather have a big tip out there on a directional ski if I'm riding a long radius edge and driving through the turn... and inversely, I would assume that the tricksters would find the long radius to get in the way of maneuverability for jibbing around.

Maybe my gauge is uncalibrated, but is there really much demand for a 105-waisted, 30+ meter radius, prog-mounted stiff ski?

Yeah, the RX has a 32 m radius with a -8 mount. A little more forward and a little longer radius, but not really so different than the W108. But my interest in a skinny RX is for touring -- it might not be perfect, but I think I'd prefer it over the -11 mount on the Zero G 108 I'm currently skiing. I just think skis with super rearward mounts ski weird on firm snow. I notice less in soft snow.

The ski I really want is a 108-110 waisted, 27-28m, prog-mounted, med-stiff, even-flexing ON3P-layup ski. Kind of like a 110-waisted Bibby with a bamboo core, but with a touch less severe taper. Also similar to the current Jeffrey 110 I'm skiing, with the 25m radius. (Speaking of which, it's too bad we weren't able to swap skis at Alpy over Christmas.) Not saying everyone will love it, but I think enough people are on the fence between a Wren and a Kartel that ON3P could sell enough pairs to make it worthwhile. But it's still in my head -- would obviously need to ski a pair to see if the experiment has any merit.

Also, I think this ski is more suited to Utah and CO than the PNW, where I would pretty much just ski the BG everyday.

[MHSP1497]

yeah, all are bone stock. I do not really know why the wren88s are as heavy as they are, but i think they will be absolutely amazing for resort based haulassery. I am going to try em as a touring ski also, though that is due to quiver limitations more than anything else (the bmts will all be sold locally here in scandiland to raise some cash). I do not think they will be a very good softer snow ski - they are simply too stiff for their limited waist width - hence the flex on the 98s. The shape of the w88s is simply amazing, so it will be fun to see if i am worthy

as such, i am very interested to see where on3p are going with the w96s. Slightly narrower 98, or is it something between the 88 and 98? I am guessing the former, which is why my 88s are going absolutely nowhere

My wife rides custom W88’s with the 19oz fiberglass and the softer carbon options. She LOVES them for groomer cruising/trench laying. She’s light enough that they’re manageable in a few inches of fresh snow, but submarine pretty badly in anything over 4” or so (which is why she might get BG’s next year). To quote her: “all they want to do is go faster.”

Edit to add: the W88’s reward a more “classic” skier form, with lots of shin pressure to drive them.

[kid-kapow]

good to hear that she is getting on with them! I am sure i will as well.

Best of luck to PowTron in your new endeavours! I really appreciated your help in getting my quiver dialed

[Nic.A]

WREN 98 is my ski of choice for soft snow. Great float, plows through the chop, stable and amazing flex and feel. I enjoy my steeples, but this ski does it all for me.

[meepmoop24]

Thinking about getting another set of skis to use as a DD in CO and can't decide what to get. I'm thinking either 184 Wren 108 or 181 Kartel 108. I like to ski bumps and do a bit of switch skiing, and I want a similar combination of stability/pivotability as the BG. Any thoughts on which ski would be a better bet? Seems like people really like the Wren 108, and I guess I could give up skiing switch since I'm not good at it anyways.

For reference, I have 184 veneer BGs and love them for their combination of pivotability and stability. I have a 185 Cochise that I'm using for a DD now but I'm not loving it. I also have Bibby Tours and love those as well, so the 188 PB&J is a consideration too.

[PowTron]

good to hear that she is getting on with them! I am sure i will as well.

Best of luck to PowTron in your new endeavours! I really appreciated your help in getting my quiver dialed

No problem, man!

Future is bright

[Banh Mi]

Yeah, the RX has a 32 m radius with a -8 mount. A little more forward and a little longer radius, but not really so different than the W108. But my interest in a skinny RX is for touring -- it might not be perfect, but I think I'd prefer it over the -11 mount on the Zero G 108 I'm currently skiing. I just think skis with super rearward mounts ski weird on firm snow. I notice less in soft snow.

The ski I really want is a 108-110 waisted, 27-28m, prog-mounted, med-stiff, even-flexing ON3P-layup ski. Kind of like a 110-waisted Bibby with a bamboo core, but with a touch less severe taper. Also similar to the current Jeffrey 110 I'm skiing, with the 25m radius. (Speaking of which, it's too bad we weren't able to swap skis at Alpy over Christmas.) Not saying everyone will love it, but I think enough people are on the fence between a Wren and a Kartel that ON3P could sell enough pairs to make it worthwhile. But it's still in my head -- would obviously need to ski a pair to see if the experiment has any merit.

Also, I think this ski is more suited to Utah and CO than the PNW, where I would pretty much just ski the BG everyday.

Heavy Core #4 Praxis MVPs? The high grade Maple and Ash core feels better to me than aspen and pine Moment Core. Replace some glass with carbon if you want more pop. I see people ripping around Squaw on MVPs all the time.

I really want to get on the Kartel 108s or 116s next year though.


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[waxoff]

So... the Wren train was slowly rolling by the platform I was standing on. Tgr coupons hanging in the windows. Could not resist climbing onboard any longer. 108's will be my ride.

[Self Jupiter]

Yeah, the RX has a 32 m radius with a -8 mount. A little more forward and a little longer radius, but not really so different than the W108. But my interest in a skinny RX is for touring -- it might not be perfect, but I think I'd prefer it over the -11 mount on the Zero G 108 I'm currently skiing. I just think skis with super rearward mounts ski weird on firm snow. I notice less in soft snow.

The ski I really want is a 108-110 waisted, 27-28m, prog-mounted, med-stiff, even-flexing ON3P-layup ski. Kind of like a 110-waisted Bibby with a bamboo core, but with a touch less severe taper. Also similar to the current Jeffrey 110 I'm skiing, with the 25m radius. (Speaking of which, it's too bad we weren't able to swap skis at Alpy over Christmas.) Not saying everyone will love it, but I think enough people are on the fence between a Wren and a Kartel that ON3P could sell enough pairs to make it worthwhile. But it's still in my head -- would obviously need to ski a pair to see if the experiment has any merit.

Also, I think this ski is more suited to Utah and CO than the PNW, where I would pretty much just ski the BG everyday.

.... Praxis MVP

-flowing Jupiter

[Banh Mi]

So... the Wren train was slowly rolling by the platform I was standing on. Tgr coupons hanging in the windows. Could not resist climbing onboard any longer. 108's will be my ride.

I snagged a pair as well. I couldn’t resist. I hope they ship out soon so I can put some time on them next week with these storms here in Tahoe.


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[undertow2]

I snagged a pair as well. I couldn’t resist. I hope they ship out soon so I can put some time on them next week with these storms here in Tahoe.


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BG, I just saw your PM and knowing the skis you dig and how you like to ski the 108 was the way to go... I absolutely love my 98s and they really do not have any weakness... Holds an edge like a champ and is fast edge to edge and prob one of my favorite bump skis... It does have a speed limit and this is where the 108 separates itself from its little brother... The 108 flexes stiffer and obviously skis stiffer with a higher speed limit... Does really well in junked up snow and is by far one of the best "narrowish" skis that is a blast in POW...

I have said it before and I will say it again - ON3P knocked it out of the park with this Wren series...

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[krick]

I've been skiing (and loving) a brand new set of 2018 Kartel 108 186 for the past week and have been scratching my head about the few flex-related criticisms I'd read in the past about the Kartel 108 as well as Blister's "6" rating of the tips and tails. Now I know why.

Looks like you were on a 2017 (first year) Kartel 108. I'd be curious to see your feedback on the 2018 or 2019 at some point. We adjusted the core profile so the flex was more even throughout and stiffer in the tips and tails specifically to give the skis a more consistent flex and turn shape. Flex wise, if the 2017 was "very soft" doubt the 2018/2019 would likely be in the flex range you want, but still think it would be interesting to see if the increase in the tips/tails stiffness offered you some modicum of stability increase.

Design wise, this sort of came of change shows the progression of where that ski came out of. Really started as a park-capable ski that didn't suck outside the park. The decrease rocker between 2017 & 2018 & the flex change were all changes made to shift them more and more all mountain. Same with the change from the Elliptical to Hybrid sidecut between 2018 and 2019.

See above re-flex. Curious if you found the same thing on newer models. If you get on a pair let me know. I know the pair you are really thinking about, so obviously the Kartel 108 still isn't what you are looking for in its current specs, but would still be interesting to see.

[Banh Mi]

BG, I just saw your PM and knowing the skis you dig and how you like to ski the 108 was the way to go... I absolutely love my 98s and they really do not have any weakness... Holds an edge like a champ and is fast edge to edge and prob one of my favorite bump skis... It does have a speed limit and this is where the 108 separates itself from its little brother... The 108 flexes stiffer and obviously skis stiffer with a higher speed limit... Does really well in junked up snow and is by far one of the best "narrowish" skis that is a blast in POW...

I have said it before and I will say it again - ON3P knocked it out of the park with this Wren series...

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Im trying to decide on whether to go Kartel 116 or Wren 98, in addition to the w108. Idk which gap in my quiver is larger...


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[iggyskier]

Im trying to decide on whether to go Kartel 116 or Wren 98, in addition to the w108. Idk which gap in my quiver is larger...

[Bruce Springskiin]

Im trying to decide on whether to go Kartel 116 or Wren 98, in addition to the w108. Idk which gap in my quiver is larger...


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If you are in Jackson or the area, you should jump on these stiff Kartels I picked up second hand. Had my first day on them and they were a hoot.

[alfajores]

I finally got to demo some asym Billy Goats at Bridger last Thursday.
I grabbed the skis and went straight up to Hidden Gully, then took the Outer Limits Traverse and found bliss. Thigh-deep 5% untracked, down to some slightly chopped up, slightly heavier snow. The whole way down I couldn't believe how easy the Billys made things. When I'm in chop, my instincts, when the ski tips start to catch, is to slam into the front of my boots and force the skis to point back down the fall line. The Billys did exactly what I want.
I'm going to buy some. The question is 179 or 184. I demo'd the 184, but I'm 5'6" and 145 lbs. I'm mainly going to ski Stevens Pass, Crystal, and Alpental, so It seems like the 179 should be better for PNW trees. If I lived in the Rockies, the 184 would be mine. Decisions, decisions...
Attachment 227777

179 will be really great for the doug firs. Based on your mass and height, I would go shorter by a hair.

[mr_pretzel]

If you are in Jackson or the area, you should jump on these stiff Kartels I picked up second hand. Had my first day on them and they were a hoot.

Which one do you have? 108 extra carbon?

[Bruce Springskiin]

Which one do you have? 108 extra carbon?

116 extra carbon, 186cm
I also have supergoats, and a few other Owen3Ps I might be willing to let a mag take a few laps on. If you are around a 315mm boot.


- I am here for the stoke

[stradissimo]

179 will be really great for the doug firs. Based on your mass and height, I would go shorter by a hair.

I bought 184s last night and already have a tracking number. If they end up being more ski than I want, I'll pony up for 179s.
Thanks for the advice, all

[crank54]

BG, I just saw your PM and knowing the skis you dig and how you like to ski the 108 was the way to go... I absolutely love my 98s and they really do not have any weakness... Holds an edge like a champ and is fast edge to edge and prob one of my favorite bump skis... It does have a speed limit and this is where the 108 separates itself from its little brother... The 108 flexes stiffer and obviously skis stiffer with a higher speed limit... Does really well in junked up snow and is by far one of the best "narrowish" skis that is a blast in POW...

I have said it before and I will say it again - ON3P knocked it out of the park with this Wren series...

Couldn't agree more. Been really loving my 184 W108 this season. I've thought about what you might do to it to improve it, but nothing comes to mind.

Really dialed ski.


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[PowTron]

If you are in Jackson or the area, you should jump on these stiff Kartels I picked up second hand. Had my first day on them and they were a hoot.

Glad you are digging.

[mr_pretzel]

116 extra carbon, 186cm
I also have supergoats, and a few other Owen3Ps I might be willing to let a mag take a few laps on. If you are around a 315mm boot.
- I am here for the stoke

Sick! Since they are Powtrons I am going to assume they have the 22oz fiberglass too?
Edit: they are not! Found the thread:

“186 Kartel 116, STIFF Custom Layup (double 6” carbon, tour profile) = can’t order these “

Stoked to hear more about them when you get more time on them as it’s forsure something I want to get on!