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  1. #6801
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    LaLa Land
    Posts
    3,173
    I had previously posted that I had bought 184cm BG's and am mounted 4mm in front of the line as I'm reusing holes. I felt I couldn't drive the tips like I wanted, but they are super quick in the pow, pivoty, and fun. Enjoyed them on deep days in Mammoth, even if I could sink the tips when pressuring the tips.

    Took them to AK last week. Skied them 1 day and they sat in the RV the rest of the week as I reached for my old skool Atomic Atlas. On big AK faces, with Ak snow (think super light facets on the top 3" with denser pow lower down) the sidecut and quick nature of the BG's were not super confidence inspiring. They felt a like the sidecut wanted to turn too quick and I still can't completely commit to driving the tips and when one is skiing 3k of vert super fast, at least this old fart, wants to be driving the tips and charging. Ended up liking the much longer turn radius of the 182cm mini Atlas which made the ski more predictable, the flat tail for hauling ass in front of sluff, and the significant tip rocker let me charge the front of that ski without fear of stuffing the tip coming in hot through sluff or chunder. I was an AK virgin and we nailed it scoring 6 days of clear epic condition, but was definitely a bit bummed that the BG wasn't the right ski for me in those conditions, on those ginormous faces at those speeds.

    That said, still wondering about mounting my BG's back a bit or maybe trying a pair of 114 Wren's? Thoughts?
    He who has the most fun wins!

  2. #6802
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    in the trench
    Posts
    8,728
    Sounds like it's the +4 thing more than the ski

    Sent from my SM-G950W using TGR Forums mobile app

  3. #6803
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    203
    Lightbox photos are a welcome addition. On3p's topsheets leave something to be desired from photographs... I never saw the appeal of last year's bg topsheet till I saw one on snow. Man, do they pop. Absolutely digging the green magnus tops this year.

  4. #6804
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    497
    Quote Originally Posted by comish View Post
    I had previously posted that I had bought 184cm BG's and am mounted 4mm in front of the line as I'm reusing holes. I felt I couldn't drive the tips like I wanted, but they are super quick in the pow, pivoty, and fun. Enjoyed them on deep days in Mammoth, even if I could sink the tips when pressuring the tips.

    Took them to AK last week. Skied them 1 day and they sat in the RV the rest of the week as I reached for my old skool Atomic Atlas. On big AK faces, with Ak snow (think super light facets on the top 3" with denser pow lower down) the sidecut and quick nature of the BG's were not super confidence inspiring. They felt a like the sidecut wanted to turn too quick and I still can't completely commit to driving the tips and when one is skiing 3k of vert super fast, at least this old fart, wants to be driving the tips and charging. Ended up liking the much longer turn radius of the 182cm mini Atlas which made the ski more predictable, the flat tail for hauling ass in front of sluff, and the significant tip rocker let me charge the front of that ski without fear of stuffing the tip coming in hot through sluff or chunder. I was an AK virgin and we nailed it scoring 6 days of clear epic condition, but was definitely a bit bummed that the BG wasn't the right ski for me in those conditions, on those ginormous faces at those speeds.

    That said, still wondering about mounting my BG's back a bit or maybe trying a pair of 114 Wren's? Thoughts?
    Which bindings and boots? Your height and weight?

  5. #6805
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    296
    Quote Originally Posted by grinch View Post
    Sounds like it's the +4 thing more than the ski

    Sent from my SM-G950W using TGR Forums mobile app
    +4mm is nothing

  6. #6806
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    pdx
    Posts
    11,839
    Quote Originally Posted by grinch View Post
    Sounds like it's the +4 thing more than the ski
    He said +4 mm, not cm

  7. #6807
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    593
    Quote Originally Posted by comish View Post
    That said, still wondering about mounting my BG's back a bit or maybe trying a pair of 114 Wren's? Thoughts?
    You sound like a prime candidate for Wrenegade114s too me. Nice price ones available here:

    https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...ings-Demos-etc

    I would not change the mounting point on your BGs. Also, BGs have a way longer sidecut than Atlas' no?

    It could also be that you prefer a more substantial / supportive tail, in which case Wren114s also should be more to your liking.

  8. #6808
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Driving2VT
    Posts
    3,041

    ON3P SKIS Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by iggyskier View Post
    We just literally had people emailing over and over to snag early Woodsman slots
    Awesome Scott. Glad to hear of such early demand. Protos arrived yesterday and look awesome. Pains me to wait 7 months to give ‘em a spin.
    Uno mas

  9. #6809
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5,079
    Does anyone have a lot of time on the Woodsman 108 yet? I've seen people saying they demoed them for a few runs but I'd love to hear something more substantial.

    Love to see if anyone can A and B the 192 and 187.

    I'll probably buy a pair this summer regardless but curious as to how they ski.

  10. #6810
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Lapping the pow with the GSA in the PNW
    Posts
    2,987
    Quote Originally Posted by comish View Post
    I had previously posted that I had bought 184cm BG's and am mounted 4mm in front of the line as I'm reusing holes. I felt I couldn't drive the tips like I wanted, but they are super quick in the pow, pivoty, and fun. Enjoyed them on deep days in Mammoth, even if I could sink the tips when pressuring the tips.

    Took them to AK last week. Skied them 1 day and they sat in the RV the rest of the week as I reached for my old skool Atomic Atlas. On big AK faces, with Ak snow (think super light facets on the top 3" with denser pow lower down) the sidecut and quick nature of the BG's were not super confidence inspiring. They felt a like the sidecut wanted to turn too quick and I still can't completely commit to driving the tips and when one is skiing 3k of vert super fast, at least this old fart, wants to be driving the tips and charging. Ended up liking the much longer turn radius of the 182cm mini Atlas which made the ski more predictable, the flat tail for hauling ass in front of sluff, and the significant tip rocker let me charge the front of that ski without fear of stuffing the tip coming in hot through sluff or chunder. I was an AK virgin and we nailed it scoring 6 days of clear epic condition, but was definitely a bit bummed that the BG wasn't the right ski for me in those conditions, on those ginormous faces at those speeds.

    That said, still wondering about mounting my BG's back a bit or maybe trying a pair of 114 Wren's? Thoughts?
    Hmm. I skied with you once at a Mammoth mini back in the day, so I know you know how to ski. I wonder if the effective edge/flat tail has anything to do with the preference for the Atlas? IIRC, the BG has a ~29-m turn radius and the Atlas has something closer to the mid to low 20’s. Or maybe the Atlas has more shovel due to the mount point and that just works better for your style?

    Bummer that they weren’t the right fit in AK. I
    cannot image wanting a different ski for such a trip.
    In constant pursuit of the perfect slarve...

  11. #6811
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    2,703

    ON3P SKIS Discussion

    The Atlas mount is -10 to -12 from center IIRC, they’re very different skis. I owned the 192s. Fun ski.
    Last edited by Self Jupiter; 04-23-2019 at 09:12 AM.

  12. #6812
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Your Mom's House
    Posts
    6,308
    Quote Originally Posted by Bandit Man View Post
    IIRC, the BG has a ~29-m turn radius and the Atlas has something closer to the mid to low 20’s.
    This is correct, the 182cm Atlas has a 22m turn radius and the 184cm Billy Goat has a 28.6m turn radius. So I don't think that's the problem.

    My guess is preference for flatter tail and more rearward mount. I have never had any issues with Billy Goats feeling too turny in wide open terrain, though, and I have had that issue on other skis.
    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    All ye punterz! Leave thine stupid heavy skis in the past, or at least in the resort category, for the age of lightweight pussy sticks is upon us! Behold! Keep up with the randocommandos on their carbon blades of shortness! Break thine tibias into spiral splinters with pintech extravagance!

  13. #6813
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    The Dirty E
    Posts
    762
    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    My guess is preference for flatter tail and more rearward mount. I have never had any issues with Billy Goats feeling too turny in wide open terrain, though, and I have had that issue on other skis.
    I think you and I may be having the same feeling on the BGs. I've been struggling for a few days on them, and I also think it's just how centered they are compared to other skis I'm more comfortable on. If I just skied a little more centered and less "driven", they did exactly what they were designed to do, but anything more than that and they felt ponderous and hooky.

  14. #6814
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    LaLa Land
    Posts
    3,173
    Quote Originally Posted by sf View Post
    Which bindings and boots? Your height and weight?
    Soli bindings, Doberman WC 130 boots, 5'9" 160.

    Atlases have old Marker Duke's interestingly enough.
    He who has the most fun wins!

  15. #6815
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    LaLa Land
    Posts
    3,173
    Quote Originally Posted by cstefanic View Post
    I think you and I may be having the same feeling on the BGs. I've been struggling for a few days on them, and I also think it's just how centered they are compared to other skis I'm more comfortable on. If I just skied a little more centered and less "driven", they did exactly what they were designed to do, but anything more than that and they felt ponderous and hooky.
    Yep.

    I agree with other posters that it's likely the mount position of the BG's. Hence why I'm toying with going a bit further back. Like -1cm from the line? It is so close to what I want, but at the end of the day I don't ski centered, so like skis with a rear mount. I can definitely feel differences of 1cm for those doubting that it would make a difference. Not everyday on every run, but can definitely feel it.

    Other thing I sometimes wonder about is my boots are a 295mm boot sole length, so small. Does that make me more sensitive to mount position? Thanks for the ideas everyone.
    He who has the most fun wins!

  16. #6816
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Your Mom's House
    Posts
    6,308
    RES on Billy Goats is very sensitive to mount position. They will probably not ski well mounted at -1. Wouldn't recommend doing that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    All ye punterz! Leave thine stupid heavy skis in the past, or at least in the resort category, for the age of lightweight pussy sticks is upon us! Behold! Keep up with the randocommandos on their carbon blades of shortness! Break thine tibias into spiral splinters with pintech extravagance!

  17. #6817
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    8,244
    Quote Originally Posted by cstefanic View Post
    I think you and I may be having the same feeling on the BGs. I've been struggling for a few days on them, and I also think it's just how centered they are compared to other skis I'm more comfortable on. If I just skied a little more centered and less "driven", they did exactly what they were designed to do, but anything more than that and they felt ponderous and hooky.
    You might want to try a detune at the contact points if the BG's are feeling hooky, because they are anything but hooky. I feel like they lend to a more loose style of skiing that some people might not really work well with. For me, being the shitty skier that I am who likes to get into steep, tight, ugly terrain and see if I can figure it out, they are perfect. I was on the Wrens and they were hooky AF for me, and required a lot more work and skill that I don't have in order to ski them well.

  18. #6818
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    the ham
    Posts
    6,187
    Quote Originally Posted by cstefanic View Post
    ponderous and hooky.
    I chuckled at bit at that.

    IMO, they're just not your and comish's cup of tea. One guess would be that (again IMO) they aren't meant to go straight - hence the name. They are however fantastic at steam-rollering pnw cement "pow", but you have to keep them at least a little on edge or the res can engage in unintended directions.

  19. #6819
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,530
    Quote Originally Posted by comish View Post
    Yep.

    I agree with other posters that it's likely the mount position of the BG's. Hence why I'm toying with going a bit further back. Like -1cm from the line? It is so close to what I want, but at the end of the day I don't ski centered, so like skis with a rear mount. I can definitely feel differences of 1cm for those doubting that it would make a difference. Not everyday on every run, but can definitely feel it.

    Other thing I sometimes wonder about is my boots are a 295mm boot sole length, so small. Does that make me more sensitive to mount position? Thanks for the ideas everyone.
    BGs require a more centered two footed style. If you over pressure the tips the tails wash out and the skis act a little wonky. I doubt remounting them will help but a change in approach (more centered and 2 footed) will make the skis come alive.

  20. #6820
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    497
    Quote Originally Posted by comish View Post
    Soli bindings, Doberman WC 130 boots, 5'9" 160.

    Atlases have old Marker Duke's interestingly enough.
    Ok. Shouldn't matter much. Both are pretty flat.
    I just wanted to check if you skied them with Kingpins, Ions or any other binding with a bit of ramp.

    I like my BGs best when I stay forward, but I must avoid leaning forward. Over the balls of my feet, slightly more dynamic/laterally smooth/two-footed than when I ski more traditional skis

  21. #6821
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    the ham
    Posts
    6,187
    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    RES on Billy Goats is very sensitive to mount position. They will probably not ski well mounted at -1. Wouldn't recommend doing that.
    I would never recommend mounting BGs off the line, but I do own a pair of this year's 184 asyms that were already drilled for a different bsl, so rather than put more holes in them I decided to try them out at the resulting minus 5mm and they skied just fine. Even on hardpack. But I'm sure there's a tipping point somewhere behind that.

  22. #6822
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    21
    Quote Originally Posted by comish View Post
    I had previously posted that I had bought 184cm BG's and am mounted 4mm in front of the line as I'm reusing holes. I felt I couldn't drive the tips like I wanted, but they are super quick in the pow, pivoty, and fun. Enjoyed them on deep days in Mammoth, even if I could sink the tips when pressuring the tips.

    Took them to AK last week. Skied them 1 day and they sat in the RV the rest of the week as I reached for my old skool Atomic Atlas. On big AK faces, with Ak snow (think super light facets on the top 3" with denser pow lower down) the sidecut and quick nature of the BG's were not super confidence inspiring. They felt a like the sidecut wanted to turn too quick and I still can't completely commit to driving the tips and when one is skiing 3k of vert super fast, at least this old fart, wants to be driving the tips and charging. Ended up liking the much longer turn radius of the 182cm mini Atlas which made the ski more predictable, the flat tail for hauling ass in front of sluff, and the significant tip rocker let me charge the front of that ski without fear of stuffing the tip coming in hot through sluff or chunder. I was an AK virgin and we nailed it scoring 6 days of clear epic condition, but was definitely a bit bummed that the BG wasn't the right ski for me in those conditions, on those ginormous faces at those speeds.

    That said, still wondering about mounting my BG's back a bit or maybe trying a pair of 114 Wren's? Thoughts?

    I had pretty much the same exact experience last week in Alaska (Black-Ops Heli Skiing Valdez) (Highly recommended).

    I’m 5'6" 140lb. I’ve been skiing the BG 174cm for the past three seasons and I absolutely love that ski (keep in mind I'm 10cm shorter than someone 5'10"). Occasionally in open alpine terrain when I can really let the ski run I feel I could use something a little longer. So when the opportunity came up recently (on this thread) for a BG tour layup 179cm I jumped all over it.

    On low angle terrain they were fine, but on the steep terrain in Alaska I found it very difficult to control the tips; the skis wanted to wander and aggressively turn uphill. I did OK, but had to work very hard. After a few runs I was completely exhausted. For the next two days I used their rental skis (BD megawatt), and crushed it.

    Not sure if there something I could’ve done as far as tuning. Maybe there are some adjustments I could make with my technique, but I’ve skied quite a bit of steep alpine terrain and never had this issue in the past; also had no problem with different skis on the following days.

  23. #6823
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Lapping the pow with the GSA in the PNW
    Posts
    2,987

    ON3P SKIS Discussion

    The notion that a BG is NOT a great AK ski is intriguing. I guess I should finally book a trip to test the hypothesis first hand...I mean many of us have been training for Alaska for several years now, so it makes sense.
    In constant pursuit of the perfect slarve...

  24. #6824
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    BC
    Posts
    468
    Rex shepard seems to be doing fine. I think it comes down to preference.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bq79B9Gh..._web_copy_link

  25. #6825
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    588
    Comish, what have you thought of your Wren 108s that are mounted on the line? I know the mount point is similar to the Billy Goats, but while the BGs are my favorite skis ever, I’m finding that I may prefer other everyday skis with boot centers more in the -5 to -6 range (I prefer the 187 Meridian 107 to the 184 Wren 108).


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

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