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  1. #6851
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
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    180
    An On3p Swallowtail would sell... But this looks like something strange and one-off... sidecut profile makes it look like it's a modified normal ski.


    Quote Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier View Post
    Admit it... ON3P snowblades would sell.

  2. #6852
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
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    1,985
    Quote Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier View Post
    Admit it... ON3P snowblades would sell.
    Iím pretty sure Moments snowblades sold out quickly, so yeah I bet they would.

  3. #6853
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Portland
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    Quote Originally Posted by iggyskier View Post
    So we've got updated product pages (line wide) plus landing pages for the Wren TI, Jeffrey, and Woodsman all in process or close to completion - so a lot more details on the way. We just literally had people emailing over and over to snag early Woodsman slots - and Magnus/Jeffrey are in stock and now shipping - so just couldn't wait anymore to get the skis in while we finish everything up.

    Within the next week, there will be a lot more info out there.
    Quote Originally Posted by TripleT View Post
    Alright alright, point taken.
    FWIW, it’s reading the new info and marketing copy on on3p.com that brought me to the question in the first place. To me the differentiation between the skis isn’t super clear. Especially bc the description for the wren is still the ‘19 info.
    ^
    Seriously, this canít turn into yet another ON3P thread....

  4. #6854
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Portland
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    2,986
    Quote Originally Posted by TomFromNS View Post
    Will metal be a custom option going forward?
    Eventually but gonna be awhile for any model outside the Wren. Just takes a long time to tweak and dial in these profiles.
    Seriously, this canít turn into yet another ON3P thread....

  5. #6855
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Portland
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    2,986
    We already have the Snowblade branding but no timeline to actually build some. Pretty busy on other things right now.
    Seriously, this canít turn into yet another ON3P thread....

  6. #6856
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Der Town
    Posts
    6,415
    Quote Originally Posted by iggyskier View Post
    We already have the Snowblade branding but no timeline to actually build some. Pretty busy on other things right now.
    I bet you guys would sell way more snowblades than Super Goats and Wren114s.

  7. #6857
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    the ham
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    6,251
    Quote Originally Posted by TripleT View Post
    What then exactly is the woodsman? I thought wren = directional yet with some pop, Jeffery = poppy/jibby with some backbone.
    If woodsman is between not quite sure what that is....


    ok, srsly...

    I've owned a few Wrens, and would say that it's a directional ski that likes to be skied in the fall line. The differences between the versions/years really boils down to how far off the fall line they'll go before fighting you. IMO it's the perfect ski for open faces, lines that point to the valley, runs that don't get bumped up, etc. If you see gates in loose glades, it's the ski for you. And it's no coincidence that the guy the ski is named after is a WB local.

    I've never skied the Jeffrey (or Kartel), but it's fairly easy to see that it's aimed at skiers who see the whole mountain as a terrain park. There's no limit on how far out of the fall line you can go.

    So IMO, the Woodsman is a directional ski that is going to be more comfortable out of the fall line than the wren, hence more versatile, but not as spinny/jibby as the Jeffrey (in part due to the mount point). It's a serious contender for the elusive quiver of one ski.

  8. #6858
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    203
    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    I've owned a few Wrens, and would say that it's a directional ski that likes to be skied in the fall line. The differences between the versions/years really boils down to how far off the fall line they'll go before fighting you. IMO it's the perfect ski for open faces, lines that point to the valley, runs that don't get bumped up, etc. If you see gates in loose glades, it's the ski for you. And it's no coincidence that the guy the ski is named after is a WB local.

    I've never skied the Jeffrey (or Kartel), but it's fairly easy to see that it's aimed at skiers who see the whole mountain as a terrain park. There's no limit on how far out of the fall line you can go.

    So IMO, the Woodsman is a directional ski that is going to be more comfortable out of the fall line than the wren, hence more versatile, but not as spinny/jibby as the Jeffrey (in part due to the mount point). It's a serious contender for the elusive quiver of one ski.
    As an aging Jeffrey owner, that sounds awesome.

  9. #6859
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Your Mom's House
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    6,356
    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post


    ok, srsly...

    I've owned a few Wrens, and would say that it's a directional ski that likes to be skied in the fall line. The differences between the versions/years really boils down to how far off the fall line they'll go before fighting you. IMO it's the perfect ski for open faces, lines that point to the valley, runs that don't get bumped up, etc. If you see gates in loose glades, it's the ski for you. And it's no coincidence that the guy the ski is named after is a WB local.

    I've never skied the Jeffrey (or Kartel), but it's fairly easy to see that it's aimed at skiers who see the whole mountain as a terrain park. There's no limit on how far out of the fall line you can go.

    So IMO, the Woodsman is a directional ski that is going to be more comfortable out of the fall line than the wren, hence more versatile, but not as spinny/jibby as the Jeffrey (in part due to the mount point). It's a serious contender for the elusive quiver of one ski.
    I have skied the older Jeffrey and I think your general descriptions are pretty spot on.

    One thing that I'll add that I think is an important distinction between the Wren and Kartel/Jeffrey lines is the sidecut type. Wrens have bi-radius sidecut and Kartel/Jeffrey has a hybrid sidecut (elliptical tip, constant radius tail). The older Jeffreys I skied had a full elliptical sidecut. Elliptical sidecut is an interesting thing, in that the more you pressure the ski, the tighter the turn radius gets and the harder it carves. So it's really good for a more playful style where you might want to load up a ski on the lip of a jump and have it help you initiate your spin. I haven't skied the hybrid sidecut but given that the tip is elliptical, it's going to have that feeling at least in the front half of the ski.

    If you're skiing with a more directional, big mountain style, elliptical sidecut is NOT what you want. You want to be able to come fast out of a chute, load the ski hard, and make a big arcing turn. You don't want to load the ski hard and have it tighten up the radius and throw you across the fall line. That's why the Wrens have a bi-radius sidecut. It allows them to make big, fast turns, with the ski heavily loaded.

    The Woodsman also has a bi-radius sidecut, but with a tighter turn radius and more centered mount point than the Wren. In other words, it's going to ski more like a Wren, but not require as much speed/effort to get it to turn. Before a skier that doesn't ski backwards and doesn't spin, but also doesn't want to have to go 30mph at all times and stay mostly committed directly down the fall line, would end up on a Kartel/Jeffrey. Now they have the Woodsman instead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    All ye punterz! Leave thine stupid heavy skis in the past, or at least in the resort category, for the age of lightweight pussy sticks is upon us! Behold! Keep up with the randocommandos on their carbon blades of shortness! Break thine tibias into spiral splinters with pintech extravagance!

  10. #6860
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    LaLa Land
    Posts
    3,172
    Quote Originally Posted by Skeeze View Post
    Comish, what have you thought of your Wren 108s that are mounted on the line? I know the mount point is similar to the Billy Goats, but while the BGs are my favorite skis ever, I’m finding that I may prefer other everyday skis with boot centers more in the -5 to -6 range (I prefer the 187 Meridian 107 to the 184 Wren 108).


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    So I have been debating this for a while and the jury is still out for me. The Sumday after I bought them I scored Sugar Bowl country club style as I80 was closed in both directions. It was deeeep and untracked all day long. One of the best inbounds days of my life ripping around with Mini Comish. I loved them that day. No tip dive with all that tip rocker and the rear mount position.

    I have enjoyed them on other deep days, but came to the conclusion that they weren't fat enough for true Sierra deep days and that something around the 115mm underfoot range would be better, hence my BG purchase. I think this was a result of my storm chase to JH in Feb when they closed the boundaries. We got 24" the first night and 16" the next. I wanted something bigger than the Wren for the mornings of those days and didn't like them in the afternoons once things got a bit bumpy.

    I don't love Wren when things get bumped / tracked. All that tip rocker actually makes the ski hard to engage unless you have it up on edge quite a bit. I will admit to not having figured them out and also wishing they had metal at that point. They didn't feel as damp as I would like, but I will also admit to being tired by the end of the day from a bunch of touring prior to the JH storm cycle and not enought sleep so jury is still out. Keep in mind, I generally love the damp feeling of old Skool Legend Pro's, most recent Monster 98's, and older Stockli Stormriders. Once tracked, I would would rather be on my Qlabs w. metal and less tip rocker.

    So I think my conclusion is the shape of the wren with all that tip rocker and no metal, should be for pow days, and then it might as well be fatter. So if anyone wants to trade a Wren 114 for my 108's, let me know. Jury is ultimately still out though. Sorry long winded answer to the question since I'm still trying to figure it out...
    He who has the most fun wins!

  11. #6861
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    the ham
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    6,251
    Quote Originally Posted by jvskinn View Post
    As an aging Jeffrey owner, that sounds awesome.
    As an aging billy goat and wren skier, I see a woodsman in my future as well.

    @ adrenalated, good summation on how the tech works for the intended usage. I like to think of the people and locations that helped shape some the models as well, so as to gain a little insight on how they might work for me and my limited skill set

  12. #6862
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    2,987
    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    I have skied the older Jeffrey and I think your general descriptions are pretty spot on.

    One thing that I'll add that I think is an important distinction between the Wren and Kartel/Jeffrey lines is the sidecut type. Wrens have bi-radius sidecut and Kartel/Jeffrey has a hybrid sidecut (elliptical tip, constant radius tail). The older Jeffreys I skied had a full elliptical sidecut. Elliptical sidecut is an interesting thing, in that the more you pressure the ski, the tighter the turn radius gets and the harder it carves. So it's really good for a more playful style where you might want to load up a ski on the lip of a jump and have it help you initiate your spin. I haven't skied the hybrid sidecut but given that the tip is elliptical, it's going to have that feeling at least in the front half of the ski.

    If you're skiing with a more directional, big mountain style, elliptical sidecut is NOT what you want. You want to be able to come fast out of a chute, load the ski hard, and make a big arcing turn. You don't want to load the ski hard and have it tighten up the radius and throw you across the fall line. That's why the Wrens have a bi-radius sidecut. It allows them to make big, fast turns, with the ski heavily loaded.

    The Woodsman also has a bi-radius sidecut, but with a tighter turn radius and more centered mount point than the Wren. In other words, it's going to ski more like a Wren, but not require as much speed/effort to get it to turn. Before a skier that doesn't ski backwards and doesn't spin, but also doesn't want to have to go 30mph at all times and stay mostly committed directly down the fall line, would end up on a Kartel/Jeffrey. Now they have the Woodsman instead.
    Scott owes you a sales commission (for Woodsmans sold) for this post

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  13. #6863
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Boise, ID
    Posts
    962
    Quote Originally Posted by iggyskier View Post
    Length wise vs the BG I would size up (guys skiing a 184cm BG would likely want to be on a 187cm Woodsman, 189cm BG on the 192cm Woodsman).
    .
    would you still recommend sizing up if you want the woodsman for a now snow/day after storm skiing?

    at 5í5Ē / 135 skiing the 179 bg I feel like 182 woodsman would be too much ski, Iím currently pretty happy with my 177 og cochise.

  14. #6864
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    107
    Quote Originally Posted by mfa81 View Post
    would you still recommend sizing up if you want the woodsman for a now snow/day after storm skiing?

    at 5í5Ē / 135 skiing the 179 bg I feel like 182 woodsman would be too much ski, Iím currently pretty happy with my 177 og cochise.
    From what I've read on here, I would go 182. It sounds like the Woodsman has a tighter radius and healthy amount of rocker so I don't think it would feel like too much ski after a 179 BG and 177 Coach Cheese.
    I'm 6' and about 30 lbs heavier than you, but ride the 193 Cochise and 189 BG and I know I'd go with the longest Woodsman.
    Long skis truck and short skis suck.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  15. #6865
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    BC
    Posts
    473
    Quote Originally Posted by mfa81 View Post
    would you still recommend sizing up if you want the woodsman for a now snow/day after storm skiing?

    at 5’5” / 135 skiing the 179 bg I feel like 182 woodsman would be too much ski, I’m currently pretty happy with my 177 og cochise.
    Dont get the 182 if you’re happy with your cochise.
    177 will be plenty.

  16. #6866
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    107
    All this Wrenegade and Wren Ti talk has me reminiscing. Plenty of Wren + pow stoke from January here in this video.

    Cheers!

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  17. #6867
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Portland
    Posts
    2,986
    Quote Originally Posted by mfa81 View Post
    would you still recommend sizing up if you want the woodsman for a now snow/day after storm skiing?

    at 5’5” / 135 skiing the 179 bg I feel like 182 woodsman would be too much ski, I’m currently pretty happy with my 177 og cochise.
    I'd go 177cm. You are a bit outlier on sizing with the 179cm BG. I think you would be set on the 177cm Woodsman.
    Seriously, this canít turn into yet another ON3P thread....

  18. #6868
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    BC
    Posts
    473
    Iggy, when will the new custom builder be up on the site?

  19. #6869
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Portland
    Posts
    2,986
    Quote Originally Posted by mr_pretzel View Post
    Iggy, when will the new custom builder be up on the site?
    About a week.
    Seriously, this canít turn into yet another ON3P thread....

  20. #6870
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    18
    Quick question, Iím a racer looking to buy a set of Woodsman 96s as my one ski quiver for the Midwest (upper lower Michigan) as well as a bit of skiing in the Rockies. Iím about 5í7Ē 125lbs (and still growing) and a very aggressive skier that prefers a slightly long, but still maneuverable ski. As far as sizing goes, would you go for the 172, 177, or 182? I have tried a few of my friendsí Kartels in the 161 and 176 and love them both, super stoked to get a pair of my own this summer

  21. #6871
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    180
    Depends on a few factors.

    How much you think youíll grow and how long you want them to last being one of them. I would likely rule out the 182cm. If youíre 14 and going to grow 5 inches by next winter that could change things.

    The 172cm will be more lively and playful and likely stable enough for the moment.

    The 177 will have more top end and likely be better once youíve added a few inches. At your weight it might not be all that playful for the moment. It will ski a bit longer than the 176cm Kartel so keep that in mind if the Kartel felt like a bit of work.

    Quote Originally Posted by willgoelz View Post
    Quick question, Iím a racer looking to buy a set of Woodsman 96s as my one ski quiver for the Midwest (upper lower Michigan) as well as a bit of skiing in the Rockies. Iím about 5í7Ē 125lbs (and still growing) and a very aggressive skier that prefers a slightly long, but still maneuverable ski. As far as sizing goes, would you go for the 172, 177, or 182? I have tried a few of my friendsí Kartels in the 161 and 176 and love them both, super stoked to get a pair of my own this summer

  22. #6872
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    114
    Whats the weight for the cease and desist in 184 or 189? Anyone have their pair on a scale? I figured it would be listed on the 2020 page but its still not on there.

    My apologies if someone already asked this, but I've scoured this thread and can't find it anywhere.

  23. #6873
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by Tailwind View Post
    Depends on a few factors.

    How much you think youíll grow and how long you want them to last being one of them. I would likely rule out the 182cm. If youíre 14 and going to grow 5 inches by next winter that could change things.

    The 172cm will be more lively and playful and likely stable enough for the moment.

    The 177 will have more top end and likely be better once youíve added a few inches. At your weight it might not be all that playful for the moment. It will ski a bit longer than the 176cm Kartel so keep that in mind if the Kartel felt like a bit of work.
    Thanks for the help

  24. #6874
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Lapping the pow with the GSA in the PNW
    Posts
    3,003
    Quote Originally Posted by TeleBeaver View Post
    Whats the weight for the cease and desist in 184 or 189? Anyone have their pair on a scale? I figured it would be listed on the 2020 page but its still not on there.

    My apologies if someone already asked this, but I've scoured this thread and can't find it anywhere.
    Iíve got some 189ís with STH2 13ís on them. I can weigh them and subtract the known binding weight and get you in the ballpark.
    In constant pursuit of the perfect slarve...

  25. #6875
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Portland
    Posts
    2,986
    Quote Originally Posted by TeleBeaver View Post
    Whats the weight for the cease and desist in 184 or 189? Anyone have their pair on a scale? I figured it would be listed on the 2020 page but its still not on there.

    My apologies if someone already asked this, but I've scoured this thread and can't find it anywhere.
    2019 production run came in averaging at 2330 for 184 and 2410 for 189.
    Seriously, this canít turn into yet another ON3P thread....

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