ON3P SKIS Discussion

[PowTron]

Wren 108's most of the time, at least from what I saw.

That would be correct. Josh only skis Wren 108 these days.

Strange because I know with the rocker and crazy short length of 184 vs 191 that should be impossible

[PowTron]

And the ON3P rider on FTW uses super stiff billy goats

Yes, Dennis skis on the prototype Supergoat and some extra stiff 189 BG.

[TAFKALVS]

That would be correct. Josh only skis Wren 108 these days.

Strange because I know with the rocker and crazy short length of 184 vs 191 that should be impossible

Does he know that he dentists on TGR all know he's a poser due to the lack 19x?

Yes, Dennis skis on the prototype Supergoat and some extra stiff 189 BG.

I bet his wins have only been on the 19x+

[uglymoney]

Question for Powtron or Iggy or other ON3P official or unofficial reps. Do you guys sell the Kartels to non park peeps? I can't ski park, I am wary of the center mount, I don't like the softer tail, but I like the talk of smearability and the shorter turn radius than the Wren 98. I read that the Wren 108 sounds a bit more user friendly but with my middle ageish knees and its even longer turn radius I feel like I want the 98 Wren instead of the 108 to fill the gap between my Brahma and Billy Goat. I am considering other brands as well but I love the dampness (among other things) of ON3P's so I keep steering myself back to your store. I really want something that I can ski bumps with a little bit because I still enjoy them, but something that can also handle hard snow on top and slush at the bottom - and something that can rip an afternoon pow storm or blow in...on a soft day with am fresh I will be on my BG's anyway. My limited experience with junk park skis is that they fall down completely on hard/iceish snow. My Brahma's are shortish for me at 180 and they kill the hard snow at the top of the mountain but at my size I get crushed when the snow is punchy or slushy and I hate the metal in the bumps...and the short length when I want to go fast on the flats.

So do I consider the Kartel or not? I almost made a demo last year but just missed it by a day. I just don't want to get into the Wren 98 and end up with a ski that just wants to go fast with a tail that doesn't want to release when my form goes to shit which happens more than it used to.

Also 6' 1.5 197 formerly pretty strong skier. Hopefully back at it this year. Shopping 184 Wren not sure between 186 and 181 Kartel.

[shroom]

unofficial workplace rep

definitely go longer on the kartel if you land that way. my 191 caylor feel super short. i say that in a positive light, though. also versatile as hell. on the contrary, i'm getting really sick of skiing bumps on my 193 cochise, and will probably be seeking a shorter replacement.

[Island Bay]

If considering other brands, possibly give Praxis MVP a look. Similar ski, but not quite as centre mounted (-6). Plenty of backbone, but probably a little poppier and less damp. (Kartels look fun, though. And Wren 108s have me drooling)

[SupreChicken]

Unofficial as well. Plenty of trad skiers here who never ski park rave about the kartel. I would say go for it.

[TAFKALVS]

I'm a very trad skier, really liked the 186 Kartel 108 mounted back from recommended. XavierD - where did you put me on those? -2? -4?

[Gman]

Question for Powtron or Iggy or other ON3P official or unofficial reps. Do you guys sell the Kartels to non park peeps? I can't ski park, I am wary of the center mount, I don't like the softer tail, but I like the talk of smearability and the shorter turn radius than the Wren 98. I read that the Wren 108 sounds a bit more user friendly but with my middle ageish knees and its even longer turn radius I feel like I want the 98 Wren instead of the 108 to fill the gap between my Brahma and Billy Goat. I am considering other brands as well but I love the dampness (among other things) of ON3P's so I keep steering myself back to your store. I really want something that I can ski bumps with a little bit because I still enjoy them, but something that can also handle hard snow on top and slush at the bottom - and something that can rip an afternoon pow storm or blow in...on a soft day with am fresh I will be on my BG's anyway. My limited experience with junk park skis is that they fall down completely on hard/iceish snow. My Brahma's are shortish for me at 180 and they kill the hard snow at the top of the mountain but at my size I get crushed when the snow is punchy or slushy and I hate the metal in the bumps...and the short length when I want to go fast on the flats.

So do I consider the Kartel or not? I almost made a demo last year but just missed it by a day. I just don't want to get into the Wren 98 and end up with a ski that just wants to go fast with a tail that doesn't want to release when my form goes to shit which happens more than it used to.

Also 6' 1.5 197 formerly pretty strong skier. Hopefully back at it this year. Shopping 184 Wren not sure between 186 and 181 Kartel.

Where will you be skiing? I've got a pair of veneer kartel 98's in 181 for my fun snow days, does fine on the hard pack but for the firmer days I like how the flatter tail of the wren 98 releases. The tails on the kartel will release easier while the wren will hold a turn better. For your height and weight I'd go 184 wren or 186 kartel. Pm me if you have more questions.

[auvgeek]

Question for Powtron or Iggy or other ON3P official or unofficial reps. Do you guys sell the Kartels to non park peeps? I can't ski park, I am wary of the center mount, I don't like the softer tail, but I like the talk of smearability and the shorter turn radius than the Wren 98. I read that the Wren 108 sounds a bit more user friendly but with my middle ageish knees and its even longer turn radius I feel like I want the 98 Wren instead of the 108 to fill the gap between my Brahma and Billy Goat. I am considering other brands as well but I love the dampness (among other things) of ON3P's so I keep steering myself back to your store. I really want something that I can ski bumps with a little bit because I still enjoy them, but something that can also handle hard snow on top and slush at the bottom - and something that can rip an afternoon pow storm or blow in...on a soft day with am fresh I will be on my BG's anyway. My limited experience with junk park skis is that they fall down completely on hard/iceish snow. My Brahma's are shortish for me at 180 and they kill the hard snow at the top of the mountain but at my size I get crushed when the snow is punchy or slushy and I hate the metal in the bumps...and the short length when I want to go fast on the flats.

So do I consider the Kartel or not? I almost made a demo last year but just missed it by a day. I just don't want to get into the Wren 98 and end up with a ski that just wants to go fast with a tail that doesn't want to release when my form goes to shit which happens more than it used to.

Also 6' 1.5 197 formerly pretty strong skier. Hopefully back at it this year. Shopping 184 Wren not sure between 186 and 181 Kartel.

I would bet you would prefer the Wren 98 over the K98, and that's from someone who generally prefers more progressive mount points.

The new Wren 98 is not hard to ski by any means, even easier than the Wren 108. IMO, the biggest difference between the Wren and Kartel series' is the mount point. None of the Wrenegades are really big mountain guns like the big "Wren" used to be. They all have quite a bit of tip and tail rocker and taper now. So the tail definitely doesn't stay locked in on turns. I don't think the Wren skis all that differently from the Kartel, to be honest.

But if you're willing to change your style or experiment a bit, I personally find a more progressive mount with less tip is easier to handle in bumps. In which case, the Kartel could be your ticket. It would be pretty different than the Brahma...either a good thing for quiver diversity—Kartels would be better in bumps and the tails would definitely release easier—or a bad thing because you have to change your style whenever you change skis. Bottom line: Wren 98 is a safe bet for a skier who likes traditional mounts and is certainly not hard to ski but the Kartel would be an experiment that you may really enjoy. If you decide Kartel, definitely go 186. Can't speak to mounting back -2 or -4, so maybe LVS and XavierD can chime in there.

[Kootenai]

Question for Powtron or Iggy or other ON3P official or unofficial reps. Do you guys sell the Kartels to non park peeps? I can't ski park, I am wary of the center mount, I don't like the softer tail, but I like the talk of smearability and the shorter turn radius than the Wren 98. I read that the Wren 108 sounds a bit more user friendly but with my middle ageish knees and its even longer turn radius I feel like I want the 98 Wren instead of the 108 to fill the gap between my Brahma and Billy Goat. I am considering other brands as well but I love the dampness (among other things) of ON3P's so I keep steering myself back to your store. I really want something that I can ski bumps with a little bit because I still enjoy them, but something that can also handle hard snow on top and slush at the bottom - and something that can rip an afternoon pow storm or blow in...on a soft day with am fresh I will be on my BG's anyway. My limited experience with junk park skis is that they fall down completely on hard/iceish snow. My Brahma's are shortish for me at 180 and they kill the hard snow at the top of the mountain but at my size I get crushed when the snow is punchy or slushy and I hate the metal in the bumps...and the short length when I want to go fast on the flats.

So do I consider the Kartel or not? I almost made a demo last year but just missed it by a day. I just don't want to get into the Wren 98 and end up with a ski that just wants to go fast with a tail that doesn't want to release when my form goes to shit which happens more than it used to.

Also 6' 1.5 197 formerly pretty strong skier. Hopefully back at it this year. Shopping 184 Wren not sure between 186 and 181 Kartel.

I resemble that profile. I pulled the trigger on a pair of 108 184 Wrens with an extra layer of carbon. LOVE THEM. Only have 3 days on them, but they will be my daily driver in the Inland NW. I tried many varieties of non directional skis (Kartel, Jeffrey, PBJ, Bibby) decided that isn't my style. The 108's charge, make a great turn shape when you want and fly through whatever when you don't want to turn. I was worried they would feel short but with the extra carbon, they feel just right. FWIW, It's a different model year but the Swap (kai ski) has a good deal right now that may help you pull the trigger.

[uglymoney]

I would bet you would prefer the Wren 98 over the K98, and that's from someone who generally prefers more progressive mount points.

The new Wren 98 is not hard to ski by any means, even easier than the Wren 108. IMO, the biggest difference between the Wren and Kartel series' is the mount point. None of the Wrenegades are really big mountain guns like the big "Wren" used to be. They all have quite a bit of tip and tail rocker and taper now. So the tail definitely doesn't stay locked in on turns. I don't think the Wren skis all that differently from the Kartel, to be honest.

Wow so many great responses from everybody. Thanks...I went from slalom sets on the lake to playing soccer dad but wanted to quote this one quick. That analysis has me leaning back to the Wren.

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[uglymoney]

I resemble that profile. I pulled the trigger on a pair of 108 184 Wrens with an extra layer of carbon. LOVE THEM. Only have 3 days on them, but they will be my daily driver in the Inland NW. I tried many varieties of non directional skis (Kartel, Jeffrey, PBJ, Bibby) decided that isn't my style. The 108's charge, make a great turn shape when you want and fly through whatever when you don't want to turn. I was worried they would feel short but with the extra carbon, they feel just right. FWIW, It's a different model year but the Swap (kai ski) has a good deal right now that may help you pull the trigger.

My now 6 foot tall 15 yr old stepson has some 102 Wrens in 179 (like Kai is selling) and he loves them, rips them. Despite my best efforts to create a shadow of myself he skis nothing like me and I can't get into the binders to try them for the time being so other than to note how much he likes them it isn't helping me decide (:

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[adrenalated]

Ugly, I agree with what others have posted - you will prefer the wrens. In fact the current design of the wren 98 is basically made for guys like you.

[DaveJR]

[Gman]

Also, always mount your stuff on the line for ON3P

[TahoeJ]

https://shop.on3pskis.com/products/t...re_looking_for

Okay, that's pretty hilarious.

[2FUNKY]

HAH!

[SB]

You'd think for that much they could do a better top deck.

[PowTron]

You'd think for that much they could do a better top deck.

That's one of our most popular topsheets ever. Worth at LEAST $2,567.22 of that cost.

[PowTron]

Wow so many great responses from everybody. Thanks...I went from slalom sets on the lake to playing soccer dad but wanted to quote this one quick. That analysis has me leaning back to the Wren.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

Ugly,

Some others have said it, but the Wren 98 is a great choice for what you are describing.

With that said, the Kartels are absolutely not just for park (especially the Kartel 108/116). We have many customers and employees that ski the K108 as a daily driver and with the slightly lower tail than previous versions it rails groomers and skis exceptionally well going forward.

The mounting position isn't centered, but it's farther forward than Wrenegades, absolutely (Kartel 108 @ -4.5cm in 186 from core center).

As for them skiing the same between the Kartels and wrens I would tend to disagree, but everyone has their own style and stance (or extra stiff Kartels/Jeffries)

All that spewed, the Wren 98 is your perfect ski for what you described and we made it just for your requests.

[CaliBrit]

I would bet you would prefer the Wren 98 over the K98, and that's from someone who generally prefers more progressive mount points.

The new Wren 98 is not hard to ski by any means, even easier than the Wren 108. IMO, the biggest difference between the Wren and Kartel series' is the mount point. None of the Wrenegades are really big mountain guns like the big "Wren" used to be. They all have quite a bit of tip and tail rocker and taper now. So the tail definitely doesn't stay locked in on turns. I don't think the Wren skis all that differently from the Kartel, to be honest.

But if you're willing to change your style or experiment a bit, I personally find a more progressive mount with less tip is easier to handle in bumps. In which case, the Kartel could be your ticket. It would be pretty different than the Brahma...either a good thing for quiver diversity—Kartels would be better in bumps and the tails would definitely release easier—or a bad thing because you have to change your style whenever you change skis. Bottom line: Wren 98 is a safe bet for a skier who likes traditional mounts and is certainly not hard to ski but the Kartel would be an experiment that you may really enjoy. If you decide Kartel, definitely go 186. Can't speak to mounting back -2 or -4, so maybe LVS and XavierD can chime in there.

I have some Kartel 116 mounted with Jester Demo's once the season gets swinging here in Sun Valley I will be playing with mount and will report in!

[XavierD]

I'm a very trad skier, really liked the 186 Kartel 108 mounted back from recommended. XavierD - where did you put me on those? -2? -4?

2cm back from recommended

[Joey311]

Question for Powtron or Iggy or other ON3P official or unofficial reps. Do you guys sell the Kartels to non park peeps? I can't ski park, I am wary of the center mount, I don't like the softer tail, but I like the talk of smearability and the shorter turn radius than the Wren 98. I read that the Wren 108 sounds a bit more user friendly but with my middle ageish knees and its even longer turn radius I feel like I want the 98 Wren instead of the 108 to fill the gap between my Brahma and Billy Goat. I am considering other brands as well but I love the dampness (among other things) of ON3P's so I keep steering myself back to your store. I really want something that I can ski bumps with a little bit because I still enjoy them, but something that can also handle hard snow on top and slush at the bottom - and something that can rip an afternoon pow storm or blow in...on a soft day with am fresh I will be on my BG's anyway. My limited experience with junk park skis is that they fall down completely on hard/iceish snow. My Brahma's are shortish for me at 180 and they kill the hard snow at the top of the mountain but at my size I get crushed when the snow is punchy or slushy and I hate the metal in the bumps...and the short length when I want to go fast on the flats.

So do I consider the Kartel or not? I almost made a demo last year but just missed it by a day. I just don't want to get into the Wren 98 and end up with a ski that just wants to go fast with a tail that doesn't want to release when my form goes to shit which happens more than it used to.

Also 6' 1.5 197 formerly pretty strong skier. Hopefully back at it this year. Shopping 184 Wren not sure between 186 and 181 Kartel.

Like you I’m a traditional skier, and well into middle-age. Unlike you I am 5'7" 145lb. Last season and I spent quite a few days demoing ON3P skis, so maybe this will help.


As far as your concern that the Wren 98 has a "tail that doesn't want to release". The one thing that really surprised me about the Wren 98 was how easy it was to smear and slarve. I expected the tail to be quite a bit more "locked in". This ski probably has more tip rocker than any other ski in its class.....and also has a decent amount of tail rocker. I skied them on a day with 8 inches of new and it was all the powder ski I needed. I’ve got a 88, 108 (Wren) and 116 (BG) so no need for a 98 in my quiver. But deciding between the 98 and the 108 for my middle ski was tough. Also the 174 was recommended for my height/weight, but I felt they skied short and definitely preferred the 179.

[auvgeek]

As for them skiing the same between the Kartels and wrens I would tend to disagree, but everyone has their own style and stance (or extra stiff Kartels/Jeffries)

To be fair, I was comparing stock versions based on a LL demo day in subpar conditions. I might be a slight exaggeration to say they ski the same, but my point was I found the mount point to be the most noticeable difference, not the flex or the way the tail released, etc. I should also clarify that my impressions were limited to 2D snow.