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  1. #7726
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    SEA>DEN>Spokanistan
    Posts
    1,402
    Quote Originally Posted by brundo View Post
    The ski would be for central idaho. I do a lot of tree skiing (sometimes very tight trees) and do my best to find the steep stuff but it can be kinda hard (mountains just aren't as steep here). Will be doing 1-3 annual trips to Grand Targhee/Jackson Hole or the SLC resorts. I ski hard (I think) and will do 20' cliffs but not much of a flipper/spinner. Spend 90% of my time off piste. Looking for something to compliment the Praxis MVP I have now and replace my Nocta Air for the resort.
    If you can make it up to the panhandle you can take my 189’s for a spin. 317 BSL with room to go smaller.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  2. #7727
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    415
    Quote Originally Posted by detuned View Post
    the billy goat will treat you well
    Will it compliment the MVP very well though? 6 mm difference underfoot doesn't seem like a big enough difference between a daily driver (MVP) and a pow ski. ON3P describes the C&D as the same sidecut as the BG but with a tour layup (softer?). Seems like a good fit.

  3. #7728
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    415
    Quote Originally Posted by SkiLyft View Post
    If you can make it up to the panhandle you can take my 189’s for a spin. 317 BSL with room to go smaller.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    I'll actually be up in Spokanistan/Sandpoint in a month but what bindings do you have on there? I just have Salomon SLabs so iso 9523 sole.

  4. #7729
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Your Mom's House
    Posts
    6,617
    Quote Originally Posted by brundo View Post
    Will it compliment the MVP very well though? 6 mm difference underfoot doesn't seem like a big enough difference between a daily driver (MVP) and a pow ski
    Waist width is not the primary factor in how a ski feels on snow. The BG and the MVP are drastically different shapes and will excel in different conditions. The MVP is a much more versatile mixed conditions/all-around/hard snow ski, the BG is a much better 3D snow ski.
    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    All ye punterz! Leave thine stupid heavy skis in the past, or at least in the resort category, for the age of lightweight pussy sticks is upon us! Behold! Keep up with the randocommandos on their carbon blades of shortness! Break thine tibias into spiral splinters with pintech extravagance!

  5. #7730
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    415
    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    Waist width is not the primary factor in how a ski feels on snow. The BG and the MVP are drastically different shapes and will excel in different conditions. The MVP is a much more versatile mixed conditions/all-around/hard snow ski, the BG is a much better 3D snow ski.
    Makes sense. So for a 2 ski quiver, a MVP and a BG isn't that crazy? I don't have a narrower ski cause if the conditions are icy I go touring.

  6. #7731
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Your Mom's House
    Posts
    6,617
    Quote Originally Posted by brundo View Post
    Makes sense. So for a 2 ski quiver, a MVP and a BG isn't that crazy? I don't have a narrower ski cause if the conditions are icy I go touring.
    Not crazy at all. For a long time my two ski inbounds quiver was BGs and Wren112s. Those are only 4mm different in waist, but again, very different in design and how they feel on snow. I've now added Woodsmen 108s to the mix but not because the Wren112s lacked in hard snow performance, it was because I'm old and lazy and the Wrens are too much work sometimes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    All ye punterz! Leave thine stupid heavy skis in the past, or at least in the resort category, for the age of lightweight pussy sticks is upon us! Behold! Keep up with the randocommandos on their carbon blades of shortness! Break thine tibias into spiral splinters with pintech extravagance!

  7. #7732
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    SEA>DEN>Spokanistan
    Posts
    1,402
    Quote Originally Posted by brundo View Post
    I'll actually be up in Spokanistan/Sandpoint in a month but what bindings do you have on there? I just have Salomon SLabs so iso 9523 sole.
    I actually have both the goats and C&Ds. Inserts for shift which is MNC and will work with your boots. Send me a PM and we can get you on them.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  8. #7733
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    745
    I finally got to take my woodsman116s out in decent snow yesterday. I started the day on BMT122s and 4FRNT Hojis (both mounted w/Tectons) while the snow was fresh, then took out the Woodsies when things started getting tracked out.

    First impression: winner. They had a fair bit of umph, took kindly to being driven/ridden with a centered stance and released nicely. In spite of my legs being somewhat spent, the heavier woods+castified pivots combo was pretty easy to ski (if not as mindnumbling easy/intuitive as Hoji/Tectons that might be the easiest to ski pow ski I have yet to try). I think woods116s will be a riot as I grow used to them.

    The plan today was to try woods116s back to back with BGs, but alas - we had a change of weather turning pow to wet, moist, dense shait of the sort that wrecks knees. That is, the top was ok - the bottom half pure shait/survival skiing -> not worth it, so groomers ftw. Oh well, at least I got to try woods108s a bit more. I am also quite pleased with them thus far.

    Have anyone experimented with the mount point on woodsman108/116s? Say at a cm or a cm and a half back?

  9. #7734
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    581
    Quote Originally Posted by brundo View Post
    Makes sense. So for a 2 ski quiver, a MVP and a BG isn't that crazy? I don't have a narrower ski cause if the conditions are icy I go touring.
    They will work nicely together. The BG can be skied all day on softer days.

    The C&D will also work, but it depends on how fast your mountain gets skied out, and if you're willing to change skis during the day. For me the C&D gets too cumbersome late in the day.

    MVP/BG could get 50/50 use, MVP/C&D maybe 80/20

  10. #7735
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Your Mom's House
    Posts
    6,617
    Quote Originally Posted by kid-kapow View Post
    Have anyone experimented with the mount point on woodsman108/116s? Say at a cm or a cm and a half back?
    I mounted back 1cm on my Woods108s. I did this because I'm very much an old school, shin-on-boots sort of skier and I knew I'd prefer them there, despite wanting a more center mounted ski than my Wrens. I like them there, but the line is going to be the way to go for 99.9% of people that buy a Woodsmen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    All ye punterz! Leave thine stupid heavy skis in the past, or at least in the resort category, for the age of lightweight pussy sticks is upon us! Behold! Keep up with the randocommandos on their carbon blades of shortness! Break thine tibias into spiral splinters with pintech extravagance!

  11. #7736
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Evergreen
    Posts
    106

    ON3P SKIS Discussion

    Absolutely love my 184 BG touring setup but my new 189 BG alpine setup is my new favorite!
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  12. #7737
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    panhandle locdog
    Posts
    6,737
    Those are beautiful skis.

  13. #7738
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Golden, CO
    Posts
    1,933
    seriously.
    I'll keep an eye out for those at Loveland.

  14. #7739
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    293
    After taking a few days to get a feel for them, I fell hard for the 2015 191 BG's 2funky sold me last year so I thought the new tech that makes groomers easier and the bigger footprint would make the new Cease and Desist the ultimate for the lower angle pow I ski a lot.

    I've got one full day on my new 189 C&D's, one where I started on the C&D and finished on the BG and one where I started on the BG and finished on the C&D trying to get a fair comparison. Days were mostly-untracked (6-10") in-resort skiing. More trees than open bowls but some of both.

    Verdict so far:

    -Love the aesthetics! Green base, green edges, wood veneer, wolf graphics.
    -They are fast in the low angle but not appreciably faster than the BG's.
    -Speed and steeps help the C&D to come alive.
    -The BG seems a little looser at lower speeds.
    -C&Ds definitely "carve" better and handle groomer turning better than BG.
    -C&Ds land in soft snow like velvet.
    -I miss is the more poppy/playful nature of the BG that inspires me to rage more.
    -The C&D is a bit more work and feel like a lot of ski if things get tight in a hurry. The BG can be whipped around easier if things get crazy.
    -The C&D is definitely stiffer (on the snow and hand flexing) than the BG's, maybe my Goats are just well worn-in?
    -The ATT/OTS tech works and is kind of cool. You'll know pretty quick if you have them on the wrong feet.
    -Snow doesn't stick to the topsheet of the C&D very much-nice.

    Don't get me wrong, they are really good, maybe just not the more perfect than perfect (for me) that I was hoping for. I see myself reaching for the Goats most of the time...

    Questions I've been pondering:

    Do I need more time on snow to sort the C&D out? Is my scrawny old beat up ass just too weak?
    Do I need to reserve them (or at least try them out) for really deep days?
    Do I need to lick my wounds and move on?

  15. #7740
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Golden, CO
    Posts
    1,933
    Just move on.

    Send those C&Ds to me for disposal.

  16. #7741
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    The Chicken Coop, Seattle
    Posts
    2,687
    Quote Originally Posted by Utagonian View Post
    After taking a few days to get a feel for them, I fell hard for the 2015 191 BG's 2funky sold me last year so I thought the new tech that makes groomers easier and the bigger footprint would make the new Cease and Desist the ultimate for the lower angle pow I ski a lot.

    I've got one full day on my new 189 C&D's, one where I started on the C&D and finished on the BG and one where I started on the BG and finished on the C&D trying to get a fair comparison. Days were mostly-untracked (6-10") in-resort skiing. More trees than open bowls but some of both.

    Verdict so far:

    -Love the aesthetics! Green base, green edges, wood veneer, wolf graphics.
    -They are fast in the low angle but not appreciably faster than the BG's.
    -Speed and steeps help the C&D to come alive.
    -The BG seems a little looser at lower speeds.
    -C&Ds definitely "carve" better and handle groomer turning better than BG.
    -C&Ds land in soft snow like velvet.
    -I miss is the more poppy/playful nature of the BG that inspires me to rage more.
    -The C&D is a bit more work and feel like a lot of ski if things get tight in a hurry. The BG can be whipped around easier if things get crazy.
    -The C&D is definitely stiffer (on the snow and hand flexing) than the BG's, maybe my Goats are just well worn-in?
    -The ATT/OTS tech works and is kind of cool. You'll know pretty quick if you have them on the wrong feet.
    -Snow doesn't stick to the topsheet of the C&D very much-nice.

    Don't get me wrong, they are really good, maybe just not the more perfect than perfect (for me) that I was hoping for. I see myself reaching for the Goats most of the time...

    Questions I've been pondering:

    Do I need more time on snow to sort the C&D out? Is my scrawny old beat up ass just too weak?
    Do I need to reserve them (or at least try them out) for really deep days?
    Do I need to lick my wounds and move on?
    I dunno. I really dig both. Give em another try before you like the wounds. Get them out on an 18” day.

    Of these three:

    2018 189 BG
    2019 189 CD
    2014 191 BG

    The CD and 191 are both better for me than the 189 BG.
    wait!!!! waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait...Wait!
    Zoolander wasn't a documentary?

  17. #7742
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    210
    Quote Originally Posted by Utagonian View Post
    After taking a few days to get a feel for them, I fell hard for the 2015 191 BG's 2funky sold me last year so I thought the new tech that makes groomers easier and the bigger footprint would make the new Cease and Desist the ultimate for the lower angle pow I ski a lot.

    I've got one full day on my new 189 C&D's, one where I started on the C&D and finished on the BG and one where I started on the BG and finished on the C&D trying to get a fair comparison. Days were mostly-untracked (6-10") in-resort skiing. More trees than open bowls but some of both.

    Verdict so far:

    -Love the aesthetics! Green base, green edges, wood veneer, wolf graphics.
    -They are fast in the low angle but not appreciably faster than the BG's.
    -Speed and steeps help the C&D to come alive.
    -The BG seems a little looser at lower speeds.
    -C&Ds definitely "carve" better and handle groomer turning better than BG.
    -C&Ds land in soft snow like velvet.
    -I miss is the more poppy/playful nature of the BG that inspires me to rage more.
    -The C&D is a bit more work and feel like a lot of ski if things get tight in a hurry. The BG can be whipped around easier if things get crazy.
    -The C&D is definitely stiffer (on the snow and hand flexing) than the BG's, maybe my Goats are just well worn-in?
    -The ATT/OTS tech works and is kind of cool. You'll know pretty quick if you have them on the wrong feet.
    -Snow doesn't stick to the topsheet of the C&D very much-nice.

    Don't get me wrong, they are really good, maybe just not the more perfect than perfect (for me) that I was hoping for. I see myself reaching for the Goats most of the time...

    Questions I've been pondering:

    Do I need more time on snow to sort the C&D out? Is my scrawny old beat up ass just too weak?
    Do I need to reserve them (or at least try them out) for really deep days?
    Do I need to lick my wounds and move on?
    I’d give them a few full days to get to know them better before making a call. The C&D is a lucky few days a year ski for most people. You are also comparing the widest, most powder oriented ski in the line to another wide powder oriented ski, the 2015 BG. The BG has had updates that improved hard snow performance since yours too. 2019 189 BG too similar? Why no on a Woodsman 116?

  18. #7743
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    SEA>DEN>Spokanistan
    Posts
    1,402

    ON3P SKIS Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Utagonian View Post
    See below
    I’ll comment on my experiences as well — 4 days on C&Ds.
    - 8” thick hot creamy pow
    - 6” + 6” of dry new storm pow
    - 18” of set up pow lighter density pow
    - 10” of new lighter density pow with that got super chopped up as the day went on.


    “Speed and steeps help the C&D to come alive” — THISSSSS, the run where they “clicked” was a steep fast roller line. The more speed you have the more alive they feel.

    “The BG seems a little looser at lower speeds” — 100%, less ski to swing around and manage.

    “C&Ds land in soft snow like velvet” agreed they are effortless to land on — stop machines!

    “I miss is the more poppy/playful nature of the BG that inspires me to rage more” — I completely agree here, maybe my legs are wearing out as the day goes on but last week pulled the goats on a day I’d normally grab the C&Ds and had significantly more fun that day — it was the 3rd day in a row skiing so maybe the lighter platform was easier to ski. Idk...

    “The C&D is a bit more work and feel like a lot of ski if things get tight in a hurry. The BG can be whipped around easier if things get crazy” - I haven’t had this experience, they’re very manageable in tighter stuff, but maybe that’s why I feel the goats want to rally... maybe I’m always holding the C&Ds back... hmmm. Now agreed that as snow gets chopped they can work you but that’s a big ski for ya.

    “The C&D is definitely stiffer (on the snow and hand flexing) than the BG's, maybe my Goats are just well worn-in” — that gen goat is quite a bit softer than current gen.


    For me I’m seeing that the C&D will be good for these conditions.
    - weekday skiing when the snow is >12” and won’t get schralped by 10:30.
    - cat skiing when you will never deal with snow getting tracked out.

    Anything else the Goat is just far superior, the goat let’s you have loads of fun in untracked snow but when the resort gets chewed up the fun continues on and honestly just gets better.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  19. #7744
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    415
    This is going to come off as a jong in this thread but can someone go over the differences between the current gen and the last gen of the BG? I'm remembering that one difference is the last gen is little softer felx so maybe a little more soft snow oriented?

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  20. #7745
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    151
    Hmm this C&D talk has me thinking. I've been dreaming about a custom pair for next season, but you guys have me considering the billygoat. I'll be living at Alta, so there is a high probability I will be skiing a lot of pow. I currently ski 184 wren 96s when it doesn't snow, and 190 Deathwishes when it does, with a pair of blue megawatts filling the "3 days a year" slot. With the 3 day a year slot maybe changing to 10-15 days a year with the move from Crested Butte back to Utah, I was justifying the upgrade and was naturally thinking about a ski with similar girth. Is the C&D so much ski that I will be hurting when things get tracked at 10:30 like they do in lcc, or is it worth it for the extra untracked performance? I was also considering the 184 since they are trad mounted and have so much surface area to begin with. If you can't justify owning a pair of C&D in Utah, where can you??

  21. #7746
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    MiZZZZoula
    Posts
    3,139
    If anyone is looking for some 191 Wrenegades/ Wrens I've got some with your name on them.

    https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...-191cm-2011-12



    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
    Last edited by FreakofSnow; 01-17-2020 at 02:36 PM.

  22. #7747
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    7B Selkirks USA
    Posts
    720
    191 Billy Goats on GS, get em while they’re hot. 191 CM ON3P Billy Goats Bear Claw Edition
    https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...d.php?t=332724

  23. #7748
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    581
    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    I mounted back 1cm on my Woods108s. I did this because I'm very much an old school, shin-on-boots sort of skier and I knew I'd prefer them there, despite wanting a more center mounted ski than my Wrens. I like them there, but the line is going to be the way to go for 99.9% of people that buy a Woodsmen.
    Quick comparison to your Wrens? Lengths and vintage etc? Guess both are stock? How are the Woods in tighter terrain?

  24. #7749
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by brundo View Post
    This is going to come off as a jong in this thread but can someone go over the differences between the current gen and the last gen of the BG? I'm remembering that one difference is the last gen is little softer felx so maybe a little more soft snow oriented?

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


    12/13, 13/14, 14/15
    Not first BG, but the breakthrough design.

    15/16
    Same as above, but -2cm tail rocker (191cm to 189 etc…)

    16/17
    Same as above, but with an added straight section underfoot before RES.

    17/18, 18/19, 19/20
    Asym tips and update to straight section underfoot

    20/21
    New tweak that makes me get that cat camo

  25. #7750
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    1,616

    ON3P SKIS Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by sf View Post
    Quick comparison to your Wrens? Lengths and vintage etc? Guess both are stock? How are the Woods in tighter terrain?
    Yes, where are the Woodsman reviews at, especially from those coming from Wrens. I assume most sized up?

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