2016 Lange XT Freetour

[dkny2la]

FYI - from Blister's review: http://blistergearreview.com/gear-re...-freetour-lv/2

[galibier_numero_un]

Assuming the Look 12 bindings you rented aren't the WTR version, the shop was negligent in not having you sign a waver. If that's the case (non-WTR binding), I don't see Lange as being responsible.

I lose track of which of the softer, lighter plastics is used in which touring boot, but I think the Lange is Grilamid (I think it's mentioned earlier in this thread). In any case, the plastic is a bit softer than polyurethane used in alpine boots, and it and does "dent" a bit with some bindings. This is typical of most touring boots - a trade-off for reduced weight.

If you're jamming it into a non-WTR compatible binding (lower toe height/clearance), I can see where the top lip of the toe might deform. The heel is a bit of a surprise, however. Perhaps someone more familiar with Looks can comment. I had some Marker Dukes that dented the heels of a pair of Garmonts a while back.

WTR compatibility is the main reason I've been cautious about doing a ski demo - in part because of this denting, but also because of release consistency.

Obviously, there are situations where you can't pick and choose - you break a ski while on vacation, etc. This was a risk I was willing to accept when buying the Langes. I was however, particularly interested in the Tyrolia Attack demos (WTR & ISO 9523 compatibility), because ON3P runs them in their demo fleet.

I posted a follow-up question in this thread yesterday: (http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...02#post4939002).

Edit: That photo of the heel from the Blister review is pretty extreme, and I seriously doubt it was from the STH2-16 bindings. I initially thought he might have also jammed it into either his Look Pivots or Marker Jesters and wouldn't fess up to it, but the fact that it's only on one side of the heel makes me doubt this.

He's correct that tech fittings technically disqualify a boot from being officially compatible with the ISO 5355/Alpine standard, but he subordinated his mention of toe height adjustiblity (required because of WTR and ISO 9523 rocker). Perhaps this was an oversight, but as a use-case (and considering his discussion of one-boot quivers), I think he should have covered the key WTR issue which is toe height (and bindings which accommodate it).

WTR is the wave of the future, but we're in a transitional stage right now which means some binding selection challenges and a lot of education ;-)

... Thom

[skibass]

They were WTR compatible- that's the reason I selected those skis and the bindings. I was the one that switched them from Alpine to WTR. Definitely, not risking my knee safety by trying to throw WTR sole in a non-WTR binding.

Honestly, I wish that was the case. At this rate, these boots won't last a season. That photo from Blister is nothing compared to what my boots look like. I'll post a few photos. I assume most of the damage is from the pre-releases I had on my first few runs but that seems extremely nontheless.

Assuming the Look 12 bindings you rented aren't indemnified as being WTR compatible, the shop was negligent in not having you sign a waver. If that's the case (non-WTR binding), I don't see Lange as being responsible.

I lose track of which of the softer, lighter plastics is used in which touring boot, but I think the Lange is Grilamid (I think it's mentioned earlier in this thread). In any case, the plastic is a bit softer than polyurethane used in alpine boots, and it and does "dent" a bit with some bindings. This is typical of most touring boots - a trade-off for reduced weight.

If you're jamming it into a non-WTR compatible binding (lower toe height/clearance), I can see where the top lip of the toe might deform. The heel is a bit of a surprise, however. Perhaps someone more familiar with Looks can comment. I had some Marker Dukes that dented the heels of a pair of Garmonts a while back.

WTR compatibility is the main reason I've been cautious about doing a ski demo - in part because of this denting, but also because of release consistency.

Obviously, there are situations where you can't pick and choose - you break a ski while on vacation, etc. This was a risk I was willing to accept when buying the Langes. I was however, particularly interested in the Tyrolia Attack demos (WTR & ISO 9523 compatibility), because ON3P runs them in their demo fleet.

I posted a follow-up question in this thread yesterday: (http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...02#post4939002).

Edit: That photo of the heel from the Blister review is pretty extreme, and I seriously doubt it was from the STH2-16 bindings. I initially thought he might have also jammed it into either his Look Pivots or Marker Jesters and wouldn't fess up to it, but the fact that it's only on one side of the heel makes me doubt this.

He's correct that tech fittings technically disqualify a boot from being officially compatible with the ISO 5355/Alpine standard, but he subordinated his mention of toe height adjustiblity (required because of WTR and ISO 9523 rocker). Perhaps this was an oversight, but as a use-case (and considering his discussion of one-boot quivers), I think he should have covered the key WTR issue which is toe height (and bindings which accommodate it).

WTR is the wave of the future, but we're in a transitional stage right now which means some binding selection challenges and a lot of education ;-)

... Thom

[galibier_numero_un]

Wow! Mine are fine with my Salomon Wardens. Hopefully, you'll get some help since they were WTR bindings.

If you don't get any help from the manufacturers, you could install Dynafit Beast heel fittings. File off the two lumps for binding compatibility.

To reinforce/rebuild the toe, you'd have to get creative, but it's do-able.

... Thom

[anotherVTskibum]

Mine have spent most of their time in non-WTR bindings (STH14s on my all-mountain skis, old Drivers and Atomic 614s on my GS skis, and Tyrolia race bindings on my slalom skis), and I'm not seeing any deformation like that. However, I do have the Beast heel spurs installed, which would seem to mitigate that particular issue (and the heel spurs do show wear at the heel cup contact points).

[dcpnz]

^^^Pics of this boot damage skibass??
If this is a common problem (which so far it doesnt seem to be) it would greatly reduce my interest in this boot. Im already struggling with buying a boot that necessitates new bindings across the quiver.

[galibier_numero_un]

It appears as if poor skibass drew the short straw. Hopefully, Lange will make good on this.

My take is that once you go to rockered soles (whether WTR or ISO 9523), you're "refreshing" your binding quiver.

It kind of sucks. ($$$ buying $$$ and redrilling). I was fortunate (timing wise), because I didn't have any alpine bindings when I began to add onto my tech binding equipped skis. The Warden was already out.

... Thom

[YoEddy]

I had the Salomon Mtn Lab 120 (hated it) and it suffered from the same type of deformation on the heel when used with my Kingpins (!?). I've stuffed my Freetours in Head RD alpine bindings, and Marker Jester Pro's without issue though.

So what does this mean? I have no idea ...

[XavierD]

Mine have been in unmodified P18s, STH16s, Wardens, and Attack Demos. All set at ~12 retention. I have had no such issues. I wonder if there was a bad batch of plastic.

[galibier_numero_un]

Mine have been in unmodified P18s, STH16s, Wardens, and Attack Demos. All set at ~12 retention. I have had no such issues. I wonder if there was a bad batch of plastic.

The Attack demo feedback is greatly appreciated. I've been trying to find out about this for an ON3P demo.

Do you recall if the toe height was adjustable, vs. just jamming the boot in?

Thanks,
Thom

[XavierD]

The Attack demo feedback is greatly appreciated. I've been trying to find out about this for an ON3P demo.

Do you recall if the toe height was adjustable, vs. just jamming the boot in?

Thanks,
Thom

I adjusted the toe height. Never tested for release though

[galibier_numero_un]

I adjusted the toe height. Never tested for release though

Thanks! That's reassuring - both in the near-term (demoing ON3P) as well as the long-term (evidence that WTR and possibly ISO 9523 compatibility with alpine bindings is moving toward the norm).

... Thom

[skibass]

Still waiting to hear back from Lange. It seems that this isn't an uncommon issue per the interweb. I might have had an early batch of plastic or just a bad batch.

Used them today on Kingpins and had similar plastic issues from missed toe locking. It usually takes me a couple tries to get the toes locked in if there is a bit of ice build up and usually one side locks before the other. I toured all day and noticed that if the pins tried to lock outside of the inserts they would cause damage to the plastic.

I still would strongly recommend this boot. It is the ideal solution to have a one boot do it all. It toured great today. Love the Freetour- Kingpin combo. Just wish this part of the plastic wasn't prone to such sensitivity.

[skibass]

[SeatownSlackey]

^^ mine aren't that bad but they are by far and away the lowest durometer ski boot heel/toe I've ever owned. Somewhat concerned about getting 3+ seasons out of these.

Little over 20 days on mine this season 95% of the time in sth 16 or sth2 13 and just a handful in properly height adjusted Lords.

[skibass]

Seatown, I'll trade for your shells ha. Like I said, it looks like I gave a chisel to a kid and said have fun.

I still don't understand how a binding could mangle the toe like that but oh well. Fingers crossed Lange hooks it up.

Good to hear I'm not the only one.

[galibier_numero_un]

Seems as if Marker likes to chew up touring boots. My OG Dukes deformed a pair of Garmont Megaride heels.

There was a time (many, many moons ago) when I really liked Marker.

... Thom

[doebedoe]

Seems as if Marker likes to chew up touring boots. My OG Dukes deformed a pair of Garmont Megaride heels.

There was a time (many, many moons ago) when I really liked Marker.

... Thom

In my experience at least the Royal series requires more forward pressure / heel much tighter in to get correct adjustment than most any other maker (solly, tyrolia, look.) Which is why typically they require more pressure to step into. May have something to do with their affinity for chewing up heels. I've been told that this has to do with the way the Markers' heel pivots vs other makers. But I'm not an engineer so that could all be bullshit.

[XavierD]

After a quick inspection mine are showing more wear thean any other boot I own, but drastically less than any shown here, despite having almost a year of use on them. I wonder if there was a switch in plastic sometime along the production year?

It is worth noting that Marker bindings put a lot of stress and contact on the rear lug of a ski boot.

[gregL]

Mine look about like Seatown's after 20 days or so. FWIW, my Zero G Guide Pros are similar with about 25 days (Atomic Wardens on all alpine skis). Way more deformation than any of my alpine boots after years of use.

Markers have way more forward pressure when set up correctly and barely clear the edge of the heel, so there is that factor.

[galibier_numero_un]

There was a time when I loved Marker - before most of you were born ... the period in the mid-70's with the Rotomats (explode-o-mats) upon the introduction of the M4 toe, on up to the MRR-Racing incarnation.

I dropped out of the alpine scene for about 15 years, and upon fixing my heels back down, I started reading a lot of negatives about Marker, and it came as a surprise.

My only "current" exposure to them has been those OG Dukes, and I couldn't bond with the stack height. I also recall there being extremely little clearance (lip) to grab the heel. What were they thinking ... for a binding designed to work with touring boots and the plastic used in them ???

It's good to have choices, and between Salomon, Look and Tyrolia (on the alpine side), I'm not shedding any tears.

In my experience at least the Royal series requires more forward pressure / heel much tighter in to get correct adjustment than most any other maker (solly, tyrolia, look.) Which is why typically they require more pressure to step into. May have something to do with their affinity for chewing up heels. I've been told that this has to do with the way the Markers' heel pivots vs other makers. But I'm not an engineer so that could all be bullshit.

Mine look about like Seatown's after 20 days or so. FWIW, my Zero G Guide Pros are similar with about 25 days (Atomic Wardens on all alpine skis). Way more deformation than any of my alpine boots after years of use.

Markers have way more forward pressure when set up correctly and barely clear the edge of the heel, so there is that factor.

... Thom

[anotherVTskibum]

Re: wear on contact points, I've got around 50 days on mine, mostly in non-WTR alpine bindings, with minimal DIN contact-point wear; there is a fair bit of plastic wear-and-tear around the pin-contact points, and there's a bit of (not-pictured) sole wear on the bottom that I think is from use in Dynafit bindings (which probably represents about 10 or 12 days of use). Most of the use with alpine DIN bindings has been in either "Fischer" (Tyrolia) race bindings from 2007 or some form of Driver (I've got a pair of old 996s on a pair of GS skis and a pair of STH14s on my all-mountain skis). Dynafit use has generally been short touring outings, although I did get a couple slightly longer tours in recently as well as a couple of lift-served, almost-powder-days on fat boards with Beast 14s.

[wasatchback]

Mine look about like Seatown's after 20 days or so. FWIW, my Zero G Guide Pros are similar with about 25 days (Atomic Wardens on all alpine skis). Way more deformation than any of my alpine boots after years of use.

Markers have way more forward pressure when set up correctly and barely clear the edge of the heel, so there is that factor.

One of the reasons for a change to Grilamid for next year on ZG boots. It's just a harder material. So many people are stuffing these into alpine bindings now that the plastic needs to be harder. This is the biggest issue with lightweight plastic, it's just not as durable. Supposedly Grilamid is that much harder so the toes and heels will not get as deformed over time. This is also why the old Cochise boots had a fully removable sole lug. That way they could inject that part in PU for better durability.

[Breomonkey]

Isn't the Freetour made from grilamid? If I'm reading that previous comment right the technical will be going too a comparable material next season.

[skibrd]

Will using the Kingpin/Beast 16 heel piece stop some of the damage to the heel lip?