2016 Lange XT Freetour

[galibier_numero_un]

YoEddy, Thom, et al: you guys like the forward lean?

It took me a few days to get used to the more upright stance - coming over from my OG Titans. I didn't believe that it would be the case (since I'm old school), but I find that I can engage the front of the ski more quickly. I also transferred my Booster Straps over, and I'm using the spoilers/spacers.

I'm also noticing what folks report about the more upright stance - that my quads tire a bit less. It's been so many years of skiing in a pitched forward stance (both binding ramp angle as well as sole angle), that I occasionally revert, and the boot feels a bit strange, but the adaptation process seems to be occurring.

I've pondered Zipfits (have Powerwraps at the moment), but it's more of a "let's try this out" sort of thing - for when I use the boots strictly inbounds.

I still haven't done the experiment of making up a set of cork boot boards. It'll probably be a few weeks until I get around to it, as I need to pick up some UHMW-PE to form the heel pad section of the board. It's a bit of a complicated shape, and I know it'll be a 2-3 hour project.

... I was a little bummed about the useless cuff alignment because using it compromises the walk mechanism function (they weren't thinking too hard on that), but they're fine without it.

I'm a bit of a "princess and the pea" sort with respect to cuff alignment. I made the ever so slightest adjustment to the left boot. It had to be a small fraction of a degree. I moved the cuff about half the thickness of a Sharpie pen line (looking at the boot and the Sharpie line now - about .035" of cuff movement).

BTW, I don't use the Lange technique where you stand in the boot and flex it while someone else loosens/tightens the bolt. Out of necessity (no willing victim in crime), I scribed a Sharpie line where the cuff meets the lower shell, moved the cuff a bit, locked it down and went skiing (with a hex key in pocket to make further adjustments). Uncharacteristically for me, I got it right on the first try

Now, when initiating right turns, I can engage the new outside ski's edge the same as I can with left turns. Before, I had an excessive left foot stem when starting right turns and it really bugged me. I guess you can count me as a fan ;-)

Cheers,
Thom

[XavierD]

YoEddy, Thom, et al: you guys like the forward lean?

Even on modern skis with flat/minimal camber and mount points around -5 cm from true center, these boots feel very upright to me without modification.

I added Booster straps, 1/8 tognar shims, and heel lifts to my ZipFit WC liners today. Even better heel retention. And to me, more natural forward lean with the heel lifts. Even in the park and skiing switch. Haven't toured with the Bontex shims and heel lifts yet...

I might shave the heel lifts down a bit, but they are definitely staying in this boot for me

Heel lifts won't increase forward lean, and can decrease perceived forward lean.

If the giant spoilers that ship with this boot don't get you enough forward lean I can't help you.

I personally have a ton of discomfort skiing anything with 15deg or more forward lean without heel lifts to decrease dorsiflexion. My instep height makes heel lifts a problem.

I understand everyone prefers different stances but anything over 15deg seems unnecessary to me. If I could have my way all performance boots would come stock at 12-13deg with 2, and 3 deg shims that could be stacked on eachother. Many Italian boot designers disagree with me.

[auvgeek]

^^Agree on all accounts.

[DGamms]

Heel lifts won't increase forward lean, and can decrease perceived forward lean.

If the giant spoilers that ship with this boot don't get you enough forward lean I can't help you.

I personally have a ton of discomfort skiing anything with 15deg or more forward lean without heel lifts to decrease dorsiflexion. My instep height makes heel lifts a problem.

I understand everyone prefers different stances but anything over 15deg seems unnecessary to me. If I could have my way all performance boots would come stock at 12-13deg with 2, and 3 deg shims that could be stacked on eachother. Many Italian boot designers disagree with me.

Thanks Thom and Xavier.

Maybe forward lean isn't the end story for me. Whatever the reason, the boot skied better with Tognar heel lifts and 1/8 Bontex shims added. I run the spoilers, Booster straps, and ZipFit WC with extra OMFIT too.


Pretty sweet one boot quiver for me with all the tweaking. Don't think I'll got back to race/plugs anytime soon

[XavierD]

Thanks Thom and Xavier.

Maybe forward lean isn't the end story for me. Whatever the reason, the boot skied better with Tognar heel lifts and 1/8 Bontex shims added. I run the spoilers, Booster straps, and ZipFit WC with extra OMFIT too.


Pretty sweet one boot quiver for me with all the tweaking. Don't think I'll got back to race/plugs anytime soon

If you are already running the spoilers (for Leg volume or any number of other reasons) the heel lifts (depending on size) will likely help bring your ankle back to the 8deg of stock dorsiflexion, potentially allowing you to get more usable ROM out of your ankle. It will also help the boot engage a little quicker in the flex. They will also shift your weight slightly.

It could be as simple as the bontex and heel lifts taking up volume in the boots. Both the LV and regular Freetours tend to be much higher volume than the Lange RS/RXs they are modeled after.

[YoEddy]

YoEddy, Thom, et al: you guys like the forward lean? ...

Absolutely, but like I said I went through the whole revelation 5 or 6 years ago now when Lange changed to the now current stance. I don't use the spoilers, but like you have WC Booster with Zips.

I like the upright stance so much that I flipped the block on my Vulcans to make them more upright, and even toyed with the idea of customizing a block to allow for more (but decided it wasn't worth it).

[MCskid]

Thom, get zipfits, they will change your life!

[XXX-er]

Absolutely, but like I said I went through the whole revelation 5 or 6 years ago now when Lange changed to the now current stance. I don't use the spoilers, but like you have WC Booster with Zips.

I like the upright stance so much that I flipped the block on my Vulcans to make them more upright, and even toyed with the idea of customizing a block to allow for more (but decided it wasn't worth it).

I also like the more upright stance

I experimented with going more upright cuz a boot fitter/ drinking buddy told me my stance was wrong, he said he could tell cuz my ass stuck out and it put me in the back seat

but you can also get so upright that you can't pressure the front of the boot at all

[rod9301]

Maybe, but 12 degree isn't it.

Pull the feet back and you pressure the tips of the skis. The front of the boot is not what needs to be pressured.

[galibier_numero_un]

... but you can also get so upright that you can't pressure the front of the boot at all

That's how I felt for the first 10K feet, but the adaptation was fairly quick.

Thom, get zipfits, they will change your life!

More stuff to try. It's not as if I don't already have the boot warming bag ;-)

... Thom

[dcpnz]

Both the LV and regular Freetours tend to be much higher volume than the Lange RS/RXs they are modeled after.

Is this shell or liner?

I have regular RX.
Tried the LV freetour thinking we could punch forefoot and i'd get a tighter ankle wrap but it was an instant metatarsel crusher and my neuroma has been irritated ever since so I'm thinking that might not be best plan.
Shop didnt have regular freetour to compare but if its significantly higher volume than regular i wont be buying without trying.

Also anyone opine on stiffness?
I have zipfits in my RX 130 with a booster but one rivet removed.
I figure those changes probably neutralize each other from stock but possibly still a bit stiff on truly cold (below 0F) days.
Since freetour doesn't have rivets i'm wondering if i should drop down to 110 since I'm a lightweight.

[YoEddy]

FWIW the I have LV RS and Freetours and I find the Freetour significantly lower volume. I have to punch them but not the RS.

[rod9301]

Is this shell or liner?
The
I have regular RX.
Tried the LV freetour thinking we could punch forefoot and i'd get a tighter ankle wrap but it was an instant metatarsel crusher and my neuroma has been irritated ever since so I'm thinking that might not be best plan.
Shop didnt have regular freetour to compare but if its significantly higher volume than regular i wont be buying without trying.

Also anyone opine on stiffness?
I have zipfits in my RX 130 with a booster but one rivet removed.
I figure those changes probably neutralize each other from stock but possibly still a bit stiff on truly cold (below 0F) days.
Since freetour doesn't have rivets i'm wondering if i should drop down to 110 since I'm a lightweight.

The freetour is softer than the rx130

[DGamms]

I'd say the flex of the Freetour XT 130 LV is similar to my prior Fischer Ranger Pros (stated 130 flex) and my prior Tecnica R9.5 110s (stated 110 flex).

The Freetour 130s are probably more like a forgiving 110-120 compared to true race boots. But the Freetours are plenty stiff for me at 150 lbs, and drive heavy skis from 100-130 mm underfoot in the resort no problem.

Forward flex seems to depend a lot on how tightly you buckle too. No more than other boots, but it's noticeable. As Thom said above, the Freetours stiffness in forward flex is quite stable over a range of temperatures, much more so than my old Cochise 130 Pros, Fischer Ranger Pros, Tecnica R9.5 110s, and Dynafit TLT6Ps.

[Breomonkey]

Pondering a thought this AM. I suppose you could soften these just like a standard boot by trimming the u shape if necessary. Or would this impact the walk mode?

Any flex comparisons of the 110? The previous post lends me to believe they might be fairly soft.

[rod9301]

Pondering a thought this AM. I suppose you could soften these just like a standard boot by trimming the u shape if necessary. Or would this impact the walk mode?

Any flex comparisons of the 110? The previous post lends me to believe they might be fairly soft.

I tried the 110 in the shop. Didn't feel much softer than the 130.

[XavierD]

I tried the 110 in the shop. Didn't feel much softer than the 130.

The 130 pretty much doubles in stiffness between ~70deg and ~20deg. It is plenty stiff at 10d F.

[rod9301]

How will the 110 feel at low temps?

[anotherVTskibum]

I was a little bummed about the useless cuff alignment because using it compromises the walk mechanism function (they weren't thinking too hard on that), but they're fine without it.

a) can you elaborate on how it compromises the walk mechanism?
b) what makes you call it "useless"? It seems to work as well as any other cuff adjustment I've used, and tweaking the cuff on my left boot out definitely resulted in a better match to my biomechanical reality.

[YoEddy]

Sure - I should have elaborated that the cuff adjustment is useless for me.

If you adjust the cuff minimally like you have then they're likely fine, but if you want to run the cuff all the way at the bottom of the range (i.e. the most cuff cant possible) then the walk mechanism jams against the cuff 'mechanism pocket' and will not move from walk to ski mode nor from ski to walk mode without some serious pounding, coaxing and fiddling.

However, beyond that it also provides a fairly small amount of adjustment with just the lateral side being adjustable. Boots that have both lateral and medial have more adjustment, but in this case the walk mechanism pocket would have to be substantially larger.

[skibrd]

After 4 years of trying to get Dynafit Vulcans, Mercurys, and TLT6Ps to work, along with CAST S&I installed in my RS140s, I got a pair of FreeTour 130s and all I can say is HOT DAMN!!!! These boots are awesome. Skinned 5-6 miles and they were awesome on the up, definitely a little heavier then my TLT6Ps, but I didn't notice. On the way down, they were worth every single extra ounce! I was able to ski comfortably, hard, and drive my skis correctly.

Now saying that, I did have to rock back and forth an extra time to get the lock mechanism to catch, no biggie because I kept and eye on it.

Question about the cant mechanism for the cuff, how does canting the cuff effect the locking mechanism? I left it at zero for today, but ski my RS140s max canted in, and would like to set both boots up the same.

[galibier_numero_un]

... Question about the cant mechanism for the cuff, how does canting the cuff effect the locking mechanism? I left it at zero for today, but ski my RS140s max canted in, and would like to set both boots up the same.

Parts alignment, according to the second paragraph in the post immediately before yours.

... Thom

[skibrd]

Parts alignment, according to the second paragraph in the post immediately before yours.

... Thom

Kk. My bad for not reading

[galibier_numero_un]

Something I excel at ... not reading ;-)

[skibass]

I was wondering if anyone has experienced durability issues- particularly in the toe and heel of the Freetour?

I unfortunately had to hope on some rental sticks today (thanks UPS). A set of Sky 7 with Look 12 Demo bindings. Had a few early releases out of the binding early in the am but quickly sorted it out after a few runs. By the end of the day, I looked at my boots and it looks as if my someone took a machete to my toe and heel inserts- almost to the point of them being unusable (not really, but kind of). I immediately assumed it was the bindings, but I just don't understand how they could have caused this kind of damage. It looks like I handed a 5 year old a chisel and said have fun...

Of course the rental company is assuming no fault and says its all user damage ... I sent an email to Lange showing them the pictures but I have a feeling they are going to blame the bindings.

Anyone have issues like this?