2016 Lange XT Freetour

[YoEddy]

I set the cuff alignment all the way out as far as it would go before I even skied the boot, but then noticed the walk/ski mechanism doesn't engage or disengage. Me thinks there is a limit.

[galibier_numero_un]

Thanks for reminding me to check!

...Thom

[DGamms]

I've put another 4 days in on my Freetour 130 LVs.

Release in old STHs: seems fine. I tried a bunch of ugly 180s and 360s in the baby park and released appropriately

With Zipfits: slightly better heel hold with WC Zipfits 27 (compared to stock liner) in a 26.5 shell. With my flat foot, I have a little too much space up and down with both liners. I might try a Bontex shim next. As an aside, the stock liners for the Langes fit my 26.5 TLT6Ps really well. I like the Freetour liners much better than the stock Dynafit Liners or the Intuition ProTongue. I might keep that setup for long/multi day tours

One boot quiver: yeah, I'm leaning towards selling my Fischer Ranger Pro alpine boots. The sweet progressive forward flex of the Fischers is the only advantage over the Freetours. And it's close enough that it's probably not worth owning both. Again, I might keep the TLT6Ps for a lighter touring setup, since the Langes with Zipfits and footbeds come in around 1900 gm, and the TLT6Ps with the Freetour liners + Booster straps are around 1250 gm

[galibier_numero_un]

It's been a slow start to the season for me and I have only two days on mine. The left boot cuff angle change worked wonders, and it wasn't all that much of an adjustment. I'd estimate 1/2 degree. Now, my left inside edge engagement (start of right turns) is the same as that of my other foot.

I've been skiing boots with a higher ramp angle, but by the middle of day 2, I started to find the front of my skis. These boots have a very sweet flex profile and I've adapted to the new stance. I see what people are talking about, in terms of less stress on the quads with a flatter ramp angle.

I'll no doubt avoid the I-70 corridor through the holi-daze, and will do some human powered travel on my Maestrales, but will pick up the Lange project next week.

What remains (fit-wise) is to relieve a bit of downward pressure on the top of my right toes. I can see that being a problem in single digit temperatures. There's plenty of width and length and I just about have comfortable wiggle room with the bottom buckle unfastened. The loosest setting on the buckle (with the bail fully extended) is about half a notch too tight.

Larry told me (today) to not grind the boot board down - that he has a few other things to do which won't risk changing the ramp angle. I was only thinking of grinding the board down in the toe area but he recommended following his course of action. He's never steered me wrong.

Edit: We stretched the toes of my Powerwrap liners which were never molded to these boots - heating the toes of the Intuitions with a heat gun, then inserting them into the shell and stretching them with a hydrolic press.

I got a bit more room, and will give them a few days before doing anything more extreme. They're really close now, and I'm a big fan of incrementally getting there (so I don't overshoot the mark).

I also noticed that the boot boards have some built in ramp angle. I had been pondering (if necessary), experimenting with some UHMW-PE (cutting board material) - making a second set of boot boards. That's a bit of work - grinding it down to match the Lange boards' profile (and getting it right), and I doubt I'll need to take such extreme measures. I doubt it will come to this, but if it does, I'll do that rather than to experiment with the stock boards.

Cheers,
Thom

[kevino]

Anyone have issues with ice/snow build up in the ski/walk mechanism not allowing the ski more to engage? Happened again to me yesterday, second time.

[DGamms]

No issues with ski/walk mode so far. But I only have two touring days on them (plus eight resort days).

[anotherVTskibum]

I haven't had any issues with ski/walk mode, aside from forgetting to switch to walk mode before unbuckling to take the boots off.

At this point, I've got about 24 or 25 days on mine, and I'm very happy with them. Of those days, I think three or four were touring, one was a mixed day (pre-lift skin followed by lift-served for a few hours), and the rest were lift-served. I coach ski racing, so a fair bit of time on many of those lift-served days involved standing on the side of the hill in walk mode, and I have yet to have any trouble getting them back to ski mode.

Overall, I love the way they ski. I haven't been in a race boot since about 2002, but these ski the way I remember race boots skiing. Combined with a pair of race skis, there's not a whole lot of forgiveness in the system—power is transmitted where you put it, whether or not that happens to be where you meant to. I did not go with the low-volume version; the bootfitter didn't think my feet looked low-volume, and I'm generally inclined to agree. The fit of the larger last feels significantly bigger than the Factors did, despite a smaller nominal width—I've been skiing in actual ski socks this year for the first time in years (neither my Factors, nor my BD tele boots, nor my Garmonts before the Factors provided enough space to go beyond a liner sock).

I haven't done any long tours, but into the 1.5-2 hour range, they seem to work pretty damn well for skinning. As far as overall comfort, I have no problem wearing them all day, and I'm rarely in a hurry to get them off at the end of the day.

Inserting and removing my feet has proven to be the biggest challenge, particularly when the boots are cold. I've got a 15-20 minute drive to the local ski hill, and if I don't run the heat in the car, that's enough at our current, single-digit-below-zero temps to make the shells firm up enough for entry to be very, very difficult. Removal is a bit of effort but not as bad as entry. I am wearing the liners with the laces installed, which (due in part to complications with my footbeds) requires inserting the liner with my foot already installed in it. Driving in them is a fairly effective workaround, but it makes using the clutch smoothly a lot more difficult. I'm pretty sure I would have trouble winter camping if I left the shells outside the tent overnight; YMMV.

[AyoBeng]

Anyone have issues with ice/snow build up in the ski/walk mechanism not allowing the ski more to engage? Happened again to me yesterday, second time.

I haven't skied the freetour but this used to happen with my older XTs all the time in the right snow conditions.

[YoEddy]

Sizing/fit: I went with a 27.5 ... These boots fit significantly larger than my pair of 27.5 RX 130 LV I was skiing in last year. Other than a small ankle punch to fit into the heel pocket a little better, all I needed was a thermomold with a thick toe cap to fit the XT 130. My 27.5 RX 130s required quite a bit more work. ...

This shows you how different feet can be! I have 29.5 in both the XT Freetour and the RS 140 (only LV), and have the complete opposite fit where the XT is significantly smaller. I have "1 finger" fit in both, but will definitely need to blow out the XT across the entire lateral side and possibly even at the ankle.

[Choucas]

Recent AT boot history is Titans, 1st gen Cochise 120 with their Palau liner, Scarpa MaestraleRS. I have to say that none of them were anywhere near as comfortable as an alpine boot and none skied anywhere near the level of an alpine boot. Yesterday I finally gave up on the Scarpas after 2+ years of fit frustration/foot pain with more trips to noted boot gurus than I care to remember. I went to my local shop to buy either a Tecnica Zero G Guide (green one) or the Lange XT Freetour 110. I ski in a Mach 1 MV 130 in a 26.5 and love everything about it. My preference was for the Zero G and first impression was very positive. Nothing not to like. Put the Freetour 110 on the other foot, and had much the same impression as the Tecnica. Great fit, comfortable, nice flex. Bounced back and forth between the two (both 26.5). Tecnica felt better overall until I put my insoles in and then the Lange became the winner by a small margin in the comfort category. I could have been very happy in either boot. I liked stance and feel of the Lange better and have always liked the way a Lange skied. Liners baked and bindings adjusted and out the door I go.
Skied them today on piste on my touring set up (last year's Fischer Ranger 98's and black Vipecs). Very happy with the results. Boot flex matches up well with the soft flexing Fischers. I'll do a climb in them tomorrow. Big improvement in skiability over the Scarpas. The Grilamid has a harsher feel than PU which I disliked in the Scarpas. In the Langes, there is still some of that harsh fee vs. the more subtle feel that you get out of a PU boot, but nowhere near the level of the Scarpas. I have not used the laces, but will play around with them for climbing. With the top buckles loose and the power strap undone, the laces should help keep my foot from moving around while climbing.

[DGamms]

Choucas, have you tried them in alpine binders? The harshness you describe is not something I feel in STH14s with the XT 130 LV and ZipFit liners. I guess they aren't quite as progressive in forward flex as my last few PU alpine boots, but the difference is subtle. I still notice the slight lack of stiffness in rearward flex from time to time in the resort, but it's also subtle enough that I haven't reached for my fixed cuff alpine boot for the last 10+ resort days this year.

[Choucas]

This is a first impression. Skiing on rock hard Vermont piste with soft flexing skis. Stock liners. Not a complaint, just the only difference in feel (and a slight one) that I felt between the XT110 and my Mach 1's. There's clearly a flex difference between the two which is sort of factored in. Take away is that I'm super happy with going this route. I think I'll like them more and more as I get more miles on them. Out for a first climb in them today.

[galibier_numero_un]

I'm getting to know my XT-130 Freetours, in the context of Intuition Powerwrap liners. The liners were transferred from my OG Titans without re-molding, although my boot guy gave me some more toe room by heating the toes in the liners with a heat gun and punching them out with a hydraulic boot press (while inserted in the shell).

I've now skied them in temperature ranges from -10F to +30F. The flex is extremely stable over this wide range of temperatures and it has very sweet flex profile. From a flex perspective, these are the most temperature stable boots I've ever skied, although my experience range (of boots) is somewhat limited in the context of the gear heads on this forum. Harsh is the last word I'd use to describe the XT-130 Freetours (I'm 5' 8", 170 Lbs.).

Getting used to the flat "Lange stance" took me 5 or 6 hours of turning in order to find the tips of my Praxis GPOs. Adaptation was pretty quick, and once I did, I felt quicker on my feet. I have zero problems with support from the rear, but then again, this has never been an issue for me with any boot. At the end of the ski day, they help me recover from backseat mistakes, and "requiring" any more than this would be unfairly blaming the tool, when the craftsman is at fault.

I have difficulty assessing their overall stiffness in terms of establishing a flex # other than to say that I love it. For me, perceived stiffness is due to several things - including (but not limited to) the amount of shin bang I experience, and how quickly I can engage the front of the ski.

Too much shin bang will make a boot feel too stiff to me. My OG Titans always dug into my shin, and when they got marginally stiffer in single digit (Farrenheit) temps, it really caught my attention. About two years ago, I posted a question about softening the Titans' forward flex because of this. I never ended up softening them, as I eventually found I could tame this to a large extent by balancing the tension on the 3rd and 4th buckles. They continued to be finicky, and this never fully disappeared in cold temperatures.

With respect to shin bang, the XT-130 Freetours are very comfortable, and my initial perception was that they're not much stiffer than my OG Titans. As I ski them more, I believe they are, however.

As far as how quickly I engage the front of the ski, this gets a bit tricky, because the flatter stance in the Langes comes into play. I believe the stance has a lot to do with the considerable difference between how quickly I can engage the tips with the XT-130's (in comparison with the OG Titans). In contrast, I engage my skis similarly with my OG Titans and mango Maestrales - this, in spite of the Maestrales being softer. I seem to compensate easily to the stiffness difference between the two, and work the skis in a similar way. This is where I believe the stance difference of the Lange comes into play.

I think all of this points toward the stance change being a major factor, and it might lead you to believe that a boot is stiffer if you use "quickness" or tip engagement as criteria.

Last Spring, I began to familiarize myself with a new (to me) pair of Down CD 102's (mounted with Vipecs). Skiing them with my Mango Maestrales, they felt a bit grabby and slow to engage. This was with a 1/1 tune I laid on them, although I was still exploring how far to de-tune the tips. Over the Summer, I took the de-tune back an additional 1.5". Last weekend, I took them on a short tour with the Langes - as much to see how the Langes toured in comparison with the Titans as anything else (fine). The few turns I squeezed in, the skis felt almost too "swively" underfoot. This felt like much more than the extended de-tune. Given their touring application, I think that the Downs are a good match for the Maestrales, and I'll explore this further in the Down thread.

My point here is more about how the Langes engage the front of the ski very efficiently, and not so much about the Downs, and in composing this, I'm coming to think that the stance change is a major contributor. I'm sold on a flatter stance.

... Thom

[DGamms]

Thom, your ability to nerd out on boot minutiae surpasses mine.

I agree though, overall they ski great. I got out for pre-work laps in 20" of dense pow this AM at Park City, and the Freetour LVs drove my Volkl Twos through pow and dense chop without flinching.

For those that are thinking of running these with old STHs, one word of warning. I ripped the brake out of the heel pedestal on both skis when using the Lange Freetour XTs with STH14s in the park. Not sure if it was just that the bindings are old, or that the increased friction of the WTR sole produces too much torque on the old STHs when landing spins (ugly 180s mostly).

[galibier_numero_un]

Thom, your ability to nerd out on boot minutiae surpasses mine ...

It's a blessing and a curse. I don't know if I could ski on gear that hasn't been fleshed out - whether it be a poorly tuned ski or boots that aren't dialed in. I couldn't believe the difference a minute cuff adjustment made (left boot only) - I'm guessing less than 1/4 degree - the thickness of one and a half lines traced out with a fine-tipped Sharpie pen.

Before adjusting the cuff, I scribed a line on the lower shell - following the line of the cuff. The width of the mark is about .025" (I just measured it). I moved the cuff about this distance, and all of a sudden, my edge change was symmetrical (left turn/right turn).

You bring up an excellent point. The confidence I have in pushing through chopped up snow is amazing. With these boots and a pair of Billy Goats, I have delusions of being a good skier ;-)

... Thom

[Choucas]

Very happy with the way the boots toured. No, not as much range of motion as the Scarpas, but unless you're doing a lot of traveling on the flats, it doesn't make much difference. Super comfortable, no rubbing, hot spots on a 2,000 foot climb. Used the laces, which work fine and do not restrict getting in/out. I slid a pair of custom foamed touring liners in them that I had made for my old Chochises. Yet to ski them, but they feel great and give the boot an even smoother forward flex and tighter fit around ankle/shin. More on this combo after a few days of skiing.

[Breomonkey]

Looking at these the and wondering if i should track down a 110 or 130 flex? My old K2 Spynes were a 110, but reportedly stiff vs. the number. The answer is probably 130 and soften if necessary, but figured I'd inquire for those who've had some experience with them.

Also, how would you rate the flex vs. the new Cochise. Hoping to get them on side by side at some point soon.

[skibass]

I just picked up a pair of freetours after a rough time with boots this season. I tried both the freetours and the cochise (both 130s) in the shop and the cochise definitely had a softer flex no doubt. They may stiffen up in on-slope temps but they were too soft for my liking.

Love the freetours. I went the surefoot way and had to blow out the LV but am really pleased with the performance.

[DGamms]

I added 1.5 sticks OMFit per liner in my WC ZipFits and Lange XT 130s LV. The fit around the instep and ankle/heel is so awesome. I could still maybe add a thin Bontex shin to take up a little vertical volume, but the fit of the lower shell is nearly perfect.

As an alpine boot, my only complaint now is the forward lean. For the skinny calf skier, this is a very upright boot even with the spoiler added. I think the slight give in rearward support I had commented on earlier is actually just the feeling of a very upright vertical lean and a skinny leg. There is a hard stop rearward, I just wish it occurred a little earlier/in a more forward position.

Any boot nerds have a good tip on increasing forward lean? Maybe just a super thick spoiler?

[galibier_numero_un]

Looking at these the and wondering if i should track down a 110 or 130 flex? My old K2 Spynes were a 110, but reportedly stiff vs. the number. The answer is probably 130 and soften if necessary, but figured I'd inquire for those who've had some experience with them.

Also, how would you rate the flex vs. the new Cochise. Hoping to get them on side by side at some point soon.

I don't have on slope experience with the Cochises, and I don't know if this helps, but I've skied in my Freetour 130's over a range of temperatures from 30F down to -10F and they did not get appreciably stiffer (if at all) when the temperature dropped to -10.

Cheers,
Thom

[skibrd]

Ordered a pair, tired of my Dynafits crushing my toes and my toes being numb for a day after I take them off

[YoEddy]

My $0.02 is that the Freetour is the closest thing to the 'holy grail' of boots I have found yet. By comparison I have the original Vulcan that I'll keep for multi-day tours because they're lighter and more uphill oriented, but the Freetour isn't bad at all uphill (that said I'm not a long strider) and the best skiing AT boot I have ever tried.

They ski similarly to the Lange RS 130 in the forward flex & laterally albeit with a noticeable loss of immediate transmission, but also definitely weaker rearward. I also use it as a coaching boot, and since they have the same BSL as the RS I step right into my race skis, which is where they are noticeably not a race boot, but I can live with that as I generally don't climb to ski on boilerplate.

I had to punch the toes even though I don't have to for the RS's. They're also narrower mid-foot than the 97mm last belies, but not terribly so. I run Zipfits in both, but the RS's needed more cork (1.5 tubes per boot) whereas the Freetours are tight with the stock amount of cork.

I was a little bummed about the useless cuff alignment because using it compromises the walk mechanism function (they weren't thinking too hard on that), but they're fine without it.

I really like the upright stance, but I've been on the RS for 5 years now. It shouldn't take that much to adapt to, and it ultimately provides more usable power.

<end blog>

[Breomonkey]

What bindings are you wedging them into on the race skis? Assume your going a bit cowboy here vs running a ID/mnc binding on the race ski.

[YoEddy]

Cramming them into Head RD 16's without so much as a toe height adjustment. Bahhhhh - they work fine

[DGamms]

YoEddy, Thom, et al: you guys like the forward lean?

Even on modern skis with flat/minimal camber and mount points around -5 cm from true center, these boots feel very upright to me without modification.

I added Booster straps, 1/8 tognar shims, and heel lifts to my ZipFit WC liners today. Even better heel retention. And to me, more natural forward lean with the heel lifts. Even in the park and skiing switch. Haven't toured with the Bontex shims and heel lifts yet...

I might shave the heel lifts down a bit, but they are definitely staying in this boot for me